SVSmoothFps, params_string, scene question

[markfilipak]

Bounty offered in my 2nd post.

I don't read 'C' so even if I found the source code (which I think is closed source) I wouldn't be able to answer my questions.

My question is about the mode setting in the scene_string in the SVSmoothFps function.
My frame diagrams and questions are in the notes.

I would run some tests using a cooked up source having frame numbers, but I'm a novice and as of now, the only access I have to SVSmoothFps is via InterFrame and InterFrame doesn't support changes to 'scene:'. In that regard, I'd be grateful for any suggestions.

Regards,
Mark Filipak.

SVSmoothFps(source,super,vectors,params_string,[sar]:float,[mt]:integer)

params_string = "{"+rate_string+","+algo_string+","+mask_string+","+scene_string+","+light_string+"}"
                                                                    :
                                                                    Extended "scene change" controls.

scene_string = "scene:{mode:3,blend:false,limits:{m1:1600,m2:2800,scene:4000,zero:200,blocks:20},luma:1.5}"
                            :
                            0   ...uniform interpolation for maximum smoothness. For example for 24->60 conversion output will be: "1mmmm1mmmm..." [note 1]
                            1   ..."1m" mode that gives "1mm1m1mm1m..." [note 2]
                            2   ..."2m" mode: "1m11m11m11..." [note 3]
                            3   ...adaptive mode that switches between modes 0,1,2 based on overall vector field quality.

[note 1] 'mode:0' "1mmmm1mmmm..." (2 of 4 frames to 10 frames).
Is 'mode:0' the following? (which excludes frame [B] from the interpolation)

<---------------------- 1/6 s (scale = 480 characters/s) ---------------------->
[A_________________][B_________________][C_________________][D_________________] - input
[AAAAA_][AAAAC_][AAACC_][AACCC_][ACCCC_][CCCCC_][CCCCA_][CCCAA_][CCAAA_][CAAAA_] - output (via interpolated motion vectors)
---><--------------- 1/12 s ---------------><--------------- 1/12 s ------------ - picture centers & picture judder: none

Or is 'mode:0' the following? (which includes frame [B] in the interpolation)

<---------------------- 1/6 s (scale = 480 characters/s) ---------------------->
[A_________________][B_________________][C_________________][D_________________] - input
[AAAAA_][AAABB_][ABBBB_][BBBBC_][BBCCC_][CCCCC_][CCCDD_][CDDDD_][DDDDA_][DDAAA_] - output (via interpolated motion vectors)
---><----- 1/24 s -----><----- 1/24 s -----><----- 1/24 s -----><----- 1/24 s -- - picture centers & picture judder: none

[note 2] 'mode:1' "1mm1m1mm1m..." (4 frames to 10 frames).
Is the following what "1mm1m1mm1m..." means?

<---------------------- 1/6 s (scale = 480 characters/s) ---------------------->
[A_________________][B_________________][C_________________][D_________________] - input
[AAAAAA][AAAABB][AABBBB][BBBBBB][BBBCCC][CCCCCC][CCCCDD][CCDDDD][DDDDDD][DDDAAA] - output (via interpolated motion vectors)
------><--- 7/180 s ----><------ 2/45 s ------><--- 7/180 s ----><------ 2/45 s  - picture centers & picture judder: 7:8 cadence @ 12 judders/s.

[note 3] 'mode:2' "1m11m11m11..." (7 frames to 10 frames).
Is the following what "1m11m11m11..." means?

<---------------------- 1/6 s (scale = 480 characters/s) ---------------------->
[A_________________][B_________________][C_________________][D_________________] - input
[AA____][AB____][BB____][BB____][BC____][CC____][CC____][CD____][DD____][DD____] - output (via interpolated motion vectors)
s ----><-- 13/360 s ---><------ 17/360 s ------><--- 161/1440 s ----><---- 8/225 - picture centers & picture judder: 516:1145 cadence @ 6 judders/s.

[Alexkral]

Hi, check this out:

https://www.svp-team.com/forum/viewt...d=40315#p40315

[markfilipak]

Originally Posted by Alexkral

Hi, check this out:

https://www.svp-team.com/forum/viewt...d=40315#p40315

Thanks, Alexkral, but there are things that indicate that the diagram is not authoritative.

