MadVR in use with LG OLED Thread

[VBB]

As, you might have seen it already, but there's at least one guy who was able to get 4:4:4 to show properly on the test pattern. I want to say he was using RGB 10-bit at 120Hz.

[huhn]

thanks for the test does your TV have a screenshoot function? so we can get a better idea what DSC does on nvidia? if i still get one we could compare it with AMD DSC.

[Asmodian]

Unfortunately only from live TV, no screenshots of HDMI input.

[huhn]

could you try again with disabled HDCP?

[Asmodian]

How would I disable HDCP?

[huhn]

my panasonic can do that no clue if that's a general feature. doesn't even mean it will really fix your "issue" so to bad and time to move on.

[cyberscott]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

Can you get 4K RGB/444 from the Club-3D CAC-1085 on the C9? Have you checked with ChromaRes or similar?

I was finally able to get it to send 3840x2160@120Hz to my CX by switching to 2560x1440@120Hz first, power cycling the adapter, and then switching to 3840x2160@120Hz. I had a lot of trouble with it wanting to use 4096x2160 instead, sending a signal the ended up with a horizontally squished blurry 3840x2160 on the display. But the display shows 4:2:2 with the ChromaRes test pattern, it is in PC mode and Nvidia thinks it is sending 8 bit RGB full 3840x2160@120 Hz.

I have had trouble finding much on AVS too.

I have been able to get 4K@120 4:4:4 to work. Here is a link to a photo I posted on AVS Forum.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post59953664
I do have a C9 and you a CX so there could a difference between the models.

[Asmodian]

Well, it looks like you have 4:4:4 as much as I do. Your ChromaRes test image looks exactly like mine. A very clear 4:2:2 and no sign of a 4:4:4 anywhere.

Otherwise it does seem like full resolution chroma, the lazy dog test image looks fine for me too, but it is apparent that something cannot handle the ChromaRes test image. It is probably DSC.

Thanks!

[Asmodian]

After more testing and input on AVS I think this subsampling is the fault of the TV. It simply cannot do 120 Hz and 4:4:4 at the same time, it even looks the same in PC mode and HDMI mode at 120 Hz. The C9 is the same. It is much better than 4:2:2 sent from the GPU but it is obviously worse than 60 Hz PC mode. A single pixel wide vertical colored line is another easy example, with color bleeding into the neighboring pixels. Comparing it to 4:2:2 from the GPU is weird, I would expect 4:2:2 to look basically the same no matter where it happened but whatever the TV is doing looks much better than my 2080 Ti down sampling to 4:2:2.

It even does the same thing in 1080p120 from the HDMI 2.0 port on my GPU. There is absolutely no reason it would need to subsample the chroma at 1080p120 since it can do 4K60 444 but it does anyway. I will still plug in the new GPU with a faint hope, but it is unreasonable hope.

Originally Posted by cyberscott

I have been able to get 4K@120 4:4:4 to work.

Originally Posted by Asmodian

Well, it looks like you have 4:4:4 as much as I do. Your ChromaRes test image looks exactly like mine. A very clear 4:2:2 and no sign of a 4:4:4 anywhere.

LOL I just noticed that your image there is a screenshot (it would be a rather clear photo...)! So the 4:2:2 I see is due to my screen.

Do you really see a 4:4:4 in that situation? And the adapter really switched to 120 Hz? Because it seems like the TV does not do 4:4:4 at 120 Hz.

[huhn]

did you do the usually test with sharpness i saw TVs showing 4:4:4 that where clearly subsampling.

in the end i only trust in the in 4:4:4 if the pixel structure really shows each pixel has a different value.

[Asmodian]

No, I usually use ChromaRes.png, and with that it was very clear that there was subsampling going on. A quick look at the lazy dog test image looked OK to me, but only because I don't usually use that one. Looking closer, or moving it, and it is obviously subsampling. Also, so much better than Nvidia set to 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 that I went "Ah, it is working!" too soon.

I am curious how it looks to cyberscott, I would love so much to be wrong. Their report looks pretty convincing that it works, it would have been hard to miss read the ChromaRes image in that screenshot, (please ignore that I thought it said 4:2:2 before).

Looking the same in HDMI or PC mode when at 120 Hz is pretty conclusive to me and the adapter is so weird about actually changing settings that it might not have been on 120 Hz for that test? I don't see how I could do anymore testing myself, I think I tried everthing. I have not been able to get the adapter to work without DSC using CRU, so my faint hope is that maybe having a GPU without DSC and using the CRU method to get it working really can get the TV to display 4K120 without subsamping? The issue with 1080p120 is just because it has to scale it so with a proper HDMI 2.1 GPU I could get full chroma.

