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Old 16th November 2017, 01:59   #1301  |  Link
sheppaul
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to add the possibility to globally move all subtitles a bit more toward the spectator or behind the screen?
Yeah, there was already such a feature for normal 2d text subtitles. But, it did not work for subtitles having 3d depths. Now, it's possible.

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It would be indeed a nice addition to PotPlayer if he could support the 3D depth from external or muxed OFS files. At least, it will be possible to play SBS or T&B files with SRT subtitles and the (more or less) correct depth.
That's exactly what I thought. However, there is one more thing which should be implemented before telling him about the OFS implementation. Potplayer can convert and display normal text subtitles to 3d subtitles having fixed depth but adjustable on the fly.

It works well with 3d mvc media (blu-ray iso/folder, mkv having 3d mvc streams) but re-encoded 3d videos having half resolutions do not work with a default subtitle renderer (overlay type). It should be changed to image type (mixing subtitles to video streams). It is also supported in the player but it is very inconvenient as it requires manual switching and the quality of subtitle rendering is not very good if you have large screens. I think providing the same subtitle rendering with half 3d videos should be done in advance.

Potplayer's developer said it's very complicated and he'd not like messing up the existing codes as it is actually working pretty well. So I'm stuck with the precedent feature which I think is absolutely necessary. As for OFS files, is it possible to mux it in mkv container?

Last edited by sheppaul; 16th November 2017 at 05:44.
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Old 16th November 2017, 05:31   #1302  |  Link
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Originally Posted by konikpolny View Post
Talking about subtitles, as regards pic based subtitles they are kind of too big for my use and I've always wondered if the players can reduce their size. Do you know if any players provide control over the size of the sup or idx/sub format subtitles? I haven't been able to find ...
Potplayer can do it. It's one of the features I made a feature request ago and fortunately it was implemented. It's somewhere in preferences. By the way, I'm not sure how it'll work for displaying 3d subtitles as my purpose for feature request was to reduce the size of 2d subtitles.

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Old 16th November 2017, 11:08   #1303  |  Link
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Originally Posted by sheppaul View Post
As for OFS files, is it possible to mux it in mkv container?
As far as I know, no. It is certainly possible to add the 3D offsets in SEI messages within the AVC video stream (exactly like they are added to the MVC stream in a 3D BD), but that would require a specific muxer or a tool that can add the SEI messages after the original creation of the h264 or h265 stream, or to modify x264 and x265 to include the possibility to add them directly, when the video is encoded. That seems difficult. But it is already possible to include any file as attachment in the final MKV. Since an OFS file is made of approximately as many bytes as there are frames in the movie, it's a small file that can be loaded entirely in memory when the MKV is opened. But if the offset sequences are not muxed with the video stream, the difficulty will be to stay synchronized when the user seeks somewhere in the movie. The player must know the exact frame number it is playing to pick the right 3D depth, and many DirectShow codecs are not frame accurate. Also, an independent OFS file (included or not in the MKV container) is not suitable for video streaming.

Also, for movies with several different subtitle streams, it will be necessary to imagine a method to link each subtitle stream to its corresponding OFS file. It is easy to imagine a way to do it, for example with a little file describing that, or simply with the order of the subtitle streams matching the order of the OFS files, but there is currently no standard for that. I'm not sure the programmer of a specific player will accept to implement his own method, if it is not widely accepted.

So, I don't know if there are fatal difficulties in implementing the 3D offset sequences for SBS or T&B movies, but IMO it's possible, as long as they are associated with a video format and that can be decoded accurately and a good container. IMO, that should be the case of h264/h265 within a MKV container, but I'm not sure. (It is for sure not possible to do that with an AVI and old codecs like DivX. But who still uses AVI with that obsolete codec for a modern 3D movie?)
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Old 16th November 2017, 13:38   #1304  |  Link
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there is currently no standard for that. I'm not sure the programmer of a specific player will accept to implement his own method, if it is not widely accepted.

So, I don't know if there are fatal difficulties in implementing the 3D offset sequences for SBS or T&B movies, but IMO it's possible, as long as they are associated with a video format and that can be decoded accurately and a good container.
Yeah, you got the point. He does not really like non-standard methods. That's probably the main reason he'd not likely to support it.
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Old 19th November 2017, 17:59   #1305  |  Link
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Thanks sheppaul for the info about PotPlayer being able to change size of the graphic subtitles. Indeed, it can reduce picture subs and it works fine for 2D. The feature is called "Scale image caption" and can be set under the main Subtitles tab in the Preferences.
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Old Yesterday, 10:49   #1306  |  Link
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dear all, i've converted 2 movie with this toos, using default parameters, one of this halfsbs movie is perfect, the other one seems to have some disturb on some scenes on background, front detail are perfect, there are some possible parameters to try to change to delete this problem ? seems like that in background i see video without using glasses, like a double image, but the front in same frame is perfect!
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Old Yesterday, 14:03   #1307  |  Link
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seems like that in background i see video without using glasses, like a double image, but the front in same frame is perfect!
I'm not sure I understand the problem.

Of course, if you watch the movie with the TV playing it in 3D but without the 3D glasses, you MUST see two slightly different images. You see the image for the left eye + the image for the right eye with your two eyes, and of course that's not how you are supposed to watch a 3D movie.

