flash3kyuu_deband 1.5.1 / 2.0pre2 with native VapourSynth support [2012-12-03]

[SAPikachu]

@Gavino @jmac698
So I must revise my wording - AviSynth doesn't have some convenient language features. At least it is very hard to parse raw data directly in script. Of course there are hackish ways to do that.

@jmac698 @kolak
Adding random noise can indeed reduce banding. Actually flash3kyuu_deband does that between core debanding and dithering.

[kolak]

Can you add optional (with possibility to set strength) add noise to fkdb_dither?


Andrew

[SAPikachu]

Originally Posted by kolak

Can you add optional (with possibility to set strength) add noise to fkdb_dither?


Andrew

Actually that's what flash3kyuu_deband does. After adding high bit-depth input, it will be superset of f3kdb_dither.

[kolak]

OK- you're adding high bit-depth input for flash3kyuu_deband and than f3kdb_dither is not needed- cool

[kolak]

Not sure if it's a good place, but:

is there anyone interested to write frameserver for one of the editing software (preferably in v20 and YUY2- I believe theses are native formats for software for 10 and 8bit mode). Not for free.

Something like debugmode for Premiere/Vegas.

You can contact me via PM.

Thanks,
Andrew

[mp3dom]

The problem is that a lot of NLE internally works in RGB colorspace or have RGB filters. A YUY2/v210 output makes sense if no colorspace occurs during all the editing stage. Anyway Vegas and Premiere already can use DebugMode, Avid (and I suppose FinalCut) uses QuickTime Reference (which is similar to DebugMode).

[kolak]

Different software, which is way more stable and faster than all of them and it does work internally in YUV (maybe that's why it's so fast).


Andrew

[kolak]

Originally Posted by SAPikachu

Actually that's what flash3kyuu_deband does. After adding high bit-depth input, it will be superset of f3kdb_dither.

Done some test an additional noise does help- file from Xscaler is "smoother" than from f3kdb_dither and the difference is due to additional noise added by Xscaler filter.

flash3kyuu_deband with high bit-depth support will be very powerful

[SAPikachu]

Finally escaped from another project and get some free time.

New version should be available in 1 or 2 weeks.

[kolak]

Cool

Andrew

[mp3dom]

Awesome! I've the right project to test on

[SAPikachu]

A little update. My work has suddenly became very busy recently, I only completed about 50% of the improvement in the last 2 weeks... Need maybe several weeks more to fully implement the changes.

I also planned to add some more features to the new version:

* 9 - 15 bit output
* dynamic noise

[kolak]

Dynamic noise sounds interesting

Can't wait to see it in action.

[mp3dom]

What should do "dynamic noise"? You mean put noise only on zones where debanding take place (without adding noise to, example, a flat area of the same image)? Sounds cool! Can't wait to see how much is the gain (or detail preservation) in debanding an 8bit source vs debanding directly a 10bit source.

[SAPikachu]

Originally Posted by mp3dom

What should do "dynamic noise"? You mean put noise only on zones where debanding take place (without adding noise to, example, a flat area of the same image)? Sounds cool! Can't wait to see how much is the gain (or detail preservation) in debanding an 8bit source vs debanding directly a 10bit source.

"dynamic noise" means different noise pattern on different frames, somewhat like diff_seed but much faster. (Actually diff_seed will be replaced with that). I am finalizing the last new functionality (9 ~ 15 bit output), new version should be available in a few days. (Hope the estimation is accurate this time :P )

[mp3dom]

Fantastic! Thanks a lot!!

[Keiyakusha]

What is the possible benefit it different noise pattern over frames? For compression, all I can see is that it makes harder to compress video, and harder to preserve deband. For real-time, it will behave more like noise and pattern is not something visible by your eye anyway...

[SAPikachu]

Originally Posted by Keiyakusha

What is the possible benefit it different noise pattern over frames? For compression, all I can see is that it makes harder to compress video, and harder to preserve deband. For real-time, it will behave more like noise and pattern is not something visible by your eye anyway...

I heard from somewhere that dynamic noise is good for some videos, but I don't remember the exact theory. Anyway, it is only a switch and not very hard to implement. Just try it yourself.

[Nevilne]

It will make encoders allocate more bits to low detail areas - such as gradients.
Though if done right the dithering noise should not matter too much.

[Keiyakusha]

Originally Posted by SAPikachu

I heard from somewhere that dynamic noise is good for some videos, but I don't remember the exact theory. Anyway, it is only a switch and not very hard to implement. Just try it yourself.

Its OK I was just wondering what is the real use for it. Anyway I'm really looking for 10bit output

Originally Posted by Nevilne

It will make encoders allocate more bits to low detail areas - such as gradients.

While probably true, this only hurt compression overall. Because these bits will be wasted. Allocating more bits while pattern is static is good, but when it is dynamic more bits needed to achieve the same perceived quality level. So you'll end up taking bits from high detail areas for nothing. On the opposite way, what we want for encoding is calming down fluctuations to reduce difference between similar frames and then allocating more bits by tweaking encoder itself.