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Old 23rd September 2018, 05:21   #52661  |  Link
chinobino
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All working great here, thx madshi!

LG 55" 4K TV
OS HDR Enabled 12-bit YCbCr 4:2:2 using HDMI 2.0a
GTX1060 on driver 411.63 WHQL
Windows 10 x64 1803
madVR v0.92.16 in D3D11 fullscreen Windowed mode (10-bit)

I was previously using 8-bit RGB Full range (via nvidia control panel) but when I switched over to 10-bit YCbCr 4:2:2 I noticed that all banding was completely gone.

I then tested 12-bit YCbCr 4:2:2 and had no issues so I'm going to stick with it for now (my TV panel is probably 8-bit with FRC, lol) even though I'm likely not gaining anything.

I have always had madVR set to remove banding artifacts (on 'high') and dithering with DX11 but the banding comes back when output is set to 8-bit RGB.

Colour accuracy vs no banding, I'll take the no banding option.
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Old 23rd September 2018, 09:03   #52662  |  Link
hajosattila
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Interesting! I try this...Thanks!

How many bits of native display bit depth output in madVR?

sorry for my bad english...

Last edited by hajosattila; 23rd September 2018 at 09:11.
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Old 23rd September 2018, 11:02   #52663  |  Link
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rules for that option:
1. never higher than what you set the display output of your graphics card to (the GPU itself would then dither down instead of madVR - bad)
2. the display output bit depth of your graphics card should be set to what you know your TV accepts and doesn't process down, otherwise your TV would also dither down instead of madVR (also bad). If you don't know for sure that second information, choose 8 bit everywhere.
(Edit: some people argue that some displays have temporal dithering (FRC) as good as madVR's dithering, but I would need to see a side-by-side test to be convinced)
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Old 23rd September 2018, 15:16   #52664  |  Link
mclingo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
You are still protesting a color change that was fixed by setting madVR to BT.2020? How exactly will this get this issue fixed?

I can’t understand why you are interested in this hobby when your PC breaks every month or so. I just play stuff almost every day and watch it. I don’t know why you seem to have so many issues.

You would have to narrow down the exact driver version and all of the exact settings to reproduce the issue and madshi would to have somehow reproduce the problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmojo666 View Post
@madshi, i'm not complaining with you, neither finger pointing. i'm just wondering if maybe it's possible to fine tuning something madvr side to make HDR auto switch more reliable.
wierd, since my problems the other day where I had to reinstall MADVR to v0.92.14, KODI DS and AMD to 18.8.1 my colour sat problem has gone away.

I've checked all my settings and nothing has changed, cant work it out at all.
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Old 23rd September 2018, 16:06   #52665  |  Link
famasfilms
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Just did a clean reinstall of windows 10, MPC-HC, Lav and MadVR.

Everything was working fine before - now I can only get HDR passthrough to my LG OLED in windowed mode, going full screen turns it off.

Is this because of new Nvidia drivers? I'm about to go out so don't have time to read the last few pages.

i5-6600
GTX 970
LG 950/9500 OLED

Edit* ticking automatic fullscreen exclusive mode brought back HDR in full screen

Last edited by famasfilms; 23rd September 2018 at 16:13.
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Old 23rd September 2018, 17:11   #52666  |  Link
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Arf, too bad. I'm about to go out too, so I don't have time to answer you.
CU !
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Old 23rd September 2018, 17:17   #52667  |  Link
Warner306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclingo View Post
wierd, since my problems the other day where I had to reinstall MADVR to v0.92.14, KODI DS and AMD to 18.8.1 my colour sat problem has gone away.

I've checked all my settings and nothing has changed, cant work it out at all.
There would be three likely reasons why BT.2020 would fix your color problem: madVR is sending BT.2020 to the display and your display is actually configured for a BT.2020/DCI-P3 color space; madVR is sending BT.2020 to the video driver and the video driver is sending BT.709 to the display; or madVR is sending BT.709 rather than BT.2020 to the video driver.