Just below the diagram, vanden asks, "Is that correct ?"

What is shown as 3:2 pulldown is actually 6:4 pulldown -- a quibble, I know.

If, in the SVSmoothFps documentation, "smoothness" means judder, than "1mmmm1mmmm...maximum smoothness", "1mm1m1mm1m...less smoothness", and "1m11m11m11...much less smoothness" is not consistent with my findings (below) in which "2m" mode appears to have much less judder than does "1m" mode.

1m@60fps (1mm1m1mm1m...): From vanden's diagrams, 1m@60fps (as a frame timing diagram, with my calculations) is:

<---------------------- 1/6 s (scale = 480 characters/s) ---------------------->
[A_________________][B_________________][C_________________][D_________________] - input
[AA____][AB____][AB____][BB____][BC____][CC____][CD____][CD____][DD____][DA____] - output (via interpolated motion vectors)
------><--- 11/300 s ---><----- 7/150 s ------><--- 11/300 s ---><----- 7/150 s  - picture centers & picture judder: 24%, 11:14 cadence, 12 judders/s.
A center (from left edge) = (1*(-1*8+4)+2*(0*8+4)+1*(1*8+4)+1*(2*8+4))/5 = 7.2 characters.
B center (from left edge) = (1*(1*8+4)+1*(2*8+4)+2*(3*8+4)+1*(4*8+4))/5 = 24.8 characters.
C center (from left edge) = (1*(4*8+4)+2*(5*8+4)+1*(6*8+4)+1*(7*8+4))/5 = 47.2 characters.
D center (from left edge) = (1*(6*8+4)+1*(7*8+4)+2*(8*8+4)+1*(9*8+4))/5 = 64.8 characters.
A to B (center-to-center) = 24.8-7.2 = 17.6 characters = 11/300 s.
B to C (center-to-center) = 47.2-24.8 = 22.4 characters = 7/150 s.
C to D (center-to-center) = 64.8-47.2 = 17.6 characters = 11/300 s.
D to A (center-to-center) = 80-64.8+7.2 = 22.4 characters = 7/150 s.
judder% = 100*(frame_width_difference)/(average_frame_width)% = 100*(22.4-17.6)/((17.6+22.4)/2)% = 24%.
judder cadence = 17.6:22.4 = 11:14.

2m@60fps (1m11m11m11...): From vanden's diagrams, 2m@60fps (as a frame timing diagram) is:

<---------------------- 1/6 s (scale = 480 characters/s) ---------------------->
[A_________________][B_________________][C_________________][D_________________] - input
[AA____][AA____][AB____][BB____][BB____][CC____][CC____][CD____][DD____][DD____] - output (via interpolated motion vectors)
300 s ---><----- 1/25 s -----><---- 13/300 s ----><----- 1/25 s -----><----- 13/ - picture centers & picture judder: 8%, 12:13 cadence, 12 judders/s.

Uniform@60fps (1mmmm1mmmm...): From vanden's diagrams, Uniform@60fps (as a frame timing diagram) is:

<---------------------- 1/6 s (scale = 480 characters/s) ---------------------->
[A_________________][B_________________][C_________________][D_________________] - input
[AA____][AB____][AB____][BC____][BC____][CC____][CD____][CD____][DA____][DA____] - output (via interpolated motion vectors)
---><----- 1/24 s -----><----- 1/24 s -----><----- 1/24 s -----><----- 1/24 s -- - picture centers & picture judder: none

There's 2 related issues.

Background: Vanden's diagrams suggest that all existing motion vector interpolation is solely between a preceeding frame and a following frame. To give that a name, I would call it a "span-of-3 interpolation".
For example, this (1m@60fps):

<---------------------- 1/6 s (scale = 480 characters/s) ---------------------->
[A_________________][B_________________][C_________________][D_________________] - input
[A_____][AB____][AB____][B_____][BC____][C_____][CD____][CD____][D_____][DA____] - output (via interpolated motion vectors)

shows 4 span-of-3 interpolations:
[AB] interpolated from [A] & [B],
[BC] interpolated from [B] & [C],
[CD] interpolated from [C] & [D], and
[DA] interpolated from [D] & [A],
plus 2 frame repeats:
[AB] and
[CD].
Comment: Even though the repeated frames are interpolated frames, frame repeats are not interpolation. The frame repeats produce judder.

