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Old 19th October 2016, 15:04   #25061  |  Link
bfrqrv
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Error in attempt to multiplex

Hello,

I hope someone can help me with this one. I don't think its very difficult but I can't find the reason for quiet a few days now.
I try to explain what I do.

I extract 3D iso files to BDMV
After thata I give it to BD Rebuilder, and most of the times it is perfect. But sometimes I get this error. Its strange because sometimes I can do the same iso with succes. I mean the very same iso that was wrong yesterday. I show you the log. It looks like some files are occupied but I close all the program's that can interfere.

10-19-16] BD Rebuilder v0.50.18
[15:32:18] Source: 80GB
- Input BD size: 45,74 GB
- Approximate total content: [03:44:16.567]
- Target BD size: 46,26 GB
- Windows Version: 6.2 [9200]
- Quality: Good (Very Fast), ABR
- MVC 3D Output Mode enabled
- Decoding/Frame serving: FRIMDecode
- Audio Settings: AC3=0 DTS=0 HD=1 Kbs=640
[15:32:18] PHASE ONE, Encoding
- [15:32:18] Processing: VID_00469 (1 of 22)
- [15:32:18] Extracting A/V streams [VID_00469]
- [15:32:45] Reencoding video [VID_00469]
- [15:32:45] Keeping original video (no reencode)
- [15:32:45] Processing audio tracks
- Track 4352 (eng): Keeping original audio
- [15:32:46] Multiplexing M2TS
- [15:33:13] Processing: VID_00473 (2 of 22)
- [15:33:13] Extracting A/V streams [VID_00473]
- [15:33:23] Reencoding video [VID_00473]
- [15:33:23] Keeping original video (no reencode)
- [15:33:23] Processing audio tracks
- Track 4352 (eng): Keeping original audio
- [15:33:23] Multiplexing M2TS
- [15:33:32] Processing: VID_00474 (3 of 22)
- [15:33:32] Extracting A/V streams [VID_00474]
- [15:49:01] Reencoding video [VID_00474]
- [15:49:01] Keeping original video (no reencode)
- [15:49:01] Processing audio tracks
- Track 4352 (eng): Keeping original audio
- [15:49:01] Multiplexing M2TS
- Error in attempt to multiplex: MUX_00474.meta
- Can't open file: F:\REMUXED\WORKFILES\00475.track_4114.mvc
[15:49:04] - Failed to build structure, aborted

I like this program so much that I must find the reason why this is happening.
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Old 19th October 2016, 16:24   #25062  |  Link
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You don't extract 3D iso's. Doing that risks corrupting the file structure and make it twice the iso size. Which is exactly what happened.

Quote:
[15:32:18] Source: 80GB
- Input BD size: 45,74 GB
You MOUNT the 3D iso in something like Virtual Clone Drive, and point the BDRB to the virtual drive.
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Old 19th October 2016, 17:10   #25063  |  Link
bfrqrv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ch3vr0n View Post
You don't extract 3D iso's. Doing that risks corrupting the file structure and make it twice the iso size. Which is exactly what happened.



You MOUNT the 3D iso in something like Virtual Clone Drive, and point the BDRB to the virtual drive.
Almost good but not totally right I think. I extract the iso and I call the map 80GB because I knwo the ISO will expand when you do that with 3d ISO. But the structure isnt ruined that way. And like I said sometimes the same movie with the same routing (extract) is not giving the error. So there must be another factor. I extract with winrar, windows, poweriso, thats not the issue. I think the file is occupied, but can someone confirm that looking at the error?

ps. I forgot telling you why I extract. I insert a subtitle file after the bdmv is made. There is no other way to to that then first extract. after that I have the good working movie with my subs, but I want it to be smaller again like 50GB or 25 GB. That is working but not each time with exact the same movie and procedure.

Last edited by bfrqrv; 19th October 2016 at 17:13. Reason: forgot
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Old 19th October 2016, 18:05   #25064  |  Link
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There is another way. When the stream is demuxed, you abort the encode before remuxing is done and replace the stream. Either way you don't extract a 3d ssif structure to folders. A 45gb iso can easily grid to 1.5 or twice the size.