If you check the OSD, it should report what madVR thinks it is sending.
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Old 23rd September 2018, 18:35   #52668  |  Link
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I'm getting an error message trying to download the last version. Anyone else having a problem?
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Old 23rd September 2018, 18:46   #52669  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfman2791 View Post
an error message
Why don't you quote it exactly?

I don't have any issues downloading.
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Old 23rd September 2018, 19:33   #52670  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suanm View Post
second My TV set has HDR feature. So i don't think i will use any feature of HDR conversion to SDR.The purpose of using the feature 'process HDR content by using pixel shader math' is to improve image quality of HDR movies.
You will either want the TV to do tone mapping or madVR. It's probably not a good idea to let both tone map. So I'd suggest to either passthrough HDR to the display untouched. Or to let madVR do the tone mapping. The latter might give you the best quality. However, if you have an OLED display, maybe you'll not get the same brightness because from what I've read the OLED might switch to some sort of "overdrive" mode to squeeze out the last bit of possible brightness, when it receives HDR content. So if you let madVR do the tone mapping, you'll lose that overdrive mode (whether that is a good or bad thing is another question).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chouonsoku View Post
It's like I said in my post, processing via HDR -> SDR means my TV stays in SDR mode which has a lower peak brightness than the HDR mode.
Is there no way in the TV settings to get the same peak brightness in SDR mode? That would be sad!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chouonsoku View Post
It also means I have to change my SDR mode picture settings on the TV for the HDR content (Bt.2020) and then back again when I'm playing SDR content (Rec.709) instead of being able to have separate SDR and HDR picture modes like I do with the passthrough option.
I understand. Does the "report BT.2020 to display" option do anything for you? Maybe it allows you to use different presets in your TV for SDR vs HDR content, even if you let madVR do the tone mapping (HDR -> SDR conversion)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chouonsoku View Post
What is the "send HDR metadata to display" box for in this mode, by the way? I kind of assumed it was meant to submit the "new" HDR metadata that madVR maybe generates from using it's tonemapping algorithm to the TV. A lot of this was just my assumption that this mode was to put the TV into HDR mode.
Your assumptions are fully correct. The problem is that many TVs are stupid and apply tone mapping if they receive HDR video, even if it's not needed. E.g. if madVR tells the TV that the peak brightness is actually only 100nits, the TV would not have to do tone mapping, but most TVs still do it, which can screw up image quality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chouonsoku View Post
Increasing the nits doesn't fix the super strong red hue, but they have to be that low to avoid the intense black crush that also happens with the HDR process setting. It was also set to 150 / 400 to make it easier to see the red problem in the photos.
The red hue might be a bug in madVR, I'll check if I can reproduce that here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magic144 View Post
Playing back 720p HD mkv, run into new issue since (including) madVR version 0.92.15 (WASN'T present with 0.92.14 and reverting still works).

When I engage vobsub (idx/sub) subtitles via XySubFilter in Zoom Player, video freezes though audio continues. I don't get any subs. In fact the freezing only occurs at the point when the next sub would have appeared. It's non recoverable - have to restart player to restart video.
VobSub filter still works.
Plain text (SRT) subs still work in either sub filter.

Using AMD RX460 with Adrenalin 18.9.2 (latest) driver. Output is direct HDMI to Samsung monitor, 1920x1080 resolution.

Sub filters previously installed (as pair) via ZP Install Centre - reported as 3.1.0.747 via that installer.
VSFilter.dll (VobSub) shows 3.0.0.306
XySubFilter.dll (XySubFilter) shows 3.1.0.747
Zoom Player is MAX v14.4b1 (latest)

----

UPDATE: same issue occurs on different PC w/ same software setup, but with older AMD Radeon HD5670
(again, reverting to madVR 0.92.14 works)

UPDATE2 (2018-09-21): issue confirmed in BOTH full-screen and windowed playback
The issue occurs when the *first* subtitle would normally appear, is that correct? You're saying the "next" subtitle, which confuses me a bit.

