Avidemux AVI>4GB issue

[MatzeXXX]

Hello!

Since installing Windows 7 x64 I have been starting to use Avidemux instead of VirtualDubMod for my video transcoding. I like the fact that it doesn't need codecs installed (this was the killer issue with VDM on a x64 OS), and it can handle way more formats.

But I have a constant issue with the AVI files Avidemux creates. All AVI bigger than 4GB ("OpenDML") cannot be opened by Adobe Premiere (just shows black video, no audio) or Windows Media Player 11. They can however be opened by VLC Player or Windows Media Player 9 (in 32bit Windows XP). The AVIs I created with VirtualDubMod, no matter how big, could be opened with all programs.

I need unlimited AVI size (usually DV content), and I am wondering if there is a setting I can use to make the created files more compatible.

Thanks in advance

Matthias

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Only "OpenDML AVI" aka "AVI 2.0" can be bigger than 4 GB. In practice the size of "AVI 1.0" files often is even limited to 2 GB.

Therefore you cannot create Non-OpenDML AVI's bigger than 2 GB. And if Adobe Premiere doesn't support OpenDML AVI's, then only Adobe can fix this.

Anyway, if Adobe Premiere for some bizarre reason rejects OpenDML AVI's only from Avidemux, piping those files through VirtualDub may fix it...

[MatzeXXX]

Hi,

you are right in suggesting that piping an Avidemux OpenDML AVI through VirtualDub results in an AVI Adobe Premiere (and Encore, and Windows Media Player 11) can read, but this way is not only very time consuming, but doesn't answer the question why AVIs bigger than 4GB created via VirtualDub are more compatible than those created via Avidemux, and if there's a way I can make those >4GB AVIs created with Avidemux more compatible.

Thanks!

Matthias

[Inspector.Gadget]

Time to break out the hex editor...

[LoRd_MuldeR]

As said before, if you want AVI's bigger than 4 GB, there is NO way around OpenDML. Don't ask my why Adobe Premier rejects the OpenDML files created by Avidemux.

You could compare the AVI file created by Avidemux to the file piped through VirtualDub by using VirtualDub's Hex Editor. It has a very helpful "RIFF Tree" tool for that purpose.

If you found out what is different, you may file a feature request at the Avidemux forum. Or you contact the Adobe support and ask them to fix their software

[MatzeXXX]

Originally Posted by LoRd_MuldeR

Don't ask my why Adobe Premier rejects the OpenDML files created by Avidemux.

Well, that's what I was doing

I will look into using the hex editor that comes with VirtualDubMod, but I doubt I will be able to do much with that - my knowledge about these things is limited.

One first thought towards an explanation could be that I haven't even heard of the word "OpenDML" prior to using Avidemux. VirtualDub or Premiere or all the other tools I've been using over the past years "just" created AVIs no matter what size they were (with DV content of an hour usually around 13GB), and those files ALWAYS were readable by all applications and players i've used.

Maybe that's not leading anywhere at all.

Matthias

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Originally Posted by MatzeXXX

One first thought towards an explanation could be that I haven't even heard of the word "OpenDML" prior to using Avidemux. VirtualDub or Premiere or all the other tools I've been using over the past years "just" created AVIs no matter what size they were (with DV content of an hour usually around 13GB), and those files ALWAYS were readable by all applications and players i've used.

I tell you again that the original AVI format (aka "AVI 1.0") cannot exceed a size of 4 GB. If you ever see an AVI files that exceeds that size, this file must be an "OpenDML AVI" (aka "AVI 2.0") file. It's technically impossible to "just" create an AVI 1.0 file bigger than 4 GB, because the AVI file format defines that the size (in byte) is stored as a 32-Bit integer. Consequently the maximum size is 2^32 Byte = 4 GB. Or if you interpret the 32-Bit integer as signed (which some software does!) then the maximum size is 2^(32-1) Byte = 2 GB. OpenDML circumvents this limit by storing several AVI RIFF structures consecutively in the same file. Each segment is still limited to a size of 4 GB (2 GB), but the number of segments per file is not restricted. So the total size of the file will only be limited by the file system...

[MatzeXXX]

Hello again,

is there something specific I should be looking for in the AVI headers of both the Avidemux and the VirtualDubMod output?

Could this problem be related to muxing settings?

I am persistend, because I really dig Avidemux, and it would be perfect for my needs if this problem (which others must have too) gets solved.

Also I wanna stress the fact that I'm using the 64 Bit version of Windows 7. Could this be a cause for problems?

Matthias

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Originally Posted by MatzeXXX

is there something specific I should be looking for in the AVI headers of both the Avidemux and the VirtualDubMod output?

