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Old 22nd May 2016, 18:46   #38121  |  Link
aufkrawall
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Thanks for the changes, is there now a grain detection implemented for deringing?

Result in this cartoon looks very clear and also otherwise well to me. Look at how enormous the difference with super-xbr sharpness 150 is:
off:


on:


Looks like pure magic is going on.
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Old 22nd May 2016, 19:28   #38122  |  Link
nghiabeo20
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A question from a newbie here: I've just have my laptop calibrated, but from what I've read, madvr bypass all gpu processing, just use it's own algorithm. So will madvr disable icm profile? Thanks!
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Old 22nd May 2016, 19:36   #38123  |  Link
huhn
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no it doesn't bypass that by default.

windows loaded icm calibration is not the best way to calibrate.
think about creating 3d LUT from the icm using this: http://displaycal.net/

or use overlay mode if possible.
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Old 22nd May 2016, 20:23   #38124  |  Link
JarrettH
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Is that worth using if I already calibrate with my Spyder2 software? I've heard of it, but it seems even more technical. Is it better?
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Old 22nd May 2016, 20:33   #38125  |  Link
huhn
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yes the spyder and iprofiler software is not that good to say it friendly.
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Old 22nd May 2016, 21:40   #38126  |  Link
leeperry
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OMG yet another new build,

BTW, I recently got ahold of a DVB-T2 tuner that can record on USB keys so I finally get to use the black bars detection but:

1) could you please add tags for borders cropping? some TV logos only need a few lines of cropping to fully disappear and I'd like to nail this once and for all.

3) hardly worth a heart attack but why does the latter jump from 5 to 7? Eventually I got a video that would ideally need 6 ^^

4) TV broadcasters like to mess with levels and even more AR, there's no tag for the latter according to this as it would appear? I've seen many 2.35 music videos airing as 1.78

Due to the new deringer I'm contemplating watching everyday TV through mVR but I can't quite justify wasting +100W to watch the news and the usual TV junk, maybe things will change with the next AMD boards and make it far more worth my while but YADIF in LAV gives combing artifacts on 1080i50@25p fast moving logos IME and I can't process 50p. My Sammy TV hardly ever combs, would need to try mVR's deinterlacer I guess.

Also, switching fps in Reclock or closing PotP takes a few secs now when it used to be instant before so I will try older builds to see when that really started and whether mVR is even the culprit.

Last edited by leeperry; 22nd May 2016 at 21:47.
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Old 22nd May 2016, 22:29   #38127  |  Link
leeperry
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Sorry for the double post and I do realize that I'm extremely late to the party but I think a few more lines of cropping woulda been in good order?



Please advise whether that'd make a sample useful to anything as many music videos on that channel end up with that white bar in the top right corner

Last edited by leeperry; 23rd May 2016 at 11:43.
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Old 23rd May 2016, 05:29   #38128  |  Link
Asmodian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JarrettH View Post
Is that worth using if I already calibrate with my Spyder2 software? I've heard of it, but it seems even more technical. Is it better?
Especially the Spyder2 is too old for modern displays, I had to replace my Spyder3 years ago because it could not read accurate colors on the new WLED backlights that seem ubiquitous now or on anything with a wide gamut. Also as they age the filters change so the meters do simply go bad with time (heat, water, oxygen, etc.). Edit: I used the meter with Argyllcms, not their software, which as mentioned, is not very good.

A 3DLUT and a Windows calibration as done by Spyder's software is not the same thing. Think of the Windows calibration as the first step of a calibration and the 3DLUT as the full calibration done in one step.

huhn mentioned using the rendering option "enable windowed overlay" because madVR bypasses the GPU's calibration hardware completely in that mode but it loads the values from the GPU and applies then internally at its high bit depth and before dithering. This does offer better quality but it does not help if the values are bad to start with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
Please advise whether that'd make a sample useful to anything as many music videos on that channel end up with that white bar in the top right center
Is the "cleanup image borders by cropping" option not a good solution? It is probably meant to clean up faded or distorted edges of analogue captures but it could work well here too?
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Last edited by Asmodian; 23rd May 2016 at 05:41.
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Old 23rd May 2016, 06:02   #38129  |  Link
JarrettH
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Hey thanks both. I actually sort of consumed my evening with installing displayCAL haha. I eventually created a 3D LUT with the Spyder 2 without much trouble.

p.s. My display is a CCFL LCD (NEC ea231wmi), so it's still a good pairing of technology

How do you think I should setup the rendering, Asmodian? I keep it at "this display is already calibrated" + full exclusive

Edit:

Realized the gamma is - by default - set to 2.4 in displayCAL madvr preset, which would explain the wash out. I removed the screenshots until I run it again.