Issue 1:
The SVSmoothFps documentation for 'algo:11' refers to a "dynamic median" without defining what that means.
Does "dynamic median" mean 4 span-of-3 interpolations followed by 8 span-of-3 interpolations between them followed by 6 discards as follows?

<---------------------- 1/6 s (scale = 480 characters/s) ---------------------->
[A_________________][B_________________][C_________________][D_________________] - input
[A_______][AB______][B_______][BC______][C_______][CD______][D_______][DA______] - 48fps (via span-of-3 interpolations)

For example, [AB] interpolated from [A] & [B],
followed by

[A_______][AB______][B_______][BC______][C_______][CD______][D_______][DA______] - 48fps (via span-of-3 interpolations)
[A__][AAB][AB_][ABB][B__][BBC][BC_][BCC][C__][CCD][CD_][CDD][D__][DDA][DA_][DAA] - 72fps (via span-of-3 interpolations)

For example, [AAB] interpolated from [A] & [AB],
followed by

[A__][AAB][AB_][ABB][B__][BBC][BC_][BCC][C__][CCD][CD_][CDD][D__][DDA][DA_][DAA] - 72fps (via span-of-3 interpolations)
[A_____][AB____][B_____][BBC___][BC____][C_____][CD____][D_____][DDA___][DA____] - 60fps output (via 6 discards)
-><---- 149/3360 s ----><-- 131/3360 s --><---- 149/3360 s ----><-- 131/3360 s - - picture centers & picture judder: 13%, 131:149 cadence, 12 judders/s.

which discards 6 frames to achieve 60fps.
Comment: As you can see, "dynamic median" results in judder that's more than "2m" but less than "1m". The judder is produced by the discards.
Comment: When attempting to convert 2 frames to 5 frames, any process that tries to do it via nested span-of-3 interpolations is going to have to repeat (or discard) some frames. Judder is caused by the repeats (or discards).

Issue 2:
Because I'm a novice and didn't know better, in my original post I had this:

<---------------------- 1/6 s (scale = 480 characters/s) ---------------------->
[A_________________][B_________________][C_________________][D_________________] - input
[AAAAA_][AAABB_][ABBBB_][BBBBC_][BBCCC_][CCCCC_][CCCDD_][CDDDD_][DDDDA_][DDAAA_] - output (via interpolated motion vectors)

The above has 4, weighted span-of-4 interpolations:
[AAABB_][ABBBB_] interpolated from [A] & [B],
[BBBBC_][BBCCC_] interpolated from [B] & [C],
[CCCDD_][CDDDD_] interpolated from [C] & [D], and
[DDDDA_][DDAAA_] interpolated from [D] & [A].
There is no dynamic median. There are no frame repeats or discards. There is no judder.
Comment: Weighted span-of-4 interpolations is the motion-vector equivalent of weighted span-of-4 spacial pixel interpolation (which I have done via ffmpeg's 'mix' filter).
It appears that weighted span-of-4 interpolation is not available.

Bounty
Since professional programmers need to make a living, even for FOSS software, I will pay a bounty for the creation of weighted span-of-4 interpolation.

[Alexkral]

Originally Posted by markfilipak

Just below the diagram, vanden asks, "Is that correct ?"

There are more diagrams below, and a post from the dev saying that they are all "generally" correct. How accurate that is, I don't know, but the dev himself has used that same diagram in other posts (like this one) to explain this, and the Avatar images from the first post on the next page seem to confirm it.

Originally Posted by markfilipak

There's 2 related issues.

Background: Vanden's diagrams suggest that all existing motion vector interpolation is solely between a preceeding frame and a following frame. To give that a name, I would call it a "span-of-3 interpolation".
For example, this (1m@60fps):

<---------------------- 1/6 s (scale = 480 characters/s) ---------------------->
[A_________________][B_________________][C_________________][D_________________] - input
[A_____][AB____][AB____][B_____][BC____][C_____][CD____][CD____][D_____][DA____] - output (via interpolated motion vectors)

shows 4 span-of-3 interpolations:
[AB] interpolated from [A] & [B],
[BC] interpolated from [B] & [C],
[CD] interpolated from [C] & [D], and
[DA] interpolated from [D] & [A],
plus 2 frame repeats:
[AB] and
[CD].
Comment: Even though the repeated frames are interpolated frames, frame repeats are not interpolation. The frame repeats produce judder.