Is there an easy way for me to reproduce the problem? I'm not sure if I want to install lots and lots of stuff and carefully fine tune everything to match your setup, just to be able to reproduce the issue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by aufkrawall View Post
For what it's worth: I still had the render queue not filling correctly issue with 0.92.16, it only worked in FSE. However, it seems to have disappeared after a Windows restart. Maybe you want to keep an eye out on this.

Edit: The CPU load with HDR pixel shader conversion is also a bit high, especially with highlight reconstruction.
Highlight reconstruction uses DirectCompute. Waiting for DirectCompute to complete may push one CPU core to 100%. But it's a kind of busy wait state that basically tells the OS: "I want to wait, but if you need this CPU core for something else, go ahead and do that", so it's not that one CPU core would be blocked. It can be used by the OS for any task, but it just can't go to 0% until DirectCompute has run through. So IMHO not too much of an issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blu3wh0 View Post
I'm probably going to continue using HDR pass-through as that seems the only way to utilize the higher brightness levels of my LG B7. HDR to SDR looks very good now for tone-mapping, but the brightness in SDR holds it back.
It's too bad that your LG doesn't seem to have an option to use the same brightness for SDR?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blu3wh0 View Post
I also utilize the dynamic tone-mapping on the TV to bring it closer to how it would look like in Dolby Vision. Are there any plans to add dynamic tone-mapping (if even possible) for HDR pixel processing to HDR output?
It's already there! See "measure each frame's peak luminance".

Quote:
Originally Posted by blu3wh0 View Post
Also, I didn't notice it in the profile variables, can display bitdepth output be added as a parameter?
Which display output bitdepth exactly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chinobino View Post
I was previously using 8-bit RGB Full range (via nvidia control panel) but when I switched over to 10-bit YCbCr 4:2:2 I noticed that all banding was completely gone.
That's weird, shouldn't be happening. 8bit RGB Full Range should be totally banding free (unless the source contains banding, obviously).

You do have dithering enabled in madVR? Have you tried setting your display properties manually to 8bit in the madVR settings?
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Old 23rd September 2018, 20:10   #52671  |  Link
famasfilms
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclingo View Post
new version of MADVR has fixed the 23,076 playback issue with MPC-HC, no longer hangs with black screen, wierd but great !

unfortunately I was hoping that maybe a combination of new AMD drivers and new MADVR would fix the blown out reds issue with AMD 23hz SDR playback, this really needs fixing, had this for months now with 3 different AMD cards and muliple sets of drivers and LAV / MADVR versions.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgvFafeelEBigP8JoUs9wKjRu8Ajjw


Just a reminder of the issue.

all 23,976 playback of any SDR material has blown out reds as shown in picture, but only with MADVR renderer.

• If If I turn off refresh rate switching and play in 60hz the problem goes away
• if I put my TV in PC mode the problem goes away (bluray mode used for access to TV processing)
• if I turn off use DIRECT3D for presentation in MADVR the problem goes
• if If set calibration to BT2020 in MADVR the problem goes away
• HDR material plays fine.

surely the way this problem manifests itself must ring a bell for someone?

Your PC should be in PC mode for SDR content, and Home Theatre for HDR content.

I think I mentioned this a few months ago but the other way round and you replied back then - If I watch HDR content on PC mode the colours are washed out, and very vivid (almost increased reds) in Home Theatre.

So it looks like you have the reverse problem, not sure what TV processing you need

Also not sure why you need it fixing in MadVr when by your own admission changing MadVR settings fixes it
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Old 23rd September 2018, 20:36   #52672  |  Link
magic144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
The issue occurs when the *first* subtitle would normally appear, is that correct? You're saying the "next" subtitle, which confuses me a bit.

Is there an easy way for me to reproduce the problem? I'm not sure if I want to install lots and lots of stuff and carefully fine tune everything to match your setup, just to be able to reproduce the issue...
Hi madshi,

by "next", what I meant was that I can start playing a video at any point and the playback is OK UNTIL the time when the next subtitle is to be presented, then the video hangs - i.e. if I started playing from the beginning, the video would hang at the first

For environment, all I have is Win10, AMD cards (as described), Zoom Player, LAV and XySubFilter versions as described. Playback is to monitor or TV (thru receiver) via HDMI.

