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#2761 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 753
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I think I see what you mean, but those aren't really the kind of gradients that need debanding. The most obvious bands occur when the total difference is 1 over a distance of 10 or more pixels, which would make the average difference less than 0.1.
Besides in the example you gave, 10 pixels spanning a total of 13 values, there might be a difference greater than 1 between several (at least 3) of those pixels but the difference between their rounded values and their actual value is at most 1 (or 0.5 if they were always rounded to the nearest value). True you can allow a debanding filter to change the value of a pixel by more than 1, but in my opinion that means you've started to remove noise and not just banding. FWIW the current versions of my debanding script use statistical properties to try to distinguish between rounding errors and detail, which essentially make it impossible to simply allow it to remove slightly more 'noise'. This is a limitation that is caused by designing an algorithm specifically to remove rounding errors. If you used a general denoiser at a very low strength you should be able to simply dial up the strength to remove more noise, but those algorithm have the disadvantage that they're not as good at distinguishing between rounding errors and detail, so you might need to remove more detail in order to remove all banding. What I'm trying to say is that both type of algorithms have their uses, but they do different things. Trying to use a debander to remove noise or a denoiser to remove banding might work but the result will be far from perfect. |
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#2763 | Link |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,812
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Ok, D3D9 and 11 look identical now (I also tested render scripts).
MPDN still looks different to madVR with colors. MPDN is a bit closer to EVR CP of MPC HC, but they are different though. MPDN: ![]() madVR: ![]() EVR CP of MPC HC (ignore chroma scaling and just look at the wall behind the stairs): ![]() Royal question: Who is right? madVR is known to be suitable for exact calibration. However, this doesn't have to be a guarantee. What's the experts' opinion? Edit: There is also a huge difference with the brown-orange carpet. EVR-sync looks very close to madVR: ![]() Last edited by aufkrawall; 28th July 2015 at 13:53. |
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#2764 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,679
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Quote:
A few edges and areas there with reasonable differences which would be still hard to notice, but there's generally a 1/1/1 or 2/2/2 difference which wouldn't be noticeable. I do favor the MPDN image here up close simply because of the pixel detail. Would it make a shred of difference while watching video, nope. Would be interesting to see a slightly sharper madVR upscaler for comparison. Last edited by ryrynz; 28th July 2015 at 14:19. |
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#2765 | Link |
Suptitle, MediaPlayer.NET
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,721
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On my monitor, I really can't see any difference between EVR and MPDN. To rule out any rounding differences, try enabling dithering and see if you find the difference smaller.
As I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong), calibration needs to be done for a specific renderer, doesn't it? |
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#2768 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 8,290
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Quote:
3d is an exception most people on earth don't care about 3D anyway. |
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#2769 | Link | ||
Registered Developer
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,140
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Ideally, every render would produce exactly the same (= correct) colors. If that were true, one calibration should suffice for all renderers. In real life things are not always as perfect. There are even standalone Blu-Ray players which produce slightly different colors. So sometimes in real life a calibration needs to be done per source device (or renderer). But of course that's not how it should be, in an ideal world. |
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#2770 | Link | ||||
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,812
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Quote:
What I notice, apart from that slight color difference, is that below the headband of the girl, there's a green square with madVR which isn't there with MPDN. Most interesting is that it's always there with madVR and never with MPDN, no matter which scaling algorithm is used. ![]() Quote:
With NNEDI3 quadrupling via OpenCL there's not a real difference either, apart from colors. Quote:
The difference between EVR CP and MPDN is veery small, but it's there. I just checked in a dimmed room. However, since it's so small, it could be related to chroma upscaling. This could also apply to madVR and EVR-sync. We could say we have to groups here: EVR-CP and MPDN on the one side and madVR and EVR-sync on the other one. Quote:
Edit: Ok, I think it's surely meant for output. Here's the sample again: http://www20.zippyshare.com/v/0K5ArS12/file.html Btw: MPDN doesn't accept PNGs with 8BPP whie it has no problems with 24BPP. 8BPP: http://www20.zippyshare.com/v/niiU7x21/file.html 24BPP: http://www20.zippyshare.com/v/USMxFxEL/file.html Last edited by aufkrawall; 28th July 2015 at 17:00. |
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#2771 | Link | |
Registered Developer
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,140
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#2774 | Link |
Suptitle, MediaPlayer.NET
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,721
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They better bring it back. I don't see a reason why they need to remove it especially when all their earlier Win10 drivers have it. Maybe they feel they have such a lead in the market place they're giving AMD a chance to catch up?
![]() EDIT: All jokes aside, unless they've implemented the KHR methods, they've just shot themselves in the foot by crippling their own products. Can you check if the corresponding KHR extensions are now part of their new drivers? You can dump all the OpenCL extensions with GPU Caps Viewer. Last edited by Zachs; 29th July 2015 at 00:17. |
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#2775 | Link | |
Suptitle, MediaPlayer.NET
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,721
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#2779 | Link | |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 8,290
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Quote:
couldn't the Khronos api version the reason for the copyback issue with AMD? so not sure if this is a good idea... thsi whole topic is a mystery for me any way. according to this source: https://anteru.net/2012/10/30/1998/ cl_khr_d3d10_sharing is a 1:1 copy from cl_nv_d3d10_sharing. nvidia has both version with should be 100 % the same and doesn't make any sense to me but what ever. |
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Tags |
direct3d, mpdn, nnedi3, opencl, reclock |
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