However, there are other reports at AVS that agree with my findings, one at least has a 1060 too.

Edit: reading again, I think you were talking to cyberscott, not me? Since I didn't see 4:4:4 that seems very likely. My reading comprehension fails again.

[huhn]

i'm talking to you.
i know how to quote at least sometimes.

i use the chromares.png too but i look out at the pixel structure not the 444 because i saw to many screens that show the 444 but are clearly subsampling but that doesn't matter again because you don't have the 444 so yeah.

keep up the good testing it's nice to see at least a couple of user been critical at the equipment they own.
before i can do a UHD 120 HZ 444 test i have to wait for a sony update so i'm pretty bad situation here sony is not reliable at all.

[cyberscott]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

No, I usually use ChromaRes.png, and with that it was very clear that there was subsampling going on. A quick look at the lazy dog test image looked OK to me, but only because I don't usually use that one. Looking closer, or moving it, and it is obviously subsampling. Also, so much better than Nvidia set to 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 that I went "Ah, it is working!" too soon.

I am curious how it looks to cyberscott, I would love so much to be wrong. Their report looks pretty convincing that it works, it would have been hard to miss read the ChromaRes image in that screenshot, (please ignore that I thought it said 4:2:2 before).

Looking the same in HDMI or PC mode when at 120 Hz is pretty conclusive to me and the adapter is so weird about actually changing settings that it might not have been on 120 Hz for that test? I don't see how I could do anymore testing myself, I think I tried everthing. I have not been able to get the adapter to work without DSC using CRU, so my faint hope is that maybe having a GPU without DSC and using the CRU method to get it working really can get the TV to display 4K120 without subsamping? The issue with 1080p120 is just because it has to scale it so with a proper HDMI 2.1 GPU I could get full chroma.

However, there are other reports at AVS that agree with my findings, one at least has a 1060 too.

Edit: reading again, I think you were talking to cyberscott, not me? Since I didn't see 4:4:4 that seems very likely. My reading comprehension fails again.

From the photo I took, yes 444 is showing up dark as one would expect with 444 input. 422 is also showing up but a little faint.

When using a 4k, 444 "Quick brown fox" test picture, all the text is clear and sharp. If I drop the chroma down to 422, the text becomes less sharp and distinct as it should be at 422.


I think a lot of the chroma issues is that the CAC-1085 doesn't always processes the picture the same every time. It will mess up HDR on a regular basis when first enabled and even when disabled.
I'll get a thin, flickering vertical line made of lines that will appear sometimes on the screen about 8 inches on the right of the screen.
Changing resolution, HZ or power cycling the 1085 doesn't clear it.
The only way to clear it is to turn off the TV and turn it back on.

It is hard to get any consistent test results when when the CAC-1085 isn't consistent.

Even with all the intermittent issues, I do like being able to run 4K@120Hz 444, especially when using madVR and being able to get higher frame rates in games.

The CAC-1085 was always meant to be a low cost stopgap measure pending the inevitable release of the next gen video cards. NVidia may haver their 3080 series out late August or September. Not too far away for true HDMI 2.1 experience! (hopefully)

[Asmodian]

It really seems like the TV cannot do 120 Hz and 444 at the same time though. I have rebooted everything with the CAC-1085 many many times, no change (odd artifacts sometimes but never better than 422). Text does look pretty good, not as good as it does at 60 Hz but better than I expected for 4:2:2.

Like huhn said to me, do you have sharpening enabled the TV? When I see 444 on the TV the 4:2:2 is basically invisible, except for the blue/red stripes at the top/bottom edges of the text. You should not be able to see both numbers, if that is the case the test pattern is not working. I suspect you have sharpening making the 444 visible, but I hope that isn't it. It is just so weird how it seems so specific and reproducible and I cannot get 444 with any mode that goes above 60 Hz. If you move the lazy dog pattern around do you notice any flashing in the red/blue text at the bottom?

Edit: Also make sure screen shift is off, it silently turns itself on when the TV is turned on so you have to turn it on and off every time. It does a slight zoom in some way that horribly messes up the image when subsampled, because of course it does. You probably aren't seeing this because it makes text look bad but it does mess with the test pattern too.

[cyberscott]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

It really seems like the TV cannot do 120 Hz and 444 at the same time though. I have rebooted everything with the CAC-1085 many many times, no change (odd artifacts sometimes but never better than 422). Text does look pretty good, not as good as it does at 60 Hz but better than I expected for 4:2:2.

