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27th November 2016, 12:52 | #40761 | Link |
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Wow you guys really have a passionate hatred for gsync! Quite surprised to find this in a place supposedly dedicated to video fidelity. I'm guessing you've never actually owned one of these monitors and don't really have any experience with it and/or realise the benefits. Strange, oh well.
Managing frame pacing should not be a problem - multiple frames can be pre-rendered in advance in D3D mode and the monitor matches the render queue not windows 16.7ms time slices. Remember we are in D3D mode, otherwise all 3D mode graphics would snap to the nearest 16.7ms and varisync would not work. With varisync you can fluctuate rapidly between multiple framerates and it is seamless so it doesn't actually matter if the frame pacing is a bit off, that's what makes it so good. Besides the frame pacing is perfect in full screen mode already so it's probably 2 lines of code to enable the same D3D mode for windowed. But I see Madshi hates it so it'll never happen, oh well. Last edited by flossy_cake; 27th November 2016 at 12:55. |
27th November 2016, 12:56 | #40762 | Link |
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This was discussed several times before, and the core rendering logic of madVR is not compatible with G-SYNC (or FreeSync for that matter), since it relies on constant V-SYNC intervals for timing the video frames. With G-SYNC it would have to do its own timing, as V-SYNC doesn't exist anymore. Its not like a game where it can just render more or less frames depending on how fast everything runs.
Feel free to search the topic, it has been discussed several times and madshi has commented several times as well that such modes are not planned to be supported anytime soon, as it would require drastic changes to the rendering logic. V-SYNC has key advantages to video rendering because its a hardware driven interrupt system, no need for inaccurate timers and hope they are correct. huhn already linked a reply from madshi in an earlier post, so refer to that for the word from madVRs author: http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?...ostcount=29243 (Yes we're aware that by now G-SYNC works through HDMI, but TVs still don't exist that do that)
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LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders Last edited by nevcairiel; 27th November 2016 at 13:01. |
27th November 2016, 12:58 | #40763 | Link |
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G-Sync has no benefit in MadVR buddy.
Movies are delivered in a static framerate, V-Sync handles this exactly like G-Sync would in the same situation. The only difference is if you would drop frames, that's when G-Sync would improve things a little, but who watches movies with dropped frames? |
27th November 2016, 13:08 | #40764 | Link |
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XTrojan that's the thing and point nvidia enhances render stability of Windows by shifting the whole issue from the OS to their driver taking control
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all my compares are riddles so please try to decipher them yourselves :) It is about Time Join the Revolution NOW before it is to Late ! http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=168004 Last edited by CruNcher; 27th November 2016 at 13:11. |
27th November 2016, 13:13 | #40765 | Link | |
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Quote:
However, as madshi already pointed out in the past, one of the main obstacles to using G-Sync to improve video playback is that the set of video displays that support G-Sync (typically, gaming monitors) and the set of video displays that are typically used for video playback (HDTVs, projectors) do not overlap. In other words G-Sync support would only benefit people who critically watch videos on a gaming monitor, which is a very small niche, even among madVR users (which is already a small niche). There was some excitement in the past about FreeSync being part of new HDMI specs, and one could speculate that it would make sense to support variable sync in HDTVs because game consoles could use it, but despite that, I have never seen an HDTV with variable sync support, nor have I seen any manufacturer interest in it. Maybe after the dust settles around HDR, one could hope… |
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27th November 2016, 13:16 | #40766 | Link | |
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Quote:
Also Microsoft has other priorities getting HDR and 10 bit by default into Windows now and VFR is absolutely left to the IHVs for now battling out a mature approach.
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all my compares are riddles so please try to decipher them yourselves :) It is about Time Join the Revolution NOW before it is to Late ! http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=168004 Last edited by CruNcher; 27th November 2016 at 13:22. |
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27th November 2016, 13:23 | #40767 | Link | |||
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I fully accept that gsync will not be getting support and will not be asking for it any further, but I want to correct some misinformation as it really annoys me:
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https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/lib...(v=vs.85).aspx I suppose I could set it up for vsync fixed refresh mode and have MPC-HC automatically switch modes per file, but that is a lot of mode switching with youtube videos |
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27th November 2016, 13:24 | #40768 | Link |
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Issue when using Exclusive mode Dx11 with 60 Hz
Using many players when I use 59 Hz on my TV Philips 7007 the exclusive black flash is instant when going in and out of the video.
When using 60 Hz the black flash is almost 2 sec for no reason. The video still shows 60 Hz on the Display and Composition rate, it doesn't seem to change refresh rate while entering exclusive mode. Does anyone have any idea how to fix it ? it's annoying to go out and in the video when it's 2 sec instead instant. |
27th November 2016, 13:30 | #40769 | Link | |
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Either it has to work perfectly, or its not worth using. Windows is not a real-time OS, even with a infinite resolution timer there are no guarantees that you can actually act in that exact moment. VSYNC on ther other hand is a hardware interrupt, it has all the guarantees. Considering 99.9% of all content is fixed refresh rate, just switching your screen refresh is a much easier solution.
