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Old 7th October 2017, 15:50   #46281  |  Link
Anime Viewer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Spot on right!

Could be a GPU hardware defect (or overclocked VRAM or GPU), or a faulty HDMI cable, or a faulty TV HDMI input port. But this doesn't sound like anything madVR would be at fault for.
The VRAM and GPU are not overclocked, so that should rule them out. I've viewed it directly on the notebook's built in monitor, and still see the issue occuring there, so that should rule out the HDMI cable and the TV HDMI as well as the TV itself.

I'll keep testing things, and see if I can isolate it to something in settings.
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Old 7th October 2017, 16:23   #46282  |  Link
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sorry to inform you but the missing overclocking doesn't make your hardware immune to defects.

check the temps. it's a laptop and the small cooler are getting dusty over the time or the GPU are simply defect.

i'm not ruling out driver issues or the interference of after programs here.
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Old 7th October 2017, 16:40   #46283  |  Link
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That really does sound like GPU memory issues, not madVR or even other software, I have regularly gotten little white lines when pushing my GPU memory too far. Does the length of the line correspond to one of the tile sizes in Nvidia's tile based rendering?

RAM simply goes bad sometimes and the exact workload that might show the error is pretty random. It probably shows up with madVR because of temperature or maybe because madVR uses regions of memory or memory access patterns that other applications do not.

That said, if you do find some setting please let us know what it was!
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Old 7th October 2017, 16:51   #46284  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
@steakhutzeee The brightness isn't coming from madVR, rather it's the darkness that is coming from VLC.
The overall brightness levels of your madVR screenshot are identical to mine and, more importantly, to EVR too, so the most probable cause is that it's VLC that is modifying the image brightness and not madVR.
I don't know why that is, I've never used VLC and I hope you'll understand I won't discuss it here.
Yes, clear! I use vlc just to make comparison
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Old 7th October 2017, 17:13   #46285  |  Link
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What's your opinion on madVR's HDR conversion settings?
To my eyes, default setting of 400nits looks too dim for sRGB displays with gamma of 2.2, even in a room with dimmed lights. I prefer 350nits.
The high quality hue preservation seems to be totally worth the costs, as it prevents yellow and orange from turning into reddish.
I'm not sure about measuring each frame's peak luminance. It can prevent some overly glaring look, but the result can also be less spectacular.
"restore details in compressed highlights" can lead to extreme ringing and more aliasing, I don't think the more detailed look of bright areas is worth this.
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Old 7th October 2017, 17:25   #46286  |  Link
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the nit setting depends alot on your screen brightness. so it is impossible to give an accurate answer here.
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Old 7th October 2017, 17:28   #46287  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
sorry to inform you but the missing overclocking doesn't make your hardware immune to defects.

check the temps. it's a laptop and the small cooler are getting dusty over the time or the GPU are simply defect.

i'm not ruling out driver issues or the interference of after programs here.
What temperatures should be of concern?

From running monitoring tools default GPU temp is 47* C and max its running at appears to be 69* C. From what I recall from the past 90-100+* C might be of concern.

CPU cores are reporting temperatures from 69*C to 88*C.

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Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
That really does sound like GPU memory issues, not madVR or even other software, I have regularly gotten little white lines when pushing my GPU memory too far. Does the length of the line correspond to one of the tile sizes in Nvidia's tile based rendering?
I'm not familiar with what a "tile" size is. They are small little lines (don't go very far across the screen) that seem to be randomly spread in their location.
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Last edited by Anime Viewer; 7th October 2017 at 17:35.
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Old 7th October 2017, 17:49   #46288  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Which video fps are we talking about? 24fps or 60fps? madVR is currently not very good at playing 24fps at 60Hz, if smooth motion is disabled. The pulldown interval is pretty random, which may confuse your TV. You should really play 24fps content at 24Hz, not 60Hz. Or alternatively use smooth motion.
I see I forgot to mention it was a 23,976fps video indeed.
Tbh I used to swear only by interpolation/Smooth Motion, but now I realize blended frames tend to blur everything. You know, the eternal 24fps<->60Hz choice: blurry or jerky. But in the end it's a minor problem for me: I have a 120Hz monitor (no interpolation/SM), and for my TV I use same refresh rate as video fps (when madVR let me) or a multiple (it's a 120Hz panel, good for 24fps).

BTW, even with SM, madVR troubles the algorithm of my TV and I have judder. It is as surprising as interesting, it makes me wonder how their algorithm work.
Anyway it's not a bug in madVR, I just shared what I think could help those having judder without understanding why.

