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Old 10th May 2015, 20:48   #3221  |  Link
hello_hello
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Thanks for the new version, but........

When trying to run both mmg.exe and mkvtoolnix-gui.exe on XP (downloading mkvtoolnix-32bit-7.9.0.7z) I get the following error:

Entry Point Not Found
The procedure entry point RegGetValueA could not be located in dynamic link library ADVAPI32.dll
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Old 10th May 2015, 20:54   #3222  |  Link
Mosu
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Windows versions prior to Windows Vista are not supported anymore (and haven't been for a couple of releases now).
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Old 10th May 2015, 21:21   #3223  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mosu View Post
Windows versions prior to Windows Vista are not supported anymore (and haven't been for a couple of releases now).
That's a shame indeed. A Matroska multiplexer should have nothing to do with the pesky Windows Registry, to begin with
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Old 10th May 2015, 21:36   #3224  |  Link
hello_hello
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mosu View Post
Windows versions prior to Windows Vista are not supported anymore (and haven't been for a couple of releases now).
That's odd, as I've been using MKVMergeGUI on XP. Is that mentioned in the changelog somewhere? I can't find it.

mmg.exe from (portable) versions 7.8.0, 7.7.0 and 7.6.0 all run happily on XP. Was it decided to deliberately prevent MKVMergeGUI from running on it?

The timing seems a shame, considering the final version of the new GUI isn't far away. It would have been nice to have the first "non-beta" version working on XP before XP support was dropped.

What about mkvmerge.exe? Programs such as MeGUI use it for muxing. Should I be preventing MeGUI from updating it to version 7.9.0 so I won't find MeGUI suddenly incapable of MKV muxing?

Thanks.

Edit: I tested the last part and no, MeGUI can't mux MKVs if I update MKVMerge to 7.9.0. It seems the maintainer of MeGUI might be unaware of the lack of XP support as MeGUI updated MKVMerge to 7.8.0 when it was released, but fortunately that version does work on XP so no harm there so far.

Last edited by hello_hello; 10th May 2015 at 21:54.
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Old 10th May 2015, 21:53   #3225  |  Link
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Over a year ago I've said a couple of times that I would not spend time on Windows XP support anymore. Windows XP isn't supported by Microsoft anymore either, so why should I? It's insecure, it will stay that way, and I have to set limits to what I can and do support.

I haven't done anything actively in order to prevent things from running on Windows XP. They simply turned out not to anymore, as it seems. Not supporting Windows XP simply means that I will not hunt down the reason for this.

There's a cost to such backwards compatibility. To some it may seem small, but finding the reason why e.g. mkvmerge suddenly doesn't run there anymore? Far from trivial. Maybe even impossible for me if it's due to Qt.

I usually don't mention dropping support for certain operating system versions in the ChangeLog unless there's a conscious decision involved like e.g. requiring function XYZ that's only available in OS version 29 and later. In this case no such decision was made; hence no ChangeLog entry.
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Old 10th May 2015, 22:00   #3226  |  Link
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Originally Posted by filler56789 View Post
That's a shame indeed. A Matroska multiplexer should have nothing to do with the pesky Windows Registry, to begin with
I'll confess of all the programs to drop XP support, I'd have thought a muxing program would be right at the end of the list still working when almost no other current software does, especially as Win2000 was still supported up to about a year and a half ago, but what do I know..... I don't write software.
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Old 10th May 2015, 22:06   #3227  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hello_hello View Post
That's odd, as I've been using MKVMergeGUI on XP. Is that mentioned in the changelog somewhere? I can't find it.
From the build 726's changelog:

Code:
2015-04-10  Moritz Bunkus  <moritz@bunkus.org>

* MKVToolNix GUI: enhancement: Qt's »Windows Vista« style is now used on Windows instead of the old, Windows 98-like style.
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Old 10th May 2015, 22:13   #3228  |  Link
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I'm pretty sure that that change isn't responsible. Qt draws its own controls and can make them look like anything. You can select the Vista style on Linux, the Windows 95 style on Vista or the Linux style on Windows 8.
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Old 10th May 2015, 22:21   #3229  |  Link
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Apologies for the bad guess.
Anyway, so it's time to finally move house to my Windows 7 (yuck) machine...
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Old 10th May 2015, 22:25   #3230  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Mosu View Post
Over a year ago I've said a couple of times that I would not spend time on Windows XP support anymore. Windows XP isn't supported by Microsoft anymore either, so why should I?
There's the "new GUI is just around the corner" reason for continuing XP support until the first stable version is released. That'd at least allow XP users to run one version of the new GUI for the rest of eternity.
Honestly, I get some of the reasons for not supporting XP, but when it comes to Microsoft not supporting it I have no idea what one has to do with the other, given more people still use XP than Vista and Windows 8 and Windows 8.1 combined (according to Wikipedia and the breakdown of computers connected to the internet, although I suspect there's an even larger number of PCs still running XP that aren't used for browsing). I think that should carry more weight than Microsoft's fiscal policy, but I don't write software.....

(I've run XP without a software firewall, without an antivirus program, without an anti-anything program for years without getting infected, just me, Firefox, XP and a router, so I honestly don't get the "insecure" argument either, but that's a whole other debate....... )

I just see it as a bit of a pity no software writers seem to take a stand a say "well that new version of Windows is a piece of %^#$ and I won't support it", instead helping to force people to upgrade their non piece of %^$% Windows version instead, but as I said, what do I know? I don't write software......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mosu View Post
I usually don't mention dropping support for certain operating system versions in the ChangeLog unless there's a conscious decision involved
Now I'm aware of that I'll assume any new version of mkvtoolnix will fail to work without warning unless I'm running the latest version of Windows and upgrade it far more cautiously in the future.

Thanks.

PS. I'm not trying to appear ungrateful, or demanding (hence all the smileys), and it's your time to spend as you so choose, and mkvtoolnix is very, very, very much appreciated as I use it pretty much daily (one of the reasons no support for XP is disappointing for me as even when I build a new Win7 PC in the near future the old PCs will still continue to run XP), but I'm just offering a "user" perspective...... as someone who doesn't write software it's the only one I've got.

Last edited by hello_hello; 10th May 2015 at 23:38.
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Old 11th May 2015, 05:58   #3231  |  Link
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Can anyone point me to the proper QT 'library' to install to get the new GUI? I've installed 5.4.1 and am stil getting the old one on Win 8.1. Thx.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ndjamena View Post
If you came into this sometime in the future, when the Stat tags were fully mature and hidden, would you care if they were there or not or are you just making arguments based on prejudices caused by the current situation?
I don't have any use for stats either and since I'm not sure how they may affect playback on standalones, I've turned them off just as I have done with the cue tags.

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Originally Posted by Zenitram View Post
And I apologize for that. It will be past soon.
While you're at it would you mind and reconsider outputting reports with ALT+E to the same dir as the file the report is written on? It still makes no sense to have this written to the program dir of all places. Thx.
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Old 11th May 2015, 07:49   #3232  |  Link
Mosu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chetwood View Post
Can anyone point me to the proper QT 'library' to install to get the new GUI? I've installed 5.4.1 and am stil getting the old one on Win 8.1. Thx.
You don't have to install Qt yourself. All you have to do is execute mkvtoolnix-gui.exe instead of mmg.exe (start menu entry »MKVToolNix GUI«).
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Old 11th May 2015, 08:34   #3233  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hello_hello View Post
There's the "new GUI is just around the corner" reason for continuing XP support until the first stable version is released. That'd at least allow XP users to run one version of the new GUI for the rest of eternity.
Honestly, I get some of the reasons for not supporting XP, but when it comes to Microsoft not supporting it I have no idea what one has to do with the other, given more people still use XP than Vista and Windows 8 and Windows 8.1 combined (according to Wikipedia and the breakdown of computers connected to the internet, although I suspect there's an even larger number of PCs still running XP that aren't used for browsing). I think that should carry more weight than Microsoft's fiscal policy, but I don't write software.....

(I've run XP without a software firewall, without an antivirus program, without an anti-anything program for years without getting infected, just me, Firefox, XP and a router, so I honestly don't get the "insecure" argument either, but that's a whole other debate....... )

I just see it as a bit of a pity no software writers seem to take a stand a say "well that new version of Windows is a piece of %^#$ and I won't support it", instead helping to force people to upgrade their non piece of %^$% Windows version instead, but as I said, what do I know? I don't write software......



Now I'm aware of that I'll assume any new version of mkvtoolnix will fail to work without warning unless I'm running the latest version of Windows and upgrade it far more cautiously in the future.

