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Old 9th January 2019, 03:55   #54181  |  Link
glc650
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Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
Sounds like an AMD driver bug then. As scaling for TV overscan compensation is one of the very last driver steps before sending out the picture, it may explain the presentation glitches.
Have you tried exclusive mode? Does your TV really not have any mode with no overscan, even an hidden one like in a service menu or something?
If it was an AMD bug wouldn't this have shown up on my previous AMD based card though?

I tried exclusive mode but it made no difference.

My TV is pretty old (Mitsubishi LaserView, purchased in '08) and doesn't have many options. The video format options it does has are more for people dealing with black borders or 4:3 content. And I only have slight (1 or 2 letters cutoff on the madvr ODR) overscan on all 4 sides. Not really noticeable when I'm watching something but enough to make navigating Windows fun.
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Old 9th January 2019, 04:23   #54182  |  Link
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Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post
SHowever, my basement ATI 7870xt isn't showing the measure screen nit and the highlight restoration seems to have no effect.. is it not hooking into the old gpu's direct compute ?
without knowing your setup i can only guess.

@glc650

look into the AMD driver for something similar to adjust desktop size and position that nvidia has.

this option is creating a smaller moved image not by scaling it down like an underscan but by creating a new resolution so everything stays bit perfect on the PC side which is preferable worth a shoot my fix the presentation issue.
what type of windows version are you running and can you make a screen of your OSD.
forced over scan is sadly a not unusually for older screens.
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Old 9th January 2019, 09:00   #54183  |  Link
glc650
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@glc650

look into the AMD driver for something similar to adjust desktop size and position that nvidia has.

this option is creating a smaller moved image not by scaling it down like an underscan but by creating a new resolution so everything stays bit perfect on the PC side which is preferable worth a shoot my fix the presentation issue.
what type of windows version are you running and can you make a screen of your OSD.
forced over scan is sadly a not unusually for older screens.
I'm not sure how to do this. There is a "Custom Resolutions" section in what is left of the Catalyst Control Center settings but I'm not sure what to input. I'm already running at 1920x1080 according to both Windows Display Properties and AMD CCC/Radeon settings.

edit: enabling the option in CCC made it available in Radeon Settings (see pic)
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnsGKXR_EKR0hCYcEtxKSYFM0GeS
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Last edited by glc650; 9th January 2019 at 09:10.
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Old 9th January 2019, 12:40   #54184  |  Link
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I seem to be going backwards some days with the HDR side.

What seems to be the most constant nVidia drivers for toggling HDR ?

It seems it all depends on which way the wind is blowing, I did have no issues, but now it does toggle with no TV indication and I have to re-select the input on my TV for it to actually display ? I have tried various drivers, some work, then stop, I think the hard part is its mostly indications on my TV I am having issues with as it does look to go to HDR as such, as when I reslect the TV input and the HDR Signal comes on the screen, nothing changes apart from the feedback I get from the TV on colour space.
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Old 9th January 2019, 13:00   #54185  |  Link
huhn
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Originally Posted by glc650 View Post
I'm not sure how to do this. There is a "Custom Resolutions" section in what is left of the Catalyst Control Center settings but I'm not sure what to input. I'm already running at 1920x1080 according to both Windows Display Properties and AMD CCC/Radeon settings.

edit: enabling the option in CCC made it available in Radeon Settings (see pic)
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnsGKXR_EKR0hCYcEtxKSYFM0GeS
i don't use AMD cards right now i don't even know if they have something like this it would just be a little bit more disappointing then usual if they don't have this. a custom resolution may work to.

you didn't say what windows version this is but you seem to have 2 displays and this can create a lot of presentation glitches.
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Old 9th January 2019, 13:42   #54186  |  Link
Klaus1189
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Originally Posted by madjock View Post
I seem to be going backwards some days with the HDR side.

What seems to be the most constant nVidia drivers for toggling HDR ?

It seems it all depends on which way the wind is blowing, I did have no issues, but now it does toggle with no TV indication and I have to re-select the input on my TV for it to actually display ? I have tried various drivers, some work, then stop, I think the hard part is its mostly indications on my TV I am having issues with as it does look to go to HDR as such, as when I reslect the TV input and the HDR Signal comes on the screen, nothing changes apart from the feedback I get from the TV on colour space.
Try 18.11.2 and do a complete uninstall of currently installed driver.
This is the first time an AMD driver makes some trouble, on Nvidia side I had already more than 5 times trouble with driver.