It's up to you.
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Old 19th October 2016, 18:07   #25065  |  Link
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All I can tell you is that it looks like F:\REMUXED\WORKFILES\00475.track_4114.mvc doesn't exist when BD-RB tries to remux.
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Old 19th October 2016, 18:20   #25066  |  Link
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Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
All I can tell you is that it looks like F:\REMUXED\WORKFILES\00475.track_4114.mvc doesn't exist when BD-RB tries to remux.
I must replace more then only the stream when I want to do the trick for a full menu bluray. But thx Ch3vr0n.

The analyse of jdobbs is almost equeal as mine conclusion. I think it does exists but has a rights issue or that the file is occupied. I try to restart the system before I give it to BD Rebuilder and hope it will work.
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Old 19th October 2016, 20:03   #25067  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Lathe View Post
Heh, 2.58, NOT 2.8... yeah, I am indeed an idiot... GEEZ...
2.5.8, not 2.58.
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Like you were saying (and MAN do I wish I had your understanding of the 'pulldowns' Inverse Telecine', etc. I don't have a bloody clue!) But, I will keep reading until either I learn, go blind, or go sterile...
Read the wiki info on pulldown.

IVTC is the method by which the four original frames are extracted from the five frames in order to get back to 23.976. The exact method by which the AVISynth plugin does that is beyond the scope of this forum.
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Old 19th October 2016, 20:22   #25068  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lathe View Post
I took Sharc's suggestion and ran my old movie capture clip through BDRB using the inverse telecine script in the ini (I STILL don't really understand what that does...) and I set it to make the movie 1280x720, and WOW! Damn does it look better!
Yes, 23.976 playback looks better than 2:3 pulldown 29.97 playback. There is always that "judder" with the 29.97 video. Wasn't as bad when displayed on old interlaced analog TVs. With digital display, not so much. Hence the reason I convert all 29.97 pulldown video back to 23.976 before watching it.

BTW here is the code segment that does the work:
Code:
assumetff()
telecide(guide=0)
decimate()
Jdobbs should be doing something along those lines.

Last edited by MrVideo; 19th October 2016 at 20:26.
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Old 19th October 2016, 21:22   #25069  |  Link
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Originally Posted by MrVideo View Post
Jdobbs should be doing something along those lines.
BD-RB already does. Look at SETUP. You can also choose between iVTC with DECOMB (telecide/decimate) or TIVTC. You can also force inverse telecining on hard-telecined sources.
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Old 19th October 2016, 22:20   #25070  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrVideo View Post
2.5.8, not 2.58.
I'm really gonna hafta hurt ya man..

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrVideo View Post
Read the wiki info on pulldown.

IVTC is the method by which the four original frames are extracted from the five frames in order to get back to 23.976. The exact method by which the AVISynth plugin does that is beyond the scope of this forum.
Yes, I'm going to read more about that, but I'm STARTING to get the general idea, thanks.

Yes JD, this is the script BDRB used and you can be dang sure I copied it and put it in my AV encoding folder!

LoadPlugin("D:\EXECUTABLES\BD-RBV05018\BD_Rebuilder\tools\decomb521.dll")
ConvertToYV12()
Telecide(order=1,guide=1)
Decimate(cycle=5)
Spline16Resize(960,720).Addborders(160,0,160,0)
ConvertToYV12().AssumeFPS(24000,1001)
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Old 19th October 2016, 22:34   #25071  |  Link
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Like I said, it is something that you should be doing and you are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
You can also force inverse telecining on hard-telecined sources.
Wouldn't you want to do that anyway? I do. The playback results are visually so much better.

Every scripted TV show that is broadcast is sourced from 23.976 edited material and broadcast hard coded. The only exception that I have found (I'm sure there are others) are that shows like Game of Thrones on HBO, which are sent out soft telecined. But, editing programs like VideoReDo use those flags, which results in the edited output being 29.97 with hard telecine. I do not think I've ever recoded video that was soft telecined. All my videos go thru VideoReDo, so I've never had any weird results with recoding.
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Old 19th October 2016, 23:39   #25072  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdobbs

You can also force inverse telecining on hard-telecined sources.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MrVideo View Post

Wouldn't you want to do that anyway? I do. The playback results are visually so much better.