They are not repeated frames, they are interpolated at different fractional positions in a time scale.

Originally Posted by markfilipak

It appears that weighted span-of-4 interpolation is not available.

I think it's possible to achieve similar things by mixing interpolation and blending, as in the SVP x2 1m + madVR Smooth Motion example from the Avatar images.

[markfilipak]

Originally Posted by Alexkral

There are more diagrams below, and a post from the dev saying that they are all "generally" correct. How accurate that is, I don't know, but the dev himself has used that same diagram in other posts (like this one) to explain this, and the Avatar images from the first post on the next page seem to confirm it.

They are not repeated frames, they are interpolated at different fractional positions in a time scale.

Are you sure? I read all the stuff you pointed to -- thank you for that -- and I'd like to point out 2 things:
1, The discussion was about new PTSs. Well, of course there would be new PTSs. That doesn't mean that the motion vector interpolation goes further than 1 interpolated frame between a pair of original frames (i.e. what I'm calling a "span-of-3 interpolation").
And 2, The output of mode 0 does have judder. It's very small, much much smaller than 3:2 pull-down (or 6:4 pull-down), but it is judder. If there was no repeated frames, there would be no judder. Do you agree?

Originally Posted by Alexkral

I think it's possible to achieve similar things by mixing interpolation and blending, as in the SVP x2 1m + madVR Smooth Motion example from the Avatar images.

Not blending. Never blending. Not unless it's absolutely the only way to get a 'pleasant' image (which is almost always not the case).

Though we disagree a bit, you've been very helpful. I'm so grateful. Thanks again.

--Mark.

[markfilipak]

I've reworked what I posted. I reworked it to expose the judder in the output pictures instead of the input pictures. That actually makes more sense because it's the output pictures that are seen.

1m@60fps contains 8 pictures, so 1m@60fps is 60fps that carries 48pps (pictures-per-second).
2m@60fps contains 7 pictures, so 2m@60fps is 60fps that carries 42pps.
Uniform@60fps contains 6 pictures, so Uniform@60fps is 60fps that carries 36pps.
The details follow.

1m@60fps -- 1mm1m1mm1m -- converts pictures-per-second from 24pps to 48pps and conveys them via 60fps.

<-------------------------------- 1/6 s (scale = 480 characters/s) -------------------------------->
[A______________________][B______________________][C______________________][D______________________]  input, 24fps(24pps)
[A_______][AB______][AB______][B_______][BC______][C_______][CD______][CD______][D_______][DA______]  output, 60fps(48pps) via interpolated motion vectors
 1         m         m         1         m         1         m         m         1         m
60 -><--- 1/40 ----><--- 1/40 ----><- 1/60 -><- 1/60 -><--- 1/40 ----><--- 1/40 ----><- 1/60 -><- 1/  center-to-center picture timing, seconds
                                                                                                      picture judder: 40%, 2:2:3:3 cadence, 12 judders/s.

2m@60fps -- 1m11m11m11 -- converts pictures-per-second from 24pps to 42pps and conveys them via 60fps.

<-------------------------------- 1/6 s (scale = 480 characters/s) -------------------------------->
[A______________________][B______________________][C______________________][D______________________]  input, 24fps(24pps)
[A_______][AB______][B_______][B_______][BC______][C_______][C_______][CD______][D_______][D_______]  output, 60fps(42pps) via interpolated motion vectors
 1         m         1         1         m         1         1         m         1         1
----><- 1/60 -><--- 1/40 ----><--- 1/40 ----><--- 1/40 ----><--- 1/40 ----><--- 1/40 ----><-- 1/40 -  center-to-center picture timing, seconds
                                                                                                      picture judder: 40%, 2:3:3:3:3:3:3 cadence, 6 judders/s.

Uniform@60fps -- 1mmmm1mmmm -- converts pictures-per-second from 24pps to 36pps and conveys them via 60fps.