Differences of the RIFF structure. For example chunks that are missing in one of the files, but are present in the other one. Or different order of chunks that exist in both.

Originally Posted by MatzeXXX

Could this sproblem be related to muxing settings?

Possible, indeed.

Originally Posted by MatzeXXX

Also I wanna stress the fact that I'm using the 64 Bit version of Windows 7. Could this be a cause for problems?

Nope.

[MatzeXXX]

Ok, the RIFF tree of an AVI file with a DV video (with PCM audio) created with Avidemux (R6121) is seen on the left, that same file pipelined through VirtualDubMod is seen on the right.

I can see differences, however I am in no position to comment these. Would be great if someone reads more in this!

Matthias

http://amor.cms.hu-berlin.de/~schoeb...tualdubmod.jpg

[LoRd_MuldeR]

This both clearly are OpenDML files. You see it with the "odml" chunk (AVI2 extended header block).

Differences I see:
* The right on (piped through VDubMod) has an addition "unknown" chunk. I don't know why this was added, but this certainly isn't something required.
* Both files seem to have the "hierarchica" index" placed differently. This doesn't mean the one is more/less correct than the other one.

Actually I'd assume both files are correct with respect to the specs. If I remember correctly, the OpenDML specs allow different strategies to place the index.
So my conclusion is that Adobe Premier is broken with respect to OpenDML AVI's, because it doesn't open all valid files...

[MatzeXXX]

Thanks a lot for your comments!

Clearly this doesn't satisfy me, since Adobe Premiere and Adobe Encore are important applications to me.

But what leaves me puzzled is that even Windows Media Player 11 (the newest version) by the same manufacturer who once invented AVI (that obviously might not mean much) always crashes when trying to play one of these AVIs created with Avidemux.

Matthias

[Midzuki]

Originally Posted by MatzeXXX

But what leaves me puzzled is that even Windows Media Player 11 (the newest version) by the same manufacturer who once invented AVI (that obviously might not mean much) always crashes when trying to play one of these AVIs created with Avidemux.

As Alex Noe said:

«
That's normal. WMP doesn't support AVI files,
don't use it.
»

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Microsoft defined the original AVI format (aka "AVI 1.0"), but the OpenDML AVI extension (aka "AVI 2.0") was contributed by Matrox

Also it's Microsoft's AVI splitter that limits the size of AVI 1.0 files to 2 GB instead of 4 GB by interpreting the size as a signed value where it should be unsigned...

[MatzeXXX]

Hello,

just a little update with nothing new so far. At least I went from Windows Media Player 12 (I always wrote 11, but it's actually 12) crashing to WMP telling me it doesn't support the file - this happened when I reduced the "Aufteilen alle 4090MB" (I don't know the original English for this - maybe "split every 4090MB" or "divide ...") to something less (in that AVI configuration box).

I still have to re-create that though. I was doing a s**tload of other stuff at the same time, and maybe something else went wrong.

So, another thought: I am sure there is the same reason behind WMP and those Adobe applications to not be able to run those files. Like some system wide AVI interpreter that doesn't work properly. Using VLC and Avidemux and so on obviously doesn't reveal this problem, since they bring their own codecs, etc.

Is there a way to reroute that standard system wide AVI interpretation? (I am sure I sound way n00by right now.)

Matthias

[LigH]

A related question in the german doom9/Gleitz board:

If I enable OpenDLM output for AVIs in the Avidemux settings, will I be able to set up its AVI Multiplexer not to split files at all?

As far as I tried in the GUI only, without any file to process, you can limit splitting only between each 1 MB and each 9000 MB, so Avidemux will never create any AVI files lager than 9000 MB, not even OpenDML AVIs?

[hello_hello]

Have you tried opening the AVIdemux created AVI with VirtualDubMod and resaving it using direct stream copy for both the video and audio?
I think VDM will complain about not having the correct codec for decoding installed (if there isn't one) but it should still happily resave the AVI.

If it makes you feel any better I was involved in a discussion in another forum regarding playing AVIs on a PS3 (h264 and MP3 if I remember correctly). Only AVIdemux could create an AVI the PS3 could play. It wouldn't have anything to do with the AVIs VirtualDubMod created. I never did work out why.

[cord-factor]

Originally Posted by hello_hello

Have you tried opening the AVIdemux created AVI with VirtualDubMod and resaving it using direct stream copy for both the video and audio?

If the audio is VBR, there may be out of a-v sync.

[LigH]

That part of the question was 2 years ago.

But today, is Avidemux able to create OpenDML AVI files larger than 9 GB?

[cord-factor]

>>> But today, is Avidemux able to create OpenDML AVI files larger than 9 GB?
Yes, I made them.