Every scripted TV show that is broadcast is sourced from 23.976 edited material and broadcast hard coded. The only exception that I have found (I'm sure there are others) are that shows like Game of Thrones on HBO, which are sent out soft telecined. But, editing programs like VideoReDo use those flags, which results in the edited output being 29.97 with hard telecine. I do not think I've ever recoded video that was soft telecined. All my videos go thru VideoReDo, so I've never had any weird results with recoding.
Very interesting and good to know, since the prints that I do have where I have to do all this stuff are indeed captured broadcasts in most cases, so it would be good to know what to do with those to improve them. Of course most of my movie collection (over 7500 films now) are concentrated with Blu-rays and when necessary DVDs. But, I have a small number of very rare and commercially unavailable films, and these are the ones that I am trying to concentrate on now and learn about Avisynth.

Well, not to take up too much space here on this thread, but that is definitely one of the things I need to read about because I have NO idea what 'hard telecining' is...

But, I will go and look it up now
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Old 20th October 2016, 00:39   #25073  |  Link
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Like I said, it is something that you should be doing and you are.

Wouldn't you want to do that anyway? I do. The playback results are visually so much better.

Every scripted TV show that is broadcast is sourced from 23.976 edited material and broadcast hard coded. The only exception that I have found (I'm sure there are others) are that shows like Game of Thrones on HBO, which are sent out soft telecined. But, editing programs like VideoReDo use those flags, which results in the edited output being 29.97 with hard telecine. I do not think I've ever recoded video that was soft telecined. All my videos go thru VideoReDo, so I've never had any weird results with recoding.
You have to be careful because the Blu-Ray standard doesn't include 720x480/576 @ 23.976 for primary video -- so to strictly meet the standard you have to include the telecining. With that said, though, I have yet to see a player that won't play it.

Never reencoded soft telecining? That includes about 99% of all movies encoded at 720x480/576 (DVD). Telecining on HD is rare -- except maybe on video captures. I'm not sure I've ever seen it on BD sources.
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Old 20th October 2016, 01:14   #25074  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
You have to be careful because the Blu-Ray standard doesn't include 720x480/576 @ 23.976 for primary video -- so to strictly meet the standard you have to include the telecining. With that said, though, I have yet to see a player that won't play it.

Never reencoded soft telecining? That includes about 99% of all movies encoded at 720x480/576 (DVD). Telecining on HD is rare -- except maybe on video captures. I'm not sure I've ever seen it on BD sources.
That's good to keep in mind, thanks JD. I don't quite have a handle on all this telecining yet, but from what I've heard / read so far, and what you just said, it sounds like standard DVDs (NTSC I'm guessing) from what I've seen in MediaInfo from their rips, look like they are at a 29.xxx frame rate, which I'm GUESSING the telecining has something to do with being at that frame rate and still being progressive. So, now that I know that the telecine thing is mainly related to DVDs (their captures and rips) that helps me see where it needs to be applied.
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Old 20th October 2016, 06:55   #25075  |  Link
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Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
You have to be careful because the Blu-Ray standard doesn't include 720x480/576 @ 23.976 for primary video -- so to strictly meet the standard you have to include the telecining. With that said, though, I have yet to see a player that won't play it.
That is because today's Blu-ray players will play all sorts of input wrapper types and frame rates. Since the hardware will already do it, it doesn't care if the source is even Blu-rays. Probably easier to just let it play it than it is to restrict it from playing, just because it isn't in the Blu-ray standard.
Quote:
Never reencoded soft telecining? That includes about 99% of all movies encoded at 720x480/576 (DVD). Telecining on HD is rare -- except maybe on video captures. I'm not sure I've ever seen it on BD sources.
I've never had any reason to take DVD video and recode for H.264. Nothing to gain from doing so. If I pull anything from DVD, it goes thru VRD, so any telecine flagging is honored.

It turns out that the Blu-ray standard does contain the ability to have 2:3 pulldown instructions for 720 and 1080 23.976 source material for 29.97 playback, depending on the connection and display type. I've certainly never seen VRD indicate that it has ever come across said material. Considering that the analog sunset clause has come about, new Blu-ray players can only have HDMI output connectors, meaning that displays have to honor 23.976 HD video.