<-------------------------------- 1/6 s (scale = 480 characters/s) -------------------------------->
[A______________________][B______________________][C______________________][D______________________]  input, 24fps(24pps)
[A_______][AB______][AB______][BC______][BC______][C_______][CD______][CD______][DA______][DA______]  output, 60fps(36pps) via interpolated motion vectors
 1         m         m         m         m         1         m         m         m         m
----><--- 1/40 ----><------ 1/30 ------><--- 1/40 ----><--- 1/40 ----><------ 1/30 ------><---- 1/40  center-to-center picture timing, seconds
                                                                                                      picture judder: 29%, 3:3:4 cadence, 12 judders/s.

What I want is not available.

(not available) -- converts pictures-per-second from 24pps to 60pps and conveys them via 60fps.

<-------------------------------- 1/6 s (scale = 480 characters/s) -------------------------------->
[A______________________][B______________________][C______________________][D______________________]  input, 24fps(24pps)
[A_______][AAABB___][ABBBB___][BBBBC___][BBCCC___][C_______][CCCDD___][CDDDD___][DDDDA___][DDAAA___]  output, 60fps(60pps) via interpolated motion vectors
 1         m         m         m         m         1         m         m         m         m
----><-------- 1/24 ---------><-------- 1/24 ---------><-------- 1/24 ---------><-------- 1/24 -----  center-to-center picture timing, seconds
                                                                                                      picture judder: none

[poisondeathray]

Originally Posted by markfilipak

Uniform@60fps -- 1mmmm1mmmm -- converts pictures-per-second from 24pps to 36pps and conveys them via 60fps.

<-------------------------------- 1/6 s (scale = 480 characters/s) -------------------------------->
[A______________________][B______________________][C______________________][D______________________]  input, 24fps(24pps)
[A_______][AB______][AB______][BC______][BC______][C_______][CD______][CD______][DA______][DA______]  output, 60fps(36pps) via interpolated motion vectors
 1         m         m         m         m         1         m         m         m         m
----><--- 1/40 ----><------ 1/30 ------><--- 1/40 ----><--- 1/40 ----><------ 1/30 ------><---- 1/40  center-to-center picture timing, seconds
                                                                                                      picture judder: 29%, 3:3:4 cadence, 12 judders/s.

This one should not be happening with mode:0, but I can confirm it does despite fiddling with the settings. Those duplicates shouldn't be there. It affects avs version too

It might be fixed in newer versions with svpflow manager running, but I'm running older "free" version.


mvtools2 works ok, both avs and vpy

[markfilipak]

Originally Posted by poisondeathray

This one should not be happening with mode:0, but I can confirm it does despite fiddling with the settings. Those duplicates shouldn't be there. It affects avs version too

poisondeathray! Hello my friend. Thanks for replying. And thanks for confirming my frame diagram.

Those duplicates shouldn't be there? If not, what do you think should be there?

It might be fixed in newer versions with svpflow manager running, but I'm running older "free" version.

I don't know anything about svpflow manager.

mvtools2 works ok, both avs and vpy

Well, I don't know what you mean. Do you mean that it behaves differently in mvtools2? (I know nothing about mvtools2.)

Do you know of anyone who'd like to earn the bounty by writing this:

Originally Posted by markfilipak

What I want is not available.

(not available) -- converts pictures-per-second from 24pps to 60pps and conveys them via 60fps.

<-------------------------------- 1/6 s (scale = 480 characters/s) -------------------------------->
[A______________________][B______________________][C______________________][D______________________]  input, 24fps(24pps)
[A_______][AAABB___][ABBBB___][BBBBC___][BBCCC___][C_______][CCCDD___][CDDDD___][DDDDA___][DDAAA___]  output, 60fps(60pps) via interpolated motion vectors
 1         m         m         m         m         1         m         m         m         m
----><-------- 1/24 ---------><-------- 1/24 ---------><-------- 1/24 ---------><-------- 1/24 -----  center-to-center picture timing, seconds
                                                                                                      picture judder: none

[poisondeathray]

Originally Posted by markfilipak

Those duplicates shouldn't be there? If not, what do you think should be there?

Not according to what they are selling or describing

I don't know anything about svpflow manager.