@all: Do you think a dedicated thread for driver versions and its issues of AMD/Intel and Nvidia would be a nice idea?
Then you don't have to look up one specific post of this monster thread.
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Old 9th January 2019, 13:48   #54187  |  Link
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If you wanted to maintain a thread on driver versions, go ahead. You would likely get few reports to verify if the reports are true or false for everyone.
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Old 9th January 2019, 13:54   #54188  |  Link
madjock
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If you wanted to maintain a thread on driver versions, go ahead. You would likely get few reports to verify if the reports are true or false for everyone.
Especially when I was asking about nVidia drivers
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Old 9th January 2019, 15:08   #54189  |  Link
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4K HDR pixel shader, gamma settings

I remember that madshi said that 4K HDR pixel shader internally uses 2.2 gamma. Is there any "hard" rule what gamma (2.2/2.4/bt1886/etc) should be used in the actual device? Or is it like with SDR content?

Btw, here's the current state of madVR in this regard: image comparison
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Old 9th January 2019, 15:21   #54190  |  Link
huhn
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the brightness level of the none compressed parts match at gamma 2.2.

so if you want the correct brightness levels you set this screen is already calibrated to your screens response where unlike SDR madVR will automatic change your "gamma" for HDR sources to 2.2.

as i said before i'm not a friend of this inconsistent behaviour between HDR and SDR.
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Old 9th January 2019, 16:49   #54191  |  Link
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
the brightness level of the none compressed parts match at gamma 2.2.

so if you want the correct brightness levels you set this screen is already calibrated to your screens response where unlike SDR madVR will automatic change your "gamma" for HDR sources to 2.2.

as i said before i'm not a friend of this inconsistent behaviour between HDR and SDR.
What does this mean ?

I have a rec709 3dlut (2.4 gamma)

I turn on pixel shader hdr->sdr

The shader outputs 2.2 gamma, then the rec 709 lut brings it down to 2.4 gamma ?

Or does everything still come out at 2.2 ?

Should I make a rec709 lut for 2.2 gamma ?
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Old 9th January 2019, 17:20   #54192  |  Link
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in this case it kind of needs a 2.2 3D LUT to make correct brightness levels that match HDR. madVR has to assume it'2 2.2 not sure if newer version can read from the 3D LUT what gamma it uses or if this is present in the 3D LUT at all.
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Old 9th January 2019, 17:20   #54193  |  Link
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Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post
What does this mean ?

I have a rec709 3dlut (2.4 gamma)

I turn on pixel shader hdr->sdr

The shader outputs 2.2 gamma, then the rec 709 lut brings it down to 2.4 gamma ?

Or does everything still come out at 2.2 ?

Should I make a rec709 lut for 2.2 gamma ?
fhoech (Displaycal):
<<For SDR, madVR doesn't alter relative luminance of the original signal at all (unless you enable gamma processing or choose "this display is calibrated to" with a gamma that is not 2.2), so if a calibration 3D LUT is used that really is the only thing (apart from the display itself) that affects the resulting tone response (and if not using a 3D LUT, the display itself is the only thing affecting relative luminance of the decoded signal).
For HDR to SDR, madVR decodes the signal with SMPTE 2084 (PQ), applies BT.2390 roll-off and re-scaling using the chosen target peak nits, and then re-encodes to gamma 2.2, and then feeds it into any SDR calibration 3D LUT. So, in both cases, a gamma 2.4 SDR calibration 3D LUT makes the result darker compared to a gamma 2.2 SDR calibration 3D LUT. For SDR, this may be the desired effect (e.g. BT.1886 on an OLED results in an effective 2.4 pure power curve), but for HDR PQ, which is based on absolute luminance, this effect is undesirable.>>

So you should make an rec709 lut for 2.2 gamma.
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Old 9th January 2019, 22:19   #54194  |  Link
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Originally Posted by sat4all View Post
fhoech (Displaycal):
<<For SDR, madVR doesn't alter relative luminance of the original signal at all (unless you enable gamma processing or choose "this display is calibrated to" with a gamma that is not 2.2), so if a calibration 3D LUT is used that really is the only thing (apart from the display itself) that affects the resulting tone response (and if not using a 3D LUT, the display itself is the only thing affecting relative luminance of the decoded signal).
For HDR to SDR, madVR decodes the signal with SMPTE 2084 (PQ), applies BT.2390 roll-off and re-scaling using the chosen target peak nits, and then re-encodes to gamma 2.2, and then feeds it into any SDR calibration 3D LUT. So, in both cases, a gamma 2.4 SDR calibration 3D LUT makes the result darker compared to a gamma 2.2 SDR calibration 3D LUT. For SDR, this may be the desired effect (e.g. BT.1886 on an OLED results in an effective 2.4 pure power curve), but for HDR PQ, which is based on absolute luminance, this effect is undesirable.>>

So you should make an rec709 lut for 2.2 gamma.

