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17th November 2020, 23:05 | #1021 | Link |
QB the Slayer
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I am fairly sure there are three different tonemapping curves in the C8. These are triggered by the MDL of the video being watched. The reason for my thoughts here are based on the 20-pt whitepoint settings... Looking at the second last code value we can trigger 3 different ones. 669,696, and 713. Most video seems to have an MDL of 1000 and there are some with 4000. The code value of a 1000 MDL video is 696 and the 4000 MDL video has a code value of 713... This is with HDR passthrough.
So how does this relate to madVR? Well it seems that when you use pixel shaders and output in HDR you are actually setting an MDL in the output with the "display peak luminance". I tracked down where the different code values switch. DPL = display peak luminance CV19 = the second last code value of the 20-pt settings Code:
DPL 20-760 ==> CV19 is 669 DPL 760-2500 ==> CV19 is 696 DPL 2501-10000 ==> CV19 is 713 Am I missing something here? I just think that capping the DPL to 700 is missing some of the potential for the top end highlights and for no reason since the TV will tonemap regardless. QB
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Last edited by QBhd; 17th November 2020 at 23:08. |
17th November 2020, 23:09 | #1022 | Link | |
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It is pretty complicated to desaturate even at 700 nits indeed, especially when we're talking about 2000+ nits source content.
I've compared the S&M UHD benchmark with madVR and the TV makes little effort to desaturate in order to retain more detail/contrast. I've posted this before but here are pertinent photos: https://slow.pics/c/fyivVAOB The TV just displays a colored blob Quote:
These days I'm too lazy to boot into Windows to use madVR though.. so Dolby Vision it is. In the beginning it was established that 760 was the max nits one should set to have the highest brightness, however with panel variance etc. people just left it at 700 IIRC, to avoid surprises. Last edited by quietvoid; 17th November 2020 at 23:12. |
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17th November 2020, 23:10 | #1023 | Link |
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This is why it would be fantastic for future models to have an option (outside of the service menu, preferably) to disable tone mapping altogether, like what HGIG does for gaming.
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17th November 2020, 23:35 | #1025 | Link | |
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Quote:
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17th November 2020, 23:44 | #1027 | Link |
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OLED will be long dead before it ever reaches such high nit levels, but you know that
Makes me wonder what 2021 will bring, and if it will be worth upgrading or waiting even longer. First world problems...
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18th November 2020, 00:39 | #1028 | Link |
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I don't believe I said a 4000 nit _OLED_ display! Yea, I'm looking forward to new display tech that keeps the fidelity we get from OLED but cranks up the NIT level. Ideally we want to get AWAY from tone mapping. I want to obsolete both DTM and DV. Obviously there's stuff over 4k nits but it's rare and I'm willing to allow the display to tone map "down" to 4k nits.
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18th November 2020, 01:47 | #1029 | Link |
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Guys,
Can you share resource on HDR Tone mapping using madvr? Most of the resources are converting HDR -> SDR. But how about just plain HDR Tone mapping? I would like to compare it with LGs built in DTM
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18th November 2020, 02:19 | #1030 | Link |
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you have to understand that they are both in the end tone mapping to SDR.
so you if you are sure you can defeat the DTM just test it everything that applies to SDR applies to this too you simply have the issue of not really knowing how much of what you see is madVR tone mapping and how much is the TV. |
18th November 2020, 02:32 | #1031 | Link |
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Mark, that's what I was getting at above. I would also like to compare, but I need a better video card for that
SamuriHL and chros should be able to tell you more. Oh, and I just realized you said DTM. If you want to stay true to the original, you want to turn that off. DTM is what LG does on top of its normal tone mapping, and it's all over the place.
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Henry | LG OLED65C7P | Denon AVR-X3500H | ELAC Uni-Fi x7 | ELAC Debut 2.0 SUB3030 x2 | NVIDIA SHIELD TV Pro 2019 | Plex Last edited by VBB; 18th November 2020 at 02:36. |
18th November 2020, 04:24 | #1032 | Link |
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There's no easy "set this and you're done" kind of thing with these beta builds. And I can tell you, everyone has their own preferences and what they're going after. It may seem like it'd be "easy" to set it for HDR output but it can be challenging. I know some people post their settings. Take a look at NeoXP's settings and maybe start there, and tweak it to your liking.
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18th November 2020, 05:45 | #1033 | Link |
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I'm now using NeoXP's. It looks really good. May I ask your preferred setting?
NeoXp's uses SDR feature of my OLED with gamma 2.4. Image a little bit dim. Is there a way to make it 2.2 using madvr tone mapping?
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18th November 2020, 06:07 | #1034 | Link |
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Neo has a really old OLED, that's why he does it. You want to use HDR to HDR tone mapping with his settings, but nits adjusted to 700 and "send HDR meta data" checked. Correct me if I'm wrong, guys.
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18th November 2020, 09:46 | #1035 | Link |
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You are right VBB!
Just curious, shall I leave "dynamic target nics" alone?
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18th November 2020, 12:02 | #1036 | Link | ||||
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- use d3d11-native - use b114 - use these settings from b113 and let the new options alone in b114 - disable Contrast recovery, it consumes more power when it kicks in (e.g. NeoXP doesn't use it at all) - enable "Compromise on HDR luminance ..." - I use NGU Sharp Low for chroma with the above settings, you may have to go lower a bit Lemme know if it helps or not, it should work with 2160p@23p!!! Quote:
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But normally you'd measure your HDR light output with a meter (and e.g. HCFR) with a 1% window (on a 65" screen) and that's what you set for DPN in madvr. And on 2018 Oleds the built-in hdr peak is set to 700 (unlike with >=2019 sets where you can adjust it).
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18th November 2020, 13:50 | #1037 | Link | |
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Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
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21st November 2020, 09:19 | #1039 | Link |
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Hi,
Firstly, sorry if this question is well trodden, but being new to the LG OLED, thought I'd ask here,as a lot of boards out there are contradictory. Re the Color Gamut option - there are wide, extended and auto options. Is it best left to auto for both SDR and HDR playback? or wide for HDR and extended for SDR? Perhaps someone can enlighten me on what these options "really do" Thanks UPDATE - figured it out myself through testing.
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LG OLED55BX6LB, Zidoo Z1000 Pro, Yamaha RX-A3060, Polk Signature Fronts & Centre, Wharfedale D300 Atmos surrounds, Polk Signature HTS 10 Sub, DSPeaker Antimode 8033 Cinema Last edited by oldpainlesskodi; 21st November 2020 at 18:18. |
21st November 2020, 21:23 | #1040 | Link |
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For normal use, you want to leave them both on AUTO and set madVR to BT.709 for SDR. For LUT use, you want to set SDR to WIDE and set madVR to DCI-P3, just in case (it is unclear at the moment how that option interacts with the LUTs, at least in the latest beta). In PC mode, at least on the older models, the gamut is locked to WIDE, so you'll have to set madVR to DCI-P3, even if you don't use a LUT.
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Henry | LG OLED65C7P | Denon AVR-X3500H | ELAC Uni-Fi x7 | ELAC Debut 2.0 SUB3030 x2 | NVIDIA SHIELD TV Pro 2019 | Plex |
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