The objects that appear (with the glasses) approximately at the surface of the screen may give the impression that there is only one image, but when the distance from the screen to the background (or foreground) objects increases, the two images are more distant, and the effect of a double image becomes visible. (The effect is somewhat similar to what you can see when you are severely drunk.) It's caused by the parallax, and it's not only normal, but necessary. You can see exactly the same "double image" effect if you watch the 3D movie in a theater without the glasses.

If what you see when you use the 3D glasses is correct and appears in 3D, that means that everything is normal, and works as expected. You should NEVER watch a 3D movie without the glasses, as that doesn't make sense. (Some TVs have an option to watch the 3D movie in 2D, but in that case, they show you only a single view, and of course the "double image" effect disappears.)
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Old Yesterday, 15:04   #1308  |  Link
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Originally Posted by r0lZ View Post
I'm not sure I understand the problem.

Of course, if you watch the movie with the TV playing it in 3D but without the 3D glasses, you MUST see two slightly different images. You see the image for the left eye + the image for the right eye with your two eyes, and of course that's not how you are supposed to watch a 3D movie.

The objects that appear (with the glasses) approximately at the surface of the screen may give the impression that there is only one image, but when the distance from the screen to the background (or foreground) objects increases, the two images are more distant, and the effect of a double image becomes visible. (The effect is somewhat similar to what you can see when you are severely drunk.) It's caused by the parallax, and it's not only normal, but necessary. You can see exactly the same "double image" effect if you watch the 3D movie in a theater without the glasses.

If what you see when you use the 3D glasses is correct and appears in 3D, that means that everything is normal, and works as expected. You should NEVER watch a 3D movie without the glasses, as that doesn't make sense. (Some TVs have an option to watch the 3D movie in 2D, but in that case, they show you only a single view, and of course the "double image" effect disappears.)
ok ok, i'll try to explain better my problem, i have 2 movie coded in half-sbs, i watch both movie on my tv with my glasses, one of the two movies views good, in all beautiful 3d scene, i see right the 3d depth in all scenes. Now i want to explain better the problem on other movie, i see on tv with glasses, i see the 3d depth also on this movie, but different from the another one i see on this on background like a 3d double image effect, like i see on tv without glasses, but the strange is that i see only on background this problem, the 3d depth of image is right!
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Old Yesterday, 15:30   #1309  |  Link
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Originally Posted by albesp77 View Post
i see on this on background like a 3d double image effect, like i see on tv without glasses, but the strange is that i see only on background this problem, the 3d depth of image is right!
Well, in very contrasted images (like when you see a man with black suit in a snowy landscape), the image of the left eye may be seen partially with the right eye, and vice-versa. That unpleasant effect is due to the somewhat bad quality of the 3D equipment, and can be more or less visible. It is called "ghosting". It's not really a problem of the movie, and the 3D encoding made by BD3D2MK3D is not bad. The ghosting effect is only visible because the 3D glasses are unable to filter the two views at 100%. I guess it's what you have experienced.

Of course, a bad 3D source (like most 3D BDs produced in Germany) can also be the culprit. Anyway, in both cases, the problem is also visible when you play the original 3D BD, and is not due to BD3D2MK3D.

What is the movie that causes that problem ? And can you post a SBS image extracted from that movie (preferably one where the problem is really noticeable) on an image sharing site so that I can analyse it ?
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Old Yesterday, 15:32   #1310  |  Link
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Originally Posted by r0lZ View Post
Well, in very contrasted images (like when you see a man with black suits in a snowy landscape), the image of the left eye may be seen partially with the right eye, and vice-versa. That unpleasant effect is due to the somewhat bad quality of the 3D equipment, and can be more or less visible. It is called "ghosting". It's not really a problem of the movie, and the 3D encoding made by BD3D2MK3D is not bad. The ghosting effect is only visible because the 3D glasses are unable to filter the two views at 100%. I guess it's what you have experienced.

Of course, a bad 3D source (like most 3D BDs produced in Germany) can also be the culprit. Anyway, in both cases, the problem is also visible when you play the original 3D BD, and is not due to BD3D2MK3D.

What is the movie that causes that problem ?
good to know! saw 7 3d italian edition
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Old Yesterday, 15:40   #1311  |  Link
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I have not Saw 7, so I can't tell if it's a movie with highly contrasted scenes.

You have replied when I was editing my previous reply, so you have probably net seen my last request:

Can you post a SBS image extracted from that movie (preferably one where the problem is really noticeable) on an image sharing site so that I can analyse it ?
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Old Yesterday, 15:45   #1312  |  Link
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I have not Saw 7, so I can't tell if it's a movie with highly contrasted scenes.

You have replied when I was editing my previous reply, so you have probably net seen my last request:

Can you post a SBS image extracted from that movie (preferably one where the problem is really noticeable) on an image sharing site so that I can analyse it ?
sure, but i really don't know how to take the right frame to analyze in scene with problem, can you help me ?
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Old Yesterday, 15:50   #1313  |  Link
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No, just select an image from a scene where the problem is really visible.

(P.S.: Please do NOT quote the entire post when you reply to the last post. It's useless and against the Doom9 rules.)
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Old Yesterday, 15:55   #1314  |  Link
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ok i'll try to double check scene in those days and take the frame! thanks in advance!
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