Last edited by pirlouy; 7th October 2017 at 17:52.
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Old 7th October 2017, 18:17   #46289  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
the nit setting depends alot on your screen brightness. so it is impossible to give an accurate answer here.
My display surely is brighter than the recommended 120nits display brightness for office displays in a lit room. I'd consider this as a clear indicator for the default setting of 400nits in madVR being too dark.
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Old 7th October 2017, 18:38   #46290  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

Sounds complicated. But if you look at "el Filou"'s recent posts, he also reported issues with black & white levels, and for him the "content type" was involved in finding a solution.

For me it's extremely difficult to help in this case because every TV behaves differently, and some have really weird options. E.g. look at mrmarioman's recent post. He had to switch a very specific option in this TV to make it work.
It is complicated: I suppose that if everything was working as intended and under ideal conditions the TV should identify the content properly, as defined from NVIDIA's CP/Software and calibrate accordingly. Of course it does not really work for me nor did it solve my problem, it instead introduced different ones in some cases. Note that I am using a custom mode, clean in some sense. It is close to THX's modes but with a "Normal" colour temperature and native colour space instead of the "Warm" and 709 colour space the THX mode prefers. I have no powerful image enhancing gimmicks or specials enabled. The issue is seen across all modes, especially on Dynamic mode which toys with the dark levels a lot.

I did read el Filou's (and everyone's) posts about the issue, but the grey blacks strike to me as a different issue from this one, I could be wrong though. However, considering that my issue persists across 3 different graphics cards from 3 different generations, this is a TV problem and not an NVIDIA problem I suppose. It is also not a cable / receiver / player problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Well, I would need to have my hands on your PC and TV to figure out what's going on exactly. I can't really solve this issue remotely. It's possible that your TV is simply broken in such a way that it can't properly handle RGB input with correct black & white levels from your GPU, for some reason. Or maybe it needs a very specific set of options to be activated.

In any case, as the other users already indicated, THX and Cinema modes are *usually* the most accurate modes. If you don't like them that could mean that they're broken on your TV. Or it could mean that you're so used to the "wrong" modes that the accurate modes look bad to you now. It's impossible for me to judge. When using THX or Cinema modes, if you disregard the warm colors and bad "look" to your eyes, do the black & white levels at least work correctly? If so, that would be a clue as to why they might not work correctly in the other modes.
I really do not think what I am seeing can be accurate in terms of colour temperature on the THX/Cinema modes but I am no expert, as I said before; this is a matter of preference for me and others with which we calibrated the settings, it could be we are simply wrong. We compared the video we are getting from THX/Cinema modes to a real cinema theater, and the one major issue persisted; the colours were significantly more yellowish than what was expected or seen on a cinema theater. We did read online about how accurate and 'correct' THX modes are supposed to be and we were patient over multiple screenings until we get "used to it" - but we never did get used to it, everything looked unnaturally yellowish among other things.

With that said, switching the colour temperature to "Normal" from "Warm" does make a significant improvement in these THX/Cinema modes, they do not look as broken anymore. But they were still not the best we could get via manually customized settings. Lastly, unfortunately the issue persists among every single mode and mode/setting combination, but not when playing blu-ray discs on a player - so this is not a mode or eye issue (hopefully). I did also run various black and white calibration tests that confirmed this.

Thank you very much for your time and discussion everyone, I will update if I find a valid solution to this that could benefit others. Thanks again!
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Old 7th October 2017, 19:02   #46291  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
This problem will be fixed in the next madVR build.

Great - thanks! I hope to have this fixed in the next build.
Great! It's nice to see progress in these long standing issues.

I have one more issue with ProgDVB+madVR though. The OSD doesn't appear right. I set it to HD but it's SD (and stretched to full width).
I reported it to the author, he concluded: "Thren MadVR working with 720x576 but not working with 1980x1080 bitmaps."
Of course I can't tell whether he's right or wrong.

Last edited by mzso; 7th October 2017 at 19:05.
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Old 7th October 2017, 22:34   #46292  |  Link
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Does 3D work for anyone with madVR after latest Windows 10 and nvidia driver update?
3D Vision crashes as soon as you click next on the Stereoscopic 3D wizard.
madVR switches to 24hz, ctrl+j says content is 3D but the TV is not initiating 3D mode.
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Old 7th October 2017, 22:38   #46293  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

The settings for the 2nd image are NGU Standard with a bit of grain added (in the upscaling refinement settings).

Please note that this test image is very sharp, sharper than most movies, and the upscaling factor is very large (400%). The difference between various upscaling algos will be much smaller if you have a smaller upscaling factor, and if the video is softer.

which means (400%) maybe SD to 4k?
the more the SD source is of good quality the more you notice the differences between the various scalers as well on a full only (1080p)?
and if sd source is of low quality how to improve?