Like huhn said to me, do you have sharpening enabled the TV? When I see 444 on the TV the 4:2:2 is basically invisible, except for the blue/red stripes at the top/bottom edges of the text. You should not be able to see both numbers, if that is the case the test pattern is not working. I suspect you have sharpening making the 444 visible, but I hope that isn't it. It is just so weird how it seems so specific and reproducible and I cannot get 444 with any mode that goes above 60 Hz. If you move the lazy dog pattern around do you notice any flashing in the red/blue text at the bottom?

Edit: Also make sure screen shift is off, it silently turns itself on when the TV is turned on so you have to turn it on and off every time. It does a slight zoom in some way that horribly messes up the image when subsampled, because of course it does. You probably aren't seeing this because it makes text look bad but it does mess with the test pattern too.

Check something for me, if you could. When you have 3840X2160@120 RGB Full selected and running, use your LG remote, click on the enter /scroll button. That should bring up the LG overlay window with the HDMI port number and name which should be PC. Highlight the overlay, which should bring up the time, date, along with the resolution on the lower left corner. What is the resolution you see?
Before I used CRU to delete all of the 4096X2160 resolution instances, checking the LG overlay would always show 4096X2160 resolution, even if I selected 3840x2160 120 under PC resolutions in the NVidia control panel.
This prevented the 4:4:4 /4:2:2 photo from showing 4:4:4 properly.

After I deleted the 4096X2160 resolutions in CRU, I could select 3840X2160@120 RGB Full and 4:4:4 looked correct with the test photo. Also, the LG status overlay now showed the correct 3840X2160 resolution.
Deleting 4096X2160 resolutions in CRU only deletes that resolution under the "PC" resolutions in the NVidia control panel, they remain in the "Ultra HD, HD, SD" resolutions.

As a reminder, I have the LG C9 and use an RTX 2080 Ti.

Also, I have Sharpness at zero for all my picture modes.

Maybe this info will help you out.

[Asmodian]

So I just switched the adapter over to my C9 and lo and behold, 444 (also with a hint of the 4:2:2 due to non-perfect something, probably what you see). LG's new chip is worse than the solution on the C9?

Sorry, I should have done this already.

1080p120 looks like 444 on the C9 too. I hate you LG.

[cyberscott]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

So I just switched the adapter over to my C9 and lo and behold, 444 (also with a hint of the 4:2:2 due to non-perfect something, probably what you see). LG's new chip is worse than the solution on the C9?

Sorry, I should have done this already.

1080p120 looks like 444 on the C9 too. I hate you LG.

I wonder if the if the C9's full 48Gpbs HDMI 2.1 ports vs the CX's
40Gpbs HDMI 2.1 ports have anything to do with it? Though 40Gpbs should be enough bandwidth for 4k@120 RGB Full @ 10 bit.

Being an older model, the C9 seems to have better benefits over the newer CX at least when it comes to the 1085.
Also, I know from my email discussion with Club 3D that they have been using the C9 for their testing of the CAC-1085. Not sure if they have access to a CX.

I'm hoping with the new graphic cards coming out before the end of the year , they will work without issues on both the C9 and CX.

[Asmodian]

Originally Posted by cyberscott

I'm hoping with the new graphic cards coming out before the end of the year , they will work without issues on both the C9 and CX.

Will they? Fingers crossed.

Rumors of September for Nvidia's next GPUs.

Off to experiment with CRU for hours.

Edit: I have been unable to delete the stock 3840x2160@120 and 100 modes from the PC resolution section with CRU. I wish this TV said what format it is receiving in the HDMI info screen, the C9 does that too. The C9 worked with 444 right away, without CRU and using those same PC resolutions, so I doubt editing the EDID would help anyway.

[SamuriHL]

I plan on picking up a 3080ti myself but I ain't got a 2.1 screen to drive it with. That's ok, I don't plan on upgrading the video card again for a few years after that.

[cyberscott]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

Will they? Fingers crossed.

Rumors of September for Nvidia's next GPUs.

Off to experiment with CRU for hours.

Edit: I have been unable to delete the stock 3840x2160@120 and 100 modes from the PC resolution section with CRU. I wish this TV said what format it is receiving in the HDMI info screen, the C9 does that too. The C9 worked with 444 right away, without CRU and using those same PC resolutions, so I doubt editing the EDID would help anyway.

You need to delete the 4096X2160 resolutions only in CRU and not the 3840x2160 resolutions. Not sure it will help with the CX but it can't hurt. Make sure that you pick the LG *active* screen. Sometimes CRU will put a non active screen on the top of the list.