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LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders Last edited by nevcairiel; 27th November 2016 at 13:33. |
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27th November 2016, 13:33 | #40770 | Link | |
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A developers goal should be allways to deliver Performance to alleviate this clean code perfect timing. You as a customer now pay for that a currently to high Premium price, but you can't really expect every Dev to change his mind about that unless maybe they get a share of that money from Nvidia to implement and support it from the money you spend on it And you can be sure not everyone will agree that currently this is the right path to go longterm improving the situation instead for the masses only for a small paying brainwashed portion of it.
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all my compares are riddles so please try to decipher them yourselves :) It is about Time Join the Revolution NOW before it is to Late ! http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=168004 Last edited by CruNcher; 27th November 2016 at 13:55. |
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27th November 2016, 13:41 | #40771 | Link | |
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Quote:
Also people that go through all that usually have several hobbies and get good monitors/tvs(fun fact: recent asus gaming IPS monitors have better color quality than most 60hz IPS models, according to tft central). Then there is social factor: anime, tv, videogames at the same time attract special kind of crowd. I for example do everything on my MG279q and have no wish for HTPC. Just a thought, I may be 180' wrong on this. |
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27th November 2016, 14:25 | #40773 | Link | |||
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Depends on your definition of "works", I suppose. madVR does not actually leverage G-Sync, it's just not broken by it - you get the same end result whether G-Sync is enabled or not. So it's kinda misleading to say that it "works", IMHO.
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I think you are confused about how madVR works today. It's not a video game. With fixed V-Sync, madVR doesn't have to worry about maintaining an accurate 16.7ms interval - it just hands the next frame to the GPU well in advance (typically 8 frames in advance, IIRC, with the default settings), and it's the responsibility of the GPU hardware to display these frames on a regular 16.7ms interval, using its own hardware clock, with no interaction with the OS or madVR. There is no need to worry about "frames arriving a few milliseconds late/early" today. It's the opposite: it's when G-Sync is used that you need to worry, see below. Quote:
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Now, if there was a way to prepare the frames on the GPU and then tell the GPU to present them at a very specific rate using its own hardware clock, then that would be usable (and ideal) for video, and that's something that (I'm guessing) madVR could use. Unfortunately, unless I missed something, there is no way to do this, at least not with the APIs that the GPUs currently provide. I think you misunderstood my point. My point was, most people who are in this case (i.e. take the time to learn how to use madVR, worry about cadence…) do not typically use gaming monitors to play their videos on. Instead they use large HDTVs or projection systems, which don't support G-Sync. It's a bit weird to spend all this time getting to the perfect playback system only to use it on a 28" gamer-optimized panel just because it has G-Sync. I'm sure there are people in this case, but it's a very small niche, even among madVR users. Last edited by e-t172; 27th November 2016 at 14:35. |
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27th November 2016, 14:57 | #40774 | Link |
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I'm not sure this is necessarily true, IIRC a VSync interrupt does exist but Windows display drivers are not required to implement it or have it active, and Direct3D 9 as far as I know doesn't use it (even with D3DPRESENT_INTERVAL_ONE it just sets the thread granularity to 1ms so it's a best effort sort of thing). Maybe the compositor (DWM) on newer versions of Windows does make use of it; I've always thought it was annoying how user mode threads can't be woken up by interrupts, but kernel mode threads at least can.
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Test patterns: Grayscale yuv444p16le perceptually spaced gradient v2.1 (8-bit version), Multicolor yuv444p16le perceptually spaced gradient v2.1 (8-bit version) Last edited by Ver Greeneyes; 27th November 2016 at 14:59. |
27th November 2016, 15:11 | #40775 | Link |
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If you're seeking perfect playback without switching refresh rate constantly, G-Sync is not a solution, instead, get a 120Hz monitor or a TV, put it at 120Hz, 24/30/60Hz youtube videos will now playback without issue. One exception is 25/50Hz content which will jitter.
There is no solution today to get perfect playback for every video with all variable frame rates out there, VFR is also outdated and no Movie directors so far plan to use it. The only situation is if you want to combine several clips with variable frame rates in which VFR can serve useful. Last edited by XTrojan; 27th November 2016 at 15:14. |
27th November 2016, 15:32 | #40776 | Link |
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madVR 0.91.1
test @GTX1080 & RX480
(no SR) I think NGU is like NNEDI3+SR ,but NGU rendering time is less than NNEDI3+SR NGU is great! Last edited by leo91531; 27th November 2016 at 15:41. Reason: incorrect character |
27th November 2016, 15:37 | #40777 | Link |
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Nice compare even if totally unfair from the GPU side
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all my compares are riddles so please try to decipher them yourselves :) It is about Time Join the Revolution NOW before it is to Late ! http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=168004 Last edited by CruNcher; 27th November 2016 at 15:40. |
27th November 2016, 17:06 | #40779 | Link | |
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Quote:
with freesync you could watch it at frame double 48hz, which means no alternating frame repeats and consistent movement |
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27th November 2016, 17:15 | #40780 | Link | |
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TVs which accept 120hz input will not exist on the other hand anytime soon, since no content is produced in that frame rate |
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direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling |
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