Newer versions require another program to run in the background. It's not free either

Well, I don't know what you mean. Do you mean that it behaves differently in mvtools2? (I know nothing about mvtools2.)

ie. Yes, no duplicates

vapoursynth version too

Here is an example of one variation. You would change num to 60000, den to 1001

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.p...02#post1814002

Do you know of anyone who'd like to earn the bounty by writing this:

If you mean specifically for svpflow, you'd have to determine if it's not already fixed first in the newer versions. Older versions were seriously overrated, and GPU produced worse artifacting than CPU in my experience

[Alexkral]

I just realized that what you are looking for is exactly the same as SVP 2.5x mode:0. I can't test it now but I can't see any judder when using it at home with the SVP 4 Pro Manager, so it must be a problem with the SVPflow libs you are using.

[markfilipak]

Originally Posted by poisondeathray

Not according to what they are selling or describing

Did you look at this? https://www.svp-team.com/forum/viewt...d=49164#p49164

My diagrams are basically those but layed on their sides. You see, I'm a hardware design engineer and I prefer diagrams that look like timing diagrams. Mine have a lot more detail, though.

Newer versions require another program to run in the background. It's not free either

Oh, is that the Russians at Smooth Video Project? I sensed that they weren't actually developers but were just trying to make money from other peoples' work. Should I send them the $20?

ie. Yes, no duplicates

vapoursynth version too

No duplicates? The post from MAG79 shows duplicates.

Here is an example of one variation. You would change num to 60000, den to 1001

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.p...02#post1814002



If you mean specifically for svpflow, you'd have to determine if it's not already fixed first in the newer versions. Older versions were seriously overrated, and GPU produced worse artifacting than CPU in my experience

[poisondeathray]

Originally Posted by markfilipak

Oh, is that the Russians at Smooth Video Project? I sensed that they weren't actually developers but were just trying to make money from other peoples' work. Should I send them the $20?

I would wait for Alexkral to test if it does what you want it

No duplicates? The post from MAG79 shows duplicates.

I didn't really look at the diagram closely. I read the description and used the settings

0 - uniform interpolation for maximum smoothness. For example for 24->60 conversion output will be: "1mmmm1mmmm...", where "1" stands for original frame and "m" for interpolated one.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding his description of mode:0

"maximum smoothest" does not really "jive" with "duplicates" in my book

None of the modes (0,1,2,3) were smooth, all had duplicates.

[markfilipak]

Originally Posted by Alexkral

I just realized that what you are looking for is exactly the same as SVP 2.5x mode:0. I can't test it now but I can't see any judder when using it at home with the SVP 4 Pro Manager, so it must be a problem with the SVPflow libs you are using.

My diagrams are based on theory. I'm sorry to say that I don't know what SVP 2.5x is? It has a 'mode:0' also? Oh, wait, is SVP "Smooth Video Project"?

If the diagrams by MAG79 that you showed me are correct, then my diagrams are correct. There is judder (which actually becomes very evident when SVSmoothFps.mask.area is greater then 300), but at lower 'area'values and at 60fps, the judder is difficult to see. What I do is view my test videos over a 60Hz TV via DisplayPort. The TV is 50-inch and is about a foot and a half away, so critcal analysis is fairly easy.

[markfilipak]

Originally Posted by poisondeathray

"maximum smoothest" does not really "jive" with "duplicates" in my book

That's my point. All the modes must have judder, more or less.

You should examine my diagrams. I spent a lot of time developing them and I think there are no errors.

Did you look at MAG79's diagrams (https://www.svp-team.com/forum/viewt...d=49164#p49164)?

[markfilipak]

Hey, is VapourSynth written entirely in python? No 'C'?

Never mind. The DLLs have to be in 'C', so I'm not going to develop my own mode:0 that doesn't have judder.

[poisondeathray]

Originally Posted by markfilipak

That's my point. All the modes must have judder, more or less.


You should examine my diagrams. I spent a lot of time developing them and I think there are no errors.

Did you look at MAG79's diagrams (https://www.svp-team.com/forum/viewt...d=49164#p49164)?

Where are the duplicates for uniform mode:0 in the diagram ?

Maybe I'm misreading it?

For example MI(0,1)a and MI(0,1)b are different. One is at 0.33 , the other at 0.66



Looking at it more closely, I might be getting something slightly different than you;

You're describing for mode:0
[A_______][AB______][AB______][BC______][BC______][C_______][CD______][CD______][DA______][DA______]

That would imply that A and AB are different.