I'm more pissed at the FCC for not shifting the audio subcarrier when color was defined, in order to keep true 30 frames/sec display rates. Where is that time machine when you really need it?
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Old 20th October 2016, 07:07   #25076  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Lathe View Post
I don't quite have a handle on all this telecining yet, but from what I've heard / read so far, and what you just said, it sounds like standard DVDs (NTSC I'm guessing) from what I've seen in MediaInfo from their rips, look like they are at a 29.xxx frame rate, which I'm GUESSING the telecining has something to do with being at that frame rate and still being progressive.
You can't have 2:3 pulldown video and still be progressive @ 29.97 frames/sec. 2:3 pulldown @ 29.97 frames/sec requires interlaced video @ 59.94 fields/sec.

29.97p broadcast doesn't exist. Nor does 29.97p exist for Blu-ray.
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Old 20th October 2016, 07:50   #25077  |  Link
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So, if I may please, just let me ask one thing about this...

Here are the specs basically for most of the files I will be dealing with. They are mostly captured to dvd on the fly I believe:

Video
ID : 1
ID in the original source medium : 224 (0xE0)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@Main
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Custom
Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=15
Format settings, picture structure : Frame
Codec ID : V_MPEG2
Codec ID/Info : MPEG 1 or 2 Video
Duration : 1 h 14 min
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 4 810 kb/s
Maximum bit rate : 9 200 kb/s
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Standard : NTSC
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Top Field First
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.464
Time code of first frame : 00:00:18;00
Time code source : Group of pictures header
GOP, Open/Closed : Open
Stream size : 2.49 GiB (95%)
Language : English
Default : No
Forced : No

So, without all the technical stuff in the last few posts here, can you please just tell me what I should do first. I DO (I think...) want to convert them into a progressive format. I can see here that these are indeed interlaced like you said in the last post.

Do I do what Sharc suggested for the other file? Do I just import the MKV into BDRB and let it do it's inverse telecine thing like I posted before and have BDRB convert it to 1280x720 like the other file that came out so nice. That is the final format that I want these in, so that they ARE indeed Blu-ray complaint and will play normally like any other disc. I do NOT want to mess around with software players, etc. like you were talking about. I just want to end up with a nice, normal, Blu-ray complaint file. Is that what I should do then to get the file into a nice, 23.xxx progressive format so that I can get rid of all the combing, etc or whatever when it's interlaced? Then won't it be easier if I simply want to either manipulate it further using Avisynth, or just simply burn it to disc and play it on my OPPO?

Please, keep it simple... I haven't really understood all the technical complexity you guys have been talking about (yet...)
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Old 20th October 2016, 08:49   #25078  |  Link
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OK, I'll try and keep it within the idea of KISS.

I suspect that you are saying that these DVDs were done using a DVD recorder with the source being a TV/Cable/DBS channel. As such, you cannot tell from MediaInfo if the 29.97 video is pure video (for example from a live televised event) or contains 2:3 pulldown video. You have to physically look at the content to determine what the video format is.

Based upon the source, here are my suggestions.

1) 23.976 source to 29.97 via 2:3 pulldown (most TV scripted programming):
Do not de-interlace the material first, in order to convert it to progressive. That will totally wipe out the ability to IVTC it. Have BD-RB IVTC the input and upconvert to 720p. The normal process in AVISynth is to IVTC it first and then pass the video stream to the upconversion plugin. The end result should be a 720p that has pillar bars so the the 4:3 aspect ratio is kept.

If the source video is letterboxed, before upconversion to 720p, the 720x480 should be cropped to 720x360, so that the video will fill the 720p 16:9 frame. Otherwise you will end up with the video inside of a black box. I do not know if Jdobbs has that option available.

2) 29.97 pure video source:
There are a couple of ways to attack this, since you want 720p video, which can only be 59.94 fps and be compliant. If you deinterlace first, each resulting frame will have to be repeated in order to be 59.94 fps. Easily accomplished. But (here is where I get a little technical), deinterlacing reduces the time spacial information in half. By this I mean that with interlaced video, objects appear to move at 59.94 times a second. If you deinterlace, the objects can only move at 29.97 times a second. If you do not deinterlace, you can have the conversion program create a 720p frame from the 240 line field via interpolation. By doing that, you keep the time spatial information. I do not know what capabilities have been built into BD-RB.