Settings to use XySubFilter in ZP are:
Playback->Video->Video Renderer: MadVR
Playback->Video->Subtitles->Use XySubFilter...whenever possible: CHECKED

Extra Info:
I am NOT using MadVR Full-screen Exclusive (FSE) mode (enable automatic FSE: UNCHECKED)


Original Post
Updated to show issue found with AND without LAV HW accel engaged, and also found on Intel GPU platform too.

Last edited by magic144; 23rd September 2018 at 22:40. Reason: added link to original post
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Old 24th September 2018, 00:02   #52673  |  Link
blu3wh0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
It's too bad that your LG doesn't seem to have an option to use the same brightness for SDR?
Yup, I just went ahead and measured peak brightness for both SDR and HDR modes. I was completely surprised how maxing out OLED light and contrast still maintained a good default calibration, which could easily be perfected like my normal SDR setup for 120 nits. Anyway, HDR measured around 750 nits calibrated and SDR was only 413 nits per-calibration. This is significant enough that I would choose HDR all the time. I also went ahead and did a quick comparison between HDR to SDR in BT.2020 (which I'm surprised worked in SDR, although PC mode on my TV didn't like it so I had to switch to the one I use for HDR) against dynamically tone-mapped HDR, and it was pretty darn close aside from the brightness. Thinking this way, I'm surprised my TV's tone-mapping is actually pretty decent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
It's already there! See "measure each frame's peak luminance".
Great! Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like it would do much to help output in HDR since it sounds like it'll fight with the TV's dynamic tone-mapping. BTW, HDR pixel tone-mapped HDR output is broken in the latest version, the colors are too dark and red toned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Which display output bitdepth exactly?
The video card bit depth output. I want to configure it so that if nvidia outputs 12-bit, madVR configures for 10-bit display. If nvidia outputs 8-bit, such as for 60Hz, madVR would set the display for 8-bit. Right now I'm doing it with refresh rate, but sometimes nvidia would screw up and output 8-bit at 23Hz.
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Old 24th September 2018, 00:49   #52674  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magic144 View Post
by "next", what I meant was that I can start playing a video at any point and the playback is OK UNTIL the time when the next subtitle is to be presented, then the video hangs - i.e. if I started playing from the beginning, the video would hang at the first

For environment, all I have is Win10, AMD cards (as described), Zoom Player, LAV and XySubFilter versions as described. Playback is to monitor or TV (thru receiver) via HDMI.

Settings to use XySubFilter in ZP are:
Playback->Video->Video Renderer: MadVR
Playback->Video->Subtitles->Use XySubFilter...whenever possible: CHECKED

Extra Info:
I am NOT using MadVR Full-screen Exclusive (FSE) mode (enable automatic FSE: UNCHECKED)


Original Post
Updated to show issue found with AND without LAV HW accel engaged, and also found on Intel GPU platform too.
Can you create a debug log for me? Please try to reproduce the problem quickly, then let it stay that way for maybe 20 seconds, then close/terminate the media player.

Also, please create 2-3 freeze reports from this situation, please (Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Break, IIRC).

Quote:
Originally Posted by blu3wh0 View Post
Anyway, HDR measured around 750 nits calibrated and SDR was only 413 nits per-calibration.
Ouch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blu3wh0 View Post
Thinking this way, I'm surprised my TV's tone-mapping is actually pretty decent.
Would be interesting to stress test with specific movie/demo scenes which are known to be problematic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blu3wh0 View Post
The video card bit depth output. I want to configure it so that if nvidia outputs 12-bit, madVR configures for 10-bit display. If nvidia outputs 8-bit, such as for 60Hz, madVR would set the display for 8-bit. Right now I'm doing it with refresh rate, but sometimes nvidia would screw up and output 8-bit at 23Hz.
That sounds like something I should automatically do in madVR.
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Old 24th September 2018, 00:50   #52675  |  Link
madshi
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So here's a little HDR tone mapping comparison:

1) "Old" algorithm (v0.92.14).
2) "New" algorithm (v0.92.16+).
3) "Dumb" algorithm (used by many TVs).