But I'm actually getting no interpolation on the duplicates. There is no telltale artifacts, or slight warping of edges, or blending, or mix

I'm getting A,A,B,B,C,C,C,D,D,E

But my point is duplicates are "not smooth". And we're both getting them, even if the pattern description is slightly different

[Alexkral]

Originally Posted by markfilipak

Oh, wait, is SVP "Smooth Video Project"?

Yes. Look at the SVP 2.5x Uniform mode diagram here, there are no duplicates, the frames are interpolated at different positions in the time scale.

The last SVPflow versions that work correctly without the SVP Manager running are posted here:

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.p...45#post1914245

[poisondeathray]

Originally Posted by Alexkral

Yes. Look at the SVP 2.5x Uniform mode diagram here, there are no duplicates, the frames are interpolated at different positions in the time scale.

The last SVPflow versions that work correctly without the SVP Manager running are posted here:

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.p...45#post1914245

Those fix the duplicates for me, for the vpy version. It works as expected now

EDIT: spoke too soon, still some problems with duplicates...checking

[poisondeathray]

Just so everyone is on the same page -

Here is a test clip, "test_6frames.mp4", 6 frames 23.976p 640x640 . It's a synthetic move, 20px horizontal per frame, so you can overlay a grid and calculate how precise or what ratio the interpolated frame is. (I know you're looking at 4 frame source cycles, but I added extra, because some algorithms have a "look ahead" and examine n+1,n+2 frames)

The pattern 1mmmm1mmmm indicates which original frames positions are kept (frame zero, frame six), and that is consistent with the avisynth mvtools2 way of interpolation. There are no duplicates, but there are pro/cons to either resampling all frames , or keeping some original frames.

Original frames have higher quality, synthesized frames have lower quality, more blur. Pros/cons. The quality fluctuation by keeping some original frames can be percieved as a sort of flicker. It's a more drastic effect on film grain, or noisy content. "1mmmm1mmmm" can be slightly less smooth than resampling all frame completely, but resampling all frames is generally prone to more artifacts

https://www.mediafire.com/file/2tdxa...tests.zip/file

test_6frames.mp4 is the test source
test_frc.mp4 is mvtools2 avisynth based using default settings
test_mvflowfps.mp4 is the mvtools2 vpy script above
test_svpflow_mode0.mp4 is the avs version of svpflow, I think 2.x something. vpy version was the same, I didn't bother including

Maybe Alexkral can test if newest SVP 4.x with manager exhibits the issue

[markfilipak]

Originally Posted by poisondeathray

Where are the duplicates for uniform mode:0 in the diagram ?

[A_______][AB______][AB______][BC______][BC______][C_______][CD______][CD______][DA______][DA______]
:........::..................::..................::........::..................::..................:
picture 1      picture 2           picture 3      picture 4      picture 5           picture 6

Maybe I'm misreading it?

For example MI(0,1)a and MI(0,1)b are different. One is at 0.33 , the other at 0.66

That's not how I interpret what MAG79 writes (based on vanden's diagrams). I interpret the diagrams thus: MI(0,1)a and MI(0,1)b are the same but have differing time stamps. Here: https://www.svp-team.com/forum/viewt...d=40354#p40354, MAG79 says, "So any source frame will be placed at integer values in time scale. But any interpolated frame is situated between two source frames so it has fractional position." I think he refers to PTSs, not temporal interpolation. I may be wrong because I'm interpreting what MAG79 writes and it seems that MAG79 is not a native English speaker.

I'm going to resolve this issue. I'm going to dump raw frames and compare their data. If I need help with that, will you help, poisondeathray?

Looking at it more closely, I might be getting something slightly different than you;

You're describing for mode:0
[A_______][AB______][AB______][BC______][BC______][C_______][CD______][CD______][DA______][DA______]

That would imply that A and AB are different.

Correct. That's 6 pictures contained in 10 frames.

But I'm actually getting no interpolation on the duplicates. There is no telltale artifacts, or slight warping of edges, or blending, or mix

I'm getting A,A,B,B,C,C,C,D,D,E

Huh? You're getting only repeated frames? And how could you be getting [E] as the 10th frame? I don't get it.

But my point is duplicates are "not smooth". And we're both getting them, even if the pattern description is slightly different

I don't know what you're 'saying'. Does "them" refer to duplicates or "not smooth" frames? And to what "pattern description" do you refer?