It is a trade-off between deinterlacing interpolation of the two fields into a single field, or the interpolation of a single field into a single frame. I have no personal idea which is better visually, as I've never done it. I just let the TV/monitor up convert 480i video to 1080p for displaying.

A third option is to keep the 480i pure video as MPEG-2 video and burn that to the Blu-ray and let the display device handle it.
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Old 20th October 2016, 09:18   #25079  |  Link
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OK, I'll try and keep it within the idea of KISS.

I suspect that you are saying that these DVDs were done using a DVD recorder with the source being a TV/Cable/DBS channel. As such, you cannot tell from MediaInfo if the 29.97 video is pure video (for example from a live televised event) or contains 2:3 pulldown video. You have to physically look at the content to determine what the video format is.

Based upon the source, here are my suggestions.

1) 23.976 source to 29.97 via 2:3 pulldown (most TV scripted programming):
Do not de-interlace the material first, in order to convert it to progressive. That will totally wipe out the ability to IVTC it. Have BD-RB IVTC the input and upconvert to 720p. The normal process in AVISynth is to IVTC it first and then pass the video stream to the upconversion plugin. The end result should be a 720p that has pillar bars so the the 4:3 aspect ratio is kept.

If the source video is letterboxed, before upconversion to 720p, the 720x480 should be cropped to 720x360, so that the video will fill the 720p 16:9 frame. Otherwise you will end up with the video inside of a black box. I do not know if Jdobbs has that option available.

2) 29.97 pure video source:
There are a couple of ways to attack this, since you want 720p video, which can only be 59.94 fps and be compliant. If you deinterlace first, each resulting frame will have to be repeated in order to be 59.94 fps. Easily accomplished. But (here is where I get a little technical), deinterlacing reduces the time spacial information in half. By this I mean that with interlaced video, objects appear to move at 59.94 times a second. If you deinterlace, the objects can only move at 29.97 times a second. If you do not deinterlace, you can have the conversion program create a 720p frame from the 240 line field via interpolation. By doing that, you keep the time spatial information. I do not know what capabilities have been built into BD-RB.

It is a trade-off between deinterlacing interpolation of the two fields into a single field, or the interpolation of a single field into a single frame. I have no personal idea which is better visually, as I've never done it. I just let the TV/monitor up convert 480i video to 1080p for displaying.

A third option is to keep the 480i pure video as MPEG-2 video and burn that to the Blu-ray and let the display device handle it.
Yes, thank you. I believe that I got most of that. All of the files I will be working with are movies, films, only. So, it SEEMS like your number 1 is the way to go. From the reading that I've done in the meantime, it looks like basically most NTSC DVDs are going to be this way whether a captured movie or whatever, since in all the cases that I have they have all been placed into DVD format (ISO's) So, I use MakeMKV first to create an MKV file from the ISO. I'm guessing that in just about all cases, I would likely want to use BDRB to do what you said. I guess I can always look at the result and see how it looks

Thanks again for taking the time to explain this!
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Old 20th October 2016, 10:17   #25080  |  Link
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Hard-telecined stuff:
The source which Lathe uploaded in his other thread was 2:3 hard-telecined (no pulldown flags). You can only say this by manually analyzing the stream; media info will always report such streams as interlaced which often misleads people (and tools) to blindly apply deinterlacers to hard telecined footage (why should they suspect something else....).
When you set IVTC_SELECTION=1 in the .ini, BD-RB lets you choose as dropdown menu (right click on the stream) to force IVTC on "interlaced" (in fact hard-telecined) streams. So when you are positive that the stream is in fact hard-telecined you can IVTC it; just don't apply IVTC to true interlaced content!

One still finds hard-telecined stuff as bonus material (extras) on BD's because the studios are sometimes lazy and take these from previous DVD releases, or compile hybrids of true interlaced video with telecined film .... lot from DVD-NTSC heritage.

True-interlaced:
A true interlaced 29.97i video can always be bobbed to 1280x720p@59.94fps in order to preserve the original time resolution and stay Blu-ray compliant. Bobbing instead of deinterlacing has its own cons, but QTGMC is an outstanding bobber in many respects (I prefer it over frame interpolation) -- and also use it sometimes to clean up IVTC-ed progressive material.

Last edited by Sharc; 20th October 2016 at 10:30.
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