Old - | - New - | - Dumb - | - Batman vs Superman (1)
Old - | - New - | - Dumb - | - Batman vs Superman (2)
Old - | - New - | - Dumb - | - Goblet of Fire
Old - | - New - | - Dumb - | - Order of the Phoenix
Old - | - New - | - Dumb - | - LG Chess Demo
Old - | - New - | - Dumb - | - Life of Pi
Old - | - New - | - Dumb - | - Life Untouched Demo
Old - | - New - | - Dumb - | - Mad Max
Old - | - New - | - Dumb - | - Pan (1)
Old - | - New - | - Dumb - | - Pan (2)
Old - | - New - | - Dumb - | - Samsung Wonderland 2 Demo
Old - | - New - | - Dumb - | - Sony Camp Demo
Old - | - New - | - Dumb - | - White Dress Demo
Old (Gamut Clip) - | - Old (RGB Clip) - | - New - | - Dumb - | - Atomic Blonde

Furthermore, I've tried to do a comparison between the latest madVR vs mpv builds (shinchiro, 2018-09-16). To level the playing field, I've added igv's SSimDownscaler script to mpv.

Interestingly, mpv shows pretty dramatic differences, depending on whether the "compute-peak" frame luminance measurements are enabled or disabled. For your interested, I'm showing you both variants. Generally, it seems that mpv produces rather dark results, at least for the stress test scenes I like to test with. So for the comparison to make more sense, I'm including not only madVR's and mpv's default target peak values, but I'm also adding a manually selected higher target nits value for madVR which roughly matches the darker images produced by mpv.

mpv 100 nits - | - mpv 100 nits with measurements - | - madVR 200 nits - | - madVR 2000 nits - | - Batman vs Superman (1)
mpv 100 nits - | - mpv 100 nits with measurements - | - madVR 200 nits - | - madVR 0450 nits - | - Batman vs Superman (2)
mpv 100 nits - | - mpv 100 nits with measurements - | - madVR 200 nits - | - madVR 1200 nits - | - Goblet of Fire
mpv 100 nits - | - mpv 100 nits with measurements - | - madVR 200 nits - | - madVR 1700 nits - | - Order of the Phoenix
mpv 100 nits - | - mpv 100 nits with measurements - | - madVR 200 nits - | - madVR 0350 nits - | - LG Chess Demo
mpv 100 nits - | - mpv 100 nits with measurements - | - madVR 200 nits - | - madVR 0800 nits - | - Life of Pi
mpv 100 nits - | - mpv 100 nits with measurements - | - madVR 200 nits - | - madVR 0700 nits - | - Life Untouched Demo
mpv 100 nits - | - mpv 100 nits with measurements - | - madVR 200 nits - | - madVR 1200 nits - | - Mad Max
mpv 100 nits - | - mpv 100 nits with measurements - | - madVR 200 nits - | - madVR 1200 nits - | - Pan (1)
mpv 100 nits - | - mpv 100 nits with measurements - | - madVR 200 nits - | - madVR 1800 nits - | - Pan (2)
mpv 100 nits - | - mpv 100 nits with measurements - | - madVR 200 nits - | - madVR 1300 nits - | - Samsung Wonderland 2 Demo
mpv 100 nits - | - mpv 100 nits with measurements - | - madVR 200 nits - | - madVR 1100 nits - | - Sony Camp Demo
mpv 100 nits - | - mpv 100 nits with measurements - | - madVR 200 nits - | - madVR 3500 nits - | - White Dress Demo
mpv 100 nits - | - mpv 100 nits with measurements - | - madVR 200 nits - | - madVR 0280 nits - | - Atomic Blonde

I've also tried tweaking mpv to produce brighter images, by reducing the target peak, but doing so results in clipping, so I can't recommend going lower than the default 100 nits. See here:

mpv 100 nits - | - mpv 50 nits - | - Life Of Pi
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Old 24th September 2018, 00:53   #52676  |  Link
NoTechi
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I am getting the JVC magenta bug with DVBViewer (50Hz) now. The magenta bug was supposed to be fixed by not sending HDR meta data. But I still get it even though I unchecked "send HDR meta data". I also noticed the "apply" button does not get active when toggeling the "send HDR meta data" checkbox. Could this be a bug?