Last edited by JarrettH; 23rd May 2016 at 07:44.
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Old 23rd May 2016, 06:57   #38130  |  Link
x7007
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Madshi , if I have Bluray 3D which I use . which is not SidebySide or Top&Buttom , it is Active 3D TV with Nvidia 3DTV software. I can't make it to show actual 3D when using 3D on AUTO in madvr with 3DTV Enabled. it says D3D11 Windowed or Fullscreen (3D) but there is nothing being visible as 3D. my TV goes to 3D mode when it detect supported 3D software or Nvidia 3DTV enabled, and Potplayer goes to 3D mode, but again nothing is visible as 3D , just plain 2D. can I fix that ? I can't watch the movie in PowerDVD because I need subtitles and the movie doesn't have subtitles and I can't add to powerdvd srt subtitles, is there other way for that too ? in PowerDVD it works properly, 3D is visible and pretty much perfect.

Windows 10
Nvidia 970
3DTV Drivers

the movie is bluray Active 3D not just MKV normal file.

Last edited by x7007; 23rd May 2016 at 06:59.
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Old 23rd May 2016, 08:13   #38131  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
Especially the Spyder2 is too old for modern displays, I had to replace my Spyder3 years ago because it could not read accurate colors on the new WLED backlights that seem ubiquitous now or on anything with a wide gamut. Also as they age the filters change so the meters do simply go bad with time (heat, water, oxygen, etc.). Edit: I used the meter with Argyllcms, not their software, which as mentioned, is not very good.

A 3DLUT and a Windows calibration as done by Spyder's software is not the same thing. Think of the Windows calibration as the first step of a calibration and the 3DLUT as the full calibration done in one step.

huhn mentioned using the rendering option "enable windowed overlay" because madVR bypasses the GPU's calibration hardware completely in that mode but it loads the values from the GPU and applies then internally at its high bit depth and before dithering. This does offer better quality but it does not help if the values are bad to start with.
Wasn't there a problem with out of gamut colors using a 3DLUT with windowed overlay mode?
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Old 23rd May 2016, 10:27   #38132  |  Link
huhn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JarrettH View Post
Hey thanks both. I actually sort of consumed my evening with installing displayCAL haha. I eventually created a 3D LUT with the Spyder 2 without much trouble.

p.s. My display is a CCFL LCD (NEC ea231wmi), so it's still a good pairing of technology

How do you think I should setup the rendering, Asmodian? I keep it at "this display is already calibrated" + full exclusive

Edit:

Realized the gamma is - by default - set to 2.4 in displayCAL madvr preset, which would explain the wash out. I removed the screenshots until I run it again.
why should a gamma of 2.4 result in a washed out image?
the 3D LUT is most likely fixing black clipping.

but what so ever not an madVR issue.
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Old 23rd May 2016, 12:57   #38133  |  Link
baii
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JarrettH View Post
Hey thanks both. I actually sort of consumed my evening with installing displayCAL haha. I eventually created a 3D LUT with the Spyder 2 without much trouble.

p.s. My display is a CCFL LCD (NEC ea231wmi), so it's still a good pairing of technology

How do you think I should setup the rendering, Asmodian? I keep it at "this display is already calibrated" + full exclusive

Edit:

Realized the gamma is - by default - set to 2.4 in displayCAL madvr preset, which would explain the wash out. I removed the screenshots until I run it again.
Bt 1886 on low contrast ratio display (say 1000:1) tend to look wash out, try the pure 2.2 and use the black offset so you don't get black crush.

You can find more about all this stuff on the corresponding avs forum thread.