You make I understand. I thank you !!
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Old 9th January 2019, 22:36   #54195  |  Link
glc650
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i don't use AMD cards right now i don't even know if they have something like this it would just be a little bit more disappointing then usual if they don't have this. a custom resolution may work to.

you didn't say what windows version this is but you seem to have 2 displays and this can create a lot of presentation glitches.
The option exists with AMD (see the pic I posted). Most of what I read online seems to be adding custom resolutions for resolutions that aren't there in the first place. I'm already using the default 1920x1080 so I'm just not sure what I would fill out for all the values.

Latest Windows 10 pro. One of the monitors (shows up as #1 under Windows) is actually a display port to hdmi adapter w/HDMI cable going to my AVR (my AVR is too old to use as a switch). The actual monitor being used is of course my TV (via standard HDMI cable).

Last edited by glc650; 9th January 2019 at 22:39.
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Old 9th January 2019, 23:04   #54196  |  Link
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The option exists with AMD (see the pic I posted). Most of what I read online seems to be adding custom resolutions for resolutions that aren't there in the first place. I'm already using the default 1920x1080 so I'm just not sure what I would fill out for all the values.

Latest Windows 10 pro. One of the monitors (shows up as #1 under Windows) is actually a display port to hdmi adapter w/HDMI cable going to my AVR (my AVR is too old to use as a switch). The actual monitor being used is of course my TV (via standard HDMI cable).
out of interest why are you using scaling if you are using the default 1080p, dont you just need to use normal scaling to full panel?

Have to admit I dont know much about this, havent had to scale anything for a decade or more and ive never even seen that slider in my settings.
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Old 10th January 2019, 00:29   #54197  |  Link
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out of interest why are you using scaling if you are using the default 1080p, dont you just need to use normal scaling to full panel?

Have to admit I dont know much about this, havent had to scale anything for a decade or more and ive never even seen that slider in my settings.
The image is not displayed perfectly (it's cutoff/offscreen a bit on all 4 sides) on my TV. I was using the HDMI Scaling option in Radeon Settings to make this more livable. Without it, things like mpc-hc's status bar are cutoff to where it is hard to read the time indicator. And the first couple letters of the madvr stats are cutoff and the Windows start button is only half visable. And the X to close windows is partially cutoff. My TV's horiz/vert adjustments (available in PC or game mode) only allow for moving the entire imagine up/down and left/right buth with those controls and HDMI Scaling set to 3% I am able to basically make all the stuff in the examples above fully viewable again with only the outermost parts of the image un-viewable.

Last edited by glc650; 10th January 2019 at 00:32.
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Old 10th January 2019, 03:41   #54198  |  Link
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What are your presentation times in madVR stats? Do they increase when the 3% overscan compensation is enabled?
You could try lowering some madVR setting for rendering and see if it improves things? Maybe if the rendering + presentation is too close to frame time it can cause problems when the GPU has to do overscan compensation on top.

I don't know why the issue appeared when you just changed from one Radeon to a newer one, maybe the newer one is using a different way to do overscan compensation.
Is it exactly the same driver? Did you try doing a total driver cleanup with DDU and then reinstalling it?
Edit: did you try a reset to defaults of madVR settings and then reconfiguring it manually?
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Old 10th January 2019, 04:00   #54199  |  Link
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Originally Posted by glc650 View Post
The option exists with AMD (see the pic I posted). Most of what I read online seems to be adding custom resolutions for resolutions that aren't there in the first place. I'm already using the default 1920x1080 so I'm just not sure what I would fill out for all the values.
that a screen of the custom res that not what i'm talking about. this may work but there is no way to know for me the number you have to type in.
i would use screen shoot technic to figure the numbers out with some simple math. nvidia has an on screen guide to do that where you just have to line up some lines and every console too. AMD should have something like this too but i can'T check.
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Latest Windows 10 pro. One of the monitors (shows up as #1 under Windows) is actually a display port to hdmi adapter w/HDMI cable going to my AVR (my AVR is too old to use as a switch). The actual monitor being used is of course my TV (via standard HDMI cable).
so "one of your monitors" soi you have 2 or more?
i still need a screen shoot of the OSD to get a better picture.
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Old 10th January 2019, 07:44   #54200  |  Link
glc650
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that a screen of the custom res that not what i'm talking about. this may work but there is no way to know for me the number you have to type in.
i would use screen shoot technic to figure the numbers out with some simple math. nvidia has an on screen guide to do that where you just have to line up some lines and every console too. AMD should have something like this too but i can'T check.
Sorry I don't follow.

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so "one of your monitors" soi you have 2 or more?
No. I only have one monitor/tv/display hooked up. But I also have an AVR hooked up (but for audio only).

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i still need a screen shoot of the OSD to get a better picture.
What OSD? The TVs?
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