Thanks.

PS. I'm not trying to appear ungrateful, or demanding (hence all the smileys), and it's your time to spend as you so choose, and mkvtoolnix is very, very, very much appreciated as I use it pretty much daily (one of the reasons no support for XP is disappointing for me as even when I build a new Win7 PC in the near future the old PCs will still continue to run XP), but I'm just offering a "user" perspective...... as someone who doesn't write software it's the only one I've got.
Why should Microsoft continue supporting an OS from 2001? It seems counter-intuitive insisting on having the latest MKV tools if you are still running at ancient OS (it is ancient).

Microsoft is going to a continuous support model starting with Windows 10. So, if you don't want to be left out, upgrade to Windows 10 when it comes out . It might not be called Windows 10 in 6 years, but you will have an upgrade path from base Windows 10.

Continuous support of XP is just an encouragement for people to stick with XP, and is a waste of money and resources.

Also, how do you know you don't have any malicious software on your computer if you don't have any means of knowing it is there?
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Old 11th May 2015, 08:51   #3234  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hello_hello View Post
Honestly, I get some of the reasons for not supporting XP, but when it comes to Microsoft not supporting it I have no idea what one has to do with the other, given more people still use XP than Vista and Windows 8 and Windows 8.1 combined (according to Wikipedia and the breakdown of computers connected to the internet, although I suspect there's an even larger number of PCs still running XP that aren't used for browsing).
Those stats are mostly tainted by companies who got stuck because they use some equally ancient software. Its unfortunate, but we do not have stats on "personal" PCs alone.

On the topic at hand, especially when developing a new UI, trying to support XP gets rather annoying fast, as there are a whole bunch of new things you can use if you don't, so I wouldn't expect especially new software to support XP at all anymore. Who would want to spend extra time on that?
(PS: its not limited to UI either, there is a long list of things that got improved in the win32 API in later versions of windows, from UI, to threading, to file access)

Personally for myself, I'll drop XP support the moment it can save me a couple hours time or a few headaches to do so. If i were to write something new, I would never even bother to try to support it at all.
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Old 11th May 2015, 10:06   #3235  |  Link
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Supporting XP also means having an XP system, and even if it's a VM it can still be a pain to trot it out to re-run your testing and debugging on it every build. If you care about such things and don't have a Win7 Pro/Enterprise, that might also mean licensing costs. XP users have to realize that they're the burden now, and they can't just argue for support, it's become pony up cash or watch software pass you by. It's almost as ridiculous as IanB sticking to VC6 until just a couple of years ago.

Mosu most likely has better stats on his userbase than anyone else, anyway, no matter what the wide world looks like. I guess it's time to make a big red banner on the update post that XP is reported to not work.
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Old 11th May 2015, 10:37   #3236  |  Link
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Quote:
one of the reasons no support for XP is disappointing for me as even when I build a new Win7 PC
Are you seriously saying you want to upgrade from the old WinXP to the new WinXP (Win7 == new WinXP)? Here in Germany Win7 still costs minimum 60€, the real retail Version (no Dell crap that is often pirated I believe) is still above 100€ I believe. Win10 on the other hand is free for Windows Insiders and for the first year and as long as you don't have to reinstall you can use it for free for ten years or more. Some might think the first year is free like the first heroin is free and it might be true that after the first year it will be as expensive as MS office is now but it's still likely possible to run it the next ten years for free.
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Old 11th May 2015, 10:42   #3237  |  Link
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Folks please. This is not a thread about a general discussion between the pros and cons of various Windows versions. A couple of points have been made. Please let's leave it at that and return to the thread's intended topic: MKVToolNix.

Thanks.
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Old 11th May 2015, 12:38   #3238  |  Link
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So, what exactly caused the XP incompatibility? Some library update or just a simple compiler switch? Esp. if it's the latter it could be useful for people looking into building their own XP-compatible binaries.

(Disclaimer: I don't use anything older than Win 7)
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Old 11th May 2015, 12:44   #3239  |  Link
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I don't know. Figuring that out is part of the cost of that »support for Windows XP« thingy.
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Old 11th May 2015, 15:59   #3240  |  Link
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New chapter editor... Can it auto-select the first name in the list when a chapter is highlighted? This is painful.

(or the first one the first time and the closest to the currently selected the next time... or whatever, just not this.)
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