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Old 23rd May 2016, 13:58   #38134  |  Link
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Bt 1886 on low contrast ratio display (say 1000:1) tend to look wash out, try the pure 2.2 and use the black offset so you don't get black crush.

You can find more about all this stuff on the corresponding avs forum thread.

Sent from my 306SH using Tapatalk
Pure 2.2 will also be washed out with 2.2 Power Law gamma in the same places that look washed out with BT.1886 gamma, BUT not AS washed out. If a film is using low black levels properly, BT.1886 image will look better.

IMHO, BT.1886 is the way to go on ANY display, be it extremely low-contrast (sub 1000:1) TN/IPS panel, barely acceptable contrast VA (~3000:1) panel, acceptable contrast VA (~5000:1) panel, or high contrast high quality CRT/Plasma/OLED panel.

Also, I don't think you need to select Black Offset or Compensation because ArgyllCMS and DisplayCAL have fixed the elevated blacks problems a LONG time ago.
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Old 23rd May 2016, 14:05   #38135  |  Link
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Can the anti halo algorithm address the halo generated by SVP?
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Old 23rd May 2016, 15:14   #38136  |  Link
JarrettH
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Here are the images I removed. I use 2.2 gamma on my monitor (it's matte IPS).

3dlut (uses 2.4 gamma)

Spyder 6500k 2.2


3dlut (uses 2.4 gamma)

Spyder 6500k 2.2


3dlut (uses 2.4 gamma)

Spyder 6500k 2.2

Last edited by JarrettH; 23rd May 2016 at 15:45.
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Old 23rd May 2016, 15:37   #38137  |  Link
XTrojan
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6500k or 2.2 is Normal, if you notice on dark areas in 2.4 there's major black crushes, the benefit is clearness but white/dark areas tend to get issues. The result is a "tunnel-vision" effect, where the surroundings often end up irrelevant or very dark, making you focus mostly on the stuff in the middle. This can be good for horrors, dramas, tarantino movies and similar but for action Marvel/Michael Bay etc this often makes it unwatchable.

I would stay at 2.2, it tends to give the best balance, dynamic contrast modes on TVs have the same black crush effect, albeit not as strong as pure 2.4, since modern TVs can detect black areas and adapt, but it still isn't recommended to go above 2.2.

Last edited by XTrojan; 23rd May 2016 at 15:52.
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Old 23rd May 2016, 16:14   #38138  |  Link
aufkrawall
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Compared NNEDI3 64 + SR3 vs. deringing + super-xbr 150 + SR1 (both quadrupling).

NNEDI3:



super-xbr:



NNEDI3:


super-xbr:


Funny thing is that super-xbr with higher sharpness is less aliased than lower sharpness. This offers quite some possibilities, since with deringing filter, halo boosting isn't a real problem anymore with super-xbr and its line bloating can already be significantly lowered by just SuperRes 1, which doesn't reintroduce lots of ringing unlike higher SR settings when combined with deringing filter.
So, it seems to me that this super-xbr settings combination is now a real alternative to NNEDI3 while it requires just a fraction of computing power at the same time. I can't spot a clear winner quality wise with these examples (ok, the cartoon shows much less ringing with the deringing filter).
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Old 23rd May 2016, 20:42   #38139  |  Link
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Pure 2.2 will also be washed out with 2.2 Power Law gamma in the same places that look washed out with BT.1886 gamma, BUT not AS washed out. If a film is using low black levels properly, BT.1886 image will look better.

IMHO, BT.1886 is the way to go on ANY display, be it extremely low-contrast (sub 1000:1) TN/IPS panel, barely acceptable contrast VA (~3000:1) panel, acceptable contrast VA (~5000:1) panel, or high contrast high quality CRT/Plasma/OLED panel.
This. The whole point of BT.1886 is to compensate for low contrast displays, which is why the shape of the curve changes depending on black/white levels which are fed as parameters to the formula.
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Old 23rd May 2016, 20:47   #38140  |  Link
huhn
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the cartoon sxbr image has a ton of ringing are you sure the anti ringing was used on it?

i have to say both cartoon image are not looking good.
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