Last edited by dvd1; 7th October 2017 at 22:42.
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Old 7th October 2017, 22:54   #46294  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arrgh View Post
to the flashig frequency, I tried to answer here https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.p...27#post1820027
but i have some "new" details; after those different tests, also with the 32bit versions and a hint by ryrynz to try d3d9, I just today rechecked the madVR settings in that respect (0.92.4) with 64bit software;

outcome :
if I deactivate in renderer/general all Options, especially "full exclusive" and "direct3D11", than there is no studder anymore (not in 2D and not in 3D);
if I activate "exclusive" then 2D still works but 3D starts to studder every 1-2 sec; if I add 3d11 the studder becomes hectic in 3D and regular, but slower, in 2D
Generally, the Intel GPU driver is buggy when using D3D11 presentation, and when using the "use a separate device for presentation" option. So you should ideally disable those 2 options. Sadly, 3D playback requires D3D11 <sigh>.

I did implement a workaround for the Intel driver bug, which helped on my PC and for some other Intel users, but seemingly not for all Intel users.

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Originally Posted by arrgh View Post
in all settings the player does not come clean out of 3D and hangs
Did you already upload freeze reports for this? I don't recall right now.

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Originally Posted by aufkrawall View Post
To my eyes, default setting of 400nits looks too dim for sRGB displays with gamma of 2.2, even in a room with dimmed lights. I prefer 350nits.
The high quality hue preservation seems to be totally worth the costs, as it prevents yellow and orange from turning into reddish.
I'm not sure about measuring each frame's peak luminance. It can prevent some overly glaring look, but the result can also be less spectacular.
"restore details in compressed highlights" can lead to extreme ringing and more aliasing, I don't think the more detailed look of bright areas is worth this.
There's extreme ringing even with anti-ringing enabled? Do you have a screenshot, or ideally a small sample?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mzso View Post
I have one more issue with ProgDVB+madVR though. The OSD doesn't appear right. I set it to HD but it's SD (and stretched to full width).
I reported it to the author, he concluded: "Thren MadVR working with 720x576 but not working with 1980x1080 bitmaps."
Of course I can't tell whether he's right or wrong.
I don't understand what he's saying, to be honest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FDisk80 View Post
Does 3D work for anyone with madVR after latest Windows 10 and nvidia driver update?
3D Vision crashes as soon as you click next on the Stereoscopic 3D wizard.
madVR switches to 24hz, ctrl+j says content is 3D but the TV is not initiating 3D mode.
Have you tried the "enable nvidia 3d.reg"?

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Originally Posted by dvd1 View Post
which means (400%) maybe SD to 4k?
400% means e.g. 100x100 upscaled to 400x400.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dvd1 View Post
the more the SD source is of good quality the more you notice the differences between the various scalers as well on a full only (1080p)?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dvd1 View Post
and if sd source is of low quality how to improve?
Depends on the quality problem. For soft sources maybe some sharpening. For aliased sources I'd recommend NGU Anti-Alias.
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Old 7th October 2017, 23:02   #46295  |  Link
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teaser:

Two new algorithms coming in the next build, probably out tomorrow:

blocking -> cleaned
mosquito -> cleaned
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Old 7th October 2017, 23:08   #46296  |  Link
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Amazing! The last option I wanted for remove artifacts and with very good quality.

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Old 7th October 2017, 23:10   #46297  |  Link
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Two new algorithms coming in the next build

yeah madshi, finally
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Old 7th October 2017, 23:16   #46298  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

Have you tried the "enable nvidia 3d.reg"?
I did. It let me skip the nvidia 3D Vision Wizard. But if I do the nvidia image test it still crashes the same as the wizard crashed and madVR does not initiate 3D mode. I get no 3D logo on the TV as before. It just switches to 24hz and says that the content is "running in 3D".

I think this has started after latest Windows 10 update.
Reinstalled latest nvidia driver, cleaned with DDU, tried going back to DXVA copy-back... No go.

Can anyone try with Windows 10 v10.0.15063 & 385.69 drivers?

Was working beautify before. I'm lost at what is going on here.


Edit:
ok, WTH. I just pulled the power for the TV for 10 seconds, plugged it back in and 3D logo appeared as soon as I started a 3D movie.
What on earth could cause this? Maybe I messed with custom resolutions in madVR too much? I did have a couple of unsuccessful refresh rate switches, but it always recover back to normal and let me continue messing with it.

A restart for my non-smart 5 year old Samsung TV, hmm.. What's next a restart to my toaster. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The 3D vision wizard still crashes btw, but that's nvidia being nvidia I guess.

Last edited by FDisk80; 7th October 2017 at 23:45.
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Old 7th October 2017, 23:28   #46299  |  Link
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Nice nice for the teaser
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Old 7th October 2017, 23:34   #46300  |  Link
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aliased sources
what does that mean?
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direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

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