Beside that I love the HDR improvements


NoTechi

edit
should have noted that I am on sat3 testbuild

Last edited by NoTechi; 24th September 2018 at 01:00.
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Old 24th September 2018, 02:37   #52677  |  Link
mclingo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by famasfilms View Post
Your PC should be in PC mode for SDR content, and Home Theatre for HDR content.

I think I mentioned this a few months ago but the other way round and you replied back then - If I watch HDR content on PC mode the colours are washed out, and very vivid (almost increased reds) in Home Theatre.

So it looks like you have the reverse problem, not sure what TV processing you need

Also not sure why you need it fixing in MadVr when by your own admission changing MadVR settings fixes it
not sure whats going on with yours to be honest but mines currently working ok after a full reinstall of MADVR, AMD drivers and KODI DS.

There was no way I was going to change my HDMI mode every time I wanted to play a HDR movie though mate, I would have still gone with the calibration in MADVR.

Update your SIG with your details.

give us some idea of your full setup and processing chain and lets see if we can get to the bottom of it.

Sound to me like you dont have something setup right somewhere, if colours are washed out, HDR has always worked fine in all modes for me.
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Old 24th September 2018, 08:11   #52678  |  Link
ABDO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
So here's a little HDR tone mapping comparison:

1) "Old" algorithm (v0.92.14).
2) "New" algorithm (v0.92.16+).
3) "Dumb" algorithm (used by many TVs).
WOW, the New" algorithm do great in hightlight Area

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
madVR vs mpv
i really like how the over all picture in madvr looke way more pop and more live than mpv, i have play some youtube hdr video with latest madVR build, and what i can say that you have to see to believe how stuning result that madvr tone mapping do, but Looks like madvr Insists as Always when doing thing it doing it in the best way ever, This is a wonderful work at all.

Last edited by ABDO; 24th September 2018 at 08:17.
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Old 24th September 2018, 10:13   #52679  |  Link
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@Madshi which settings (and which target peak) were you using for the new algo in your comparison? It looks overprocessed/oversharpened and I don't like what it does to the grain in the picture, for example in the background of the BvsS shot. That's not what I see here, but it might be because I don't use extreme values in the settings (I use balanced/low). Just curious to know which settings cause this. And thanks again for all your good work, it's been quite a journey to get here!
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Old 24th September 2018, 10:46   #52680  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoTechi View Post
I am getting the JVC magenta bug with DVBViewer (50Hz) now. The magenta bug was supposed to be fixed by not sending HDR meta data. But I still get it even though I unchecked "send HDR meta data". I also noticed the "apply" button does not get active when toggeling the "send HDR meta data" checkbox. Could this be a bug?
My JVC doesn't show magenta, I don't know exactly what's causing it. But IIRC you can workaround it somehow, don't remember the details, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ABDO View Post
WOW, the New" algorithm do great in hightlight Area

i really like how the over all picture in madvr looke way more pop and more live than mpv, i have play some youtube hdr video with latest madVR build, and what i can say that you have to see to believe how stuning result that madvr tone mapping do, but Looks like madvr Insists as Always when doing thing it doing it in the best way ever, This is a wonderful work at all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni View Post
@Madshi which settings (and which target peak) were you using for the new algo in your comparison? It looks overprocessed/oversharpened and I don't like what it does to the grain in the picture, for example in the background of the BvsS shot. That's not what I see here, but it might be because I don't use extreme values in the settings (I use balanced/low). Just curious to know which settings cause this. And thanks again for all your good work, it's been quite a journey to get here!
You might dislike it because it's the default value of 200nits, which is quite bright, combined with conversion to BT.709. The other settings are standard, like "balanced" color fire & explosions and "medium" highlight recovery strength.

FWIW, I believe the grain in BvsS is in the source. You'd see the same grain strength on a perfect 10,000nits display. So madVR simply faithfully reproduces it.
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direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

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