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Old 20th July 2019, 08:27   #56901  |  Link
ryrynz
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Pull up a couple of sample videos off the net. Play 1080 and 720 upscaled to 4k with ur settings. Show gpu utilization clock speeds and average render time, thanks. I'll compare with my card using ur settings.
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Old 20th July 2019, 12:51   #56902  |  Link
mclingo
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said it before, we totally need a basic benchmark MADVR tool to shutdown at lot of these card vs card arguments, sure everyone's setups are going to be different but it would be handy to know the actual differences between cards rather than relying on hearsay and loaded screenshots.
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Old 20th July 2019, 12:51   #56903  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclingo View Post
said it before, we totally need a basic benchmark MADVR tool to shutdown at lot of these card vs card arguments, sure everyone's setups are going to be different but it would be handy to know the actual differences between cards rather than relying on hearsay and loaded screenshots.
Exactly!

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Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Pull up a couple of sample videos off the net. Play 1080 and 720 upscaled to 4k with ur settings. Show gpu utilization clock speeds and average render time, thanks. I'll compare with my card using ur settings.
Guys, can you make a separate thread for this? Posting the exact video samples (2160p, 1080p, 720p, 540p videos at 23/25/30 fps), so everybody can try it out with his own GPU and post back the results. That would be a nice, killing thread Thanks!
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Old 20th July 2019, 12:54   #56904  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jespermart View Post
You can se my settings in the settings bin from madVR.
Thanks! But can you upload it somewhere else? (approval is pending)
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Old 20th July 2019, 12:59   #56905  |  Link
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Originally Posted by chros View Post
Guys, can you make a separate thread for this?
Don't need much to get a good idea of performance, I was thinking this would be a two post comparison and small talk. Do we want an actual madvr benchmark thread? It's not like anything else is going on here atm.

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Originally Posted by mclingo View Post
said it before, we totally need a basic benchmark MADVR tool
Simple comparisons (NGU and tone mapping) give us a good idea of overall performance we can compare easily enough. There's also no arguments only questions.

Perhaps we should define testing criteria if there's enough desire to see this done thoroughly.

Last edited by ryrynz; 20th July 2019 at 13:04.
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Old 20th July 2019, 14:19   #56906  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Simple comparisons (NGU and tone mapping) give us a good idea of overall performance we can compare easily enough.
Rendering times are actually a terrible comparison, since clocks change all the time and influence that, and most GPUs figure out how fast you need somethind and don't run at the fastest clock they can (and clock is also not always directly proportional to speed, as other things can hold it up, like memory access and the likes)

A benchmark tool that just runs certain madVR algorithms at max speed and gives you a FPS would give you a much more useful and accurate representation of actual GPU performance.
Something like that actually once existed, IIRC it was a special madVR version that just rendered to the screen at max performance, instead of being held up by VSYNC. But alas, a long time ago. Too bad madshi has so little time these days so we don't have toys like this anymore.
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Last edited by nevcairiel; 20th July 2019 at 14:24.
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Old 20th July 2019, 14:27   #56907  |  Link
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I'm aware, we've been over it enough times in this thread, which why I said clock speeds as well in an earlier post.

Yeah a tool would be best for comparison but we might never get that option unfortunately.
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Old 20th July 2019, 16:28   #56908  |  Link
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I have a 3D/HDR panel. I selected 'passthrough HDR to display' for the 'hdr' tab in my monitor catagory. I created a profile group in my monitor catagory using

if (HDR) "BT.2020"
else "BT.709"

for the calibration tab. Then I created a couple profile names BT.2020 and BT.709 and adjusted them accordingly. I'm happy with this.

I want to create another profile group for the 'hdr' tab. I want to keep passthrough for everything as I have it now except for 3D titles. For those I want a seperate profile. I only want it to trigger for 3D titles. Instead of selecting 'passthrough', I want to select 'tone map using pixel shaders'. Maybe I can brighten 3D up a bit. I would try this rule:

if (3D) "TONE MAP"
else "PASSTHROUGH"

in an HDR profile group name with a couple of TONE MAP and PASSTHROUGH profile names adjusted accordingly.

I have not experimented with any of the new tone mapping tests or builds nor reviewed any of the thread discussions. I understand the main interest is for those that prefer madVR tone mapping instead of the displays logic especially those without HDR compatibilty. My question is, would I achieve anything advantageous considering 3D is SDR? In other words, are you guys able to enhance SDR using madVR tone mapping or is it just the opposite and only able to enhance HDR to SDR?

Using madVR v0.92.17.
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Old 20th July 2019, 16:58   #56909  |  Link
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Tone mapping is only for HDR, so it will never be used for 3D. There is nothing to tone map with SDR.
There is no way to brighten up 3D as the lower absolite brightness is a limitation of your display. You could change the gamma used for 3D to get a brighter mid-range but it would destroy contrast.
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Old 20th July 2019, 17:15   #56910  |  Link
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Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Perhaps we should define testing criteria if there's enough desire to see this done thoroughly.
That's my point: otherwise people just say things, like this gpu can do high setiings, and it doesn't mean anything at all.
We don't need bechmark tools:
- just video sample files
- selected screen resolution (4k, 1080p)
- a prepared madvr bin for all the profiles for these samples
- and every one can post their *max* setting with a given GPU

That's it. From that we can clearly see that e.g. a new navi is better than a 1070. And later everyone can decide which GPU is enough for himself.
Because apart from couple of users, there's no list like this.
If noone will do a thread like this, I will, but only couple of weeks later, when I will have time.
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Last edited by chros; 20th July 2019 at 17:18.
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Old 20th July 2019, 17:33   #56911  |  Link
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@madshi are you able to tell if free madVR will always remain on par quality wise with the madvr version/emby which has to be purchased?
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Old 21st July 2019, 02:01   #56912  |  Link
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Something like that actually once existed, IIRC it was a special madVR version that just rendered to the screen at max performance, instead of being held up by VSYNC. But alas, a long time ago. Too bad madshi has so little time these days so we don't have toys like this anymore.
You're right, I found reference to it. I've asked madshi about possibly bringing it back, until then we'll just have to do this somewhat inaccurately and manually and hope it comes back in one form or another.

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From that we can clearly see that e.g. a new navi is better than a 1070.
Yeah I don't see the need to define the performance of the card completely. A lot of the performance we see across various videos will apply across the board and give us a good enough indication on where the card stands.
We'd want to keep this as simple as possible I think, so I think the best target is 4K. videos a@ 1080@24fps, 4k@24fps and 4K at 60fps and HDR tone mapping for 4K@60fps possibly as well.
Will wait a couple of weeks for you to create the thread and we'll go from there.

Last edited by ryrynz; 21st July 2019 at 02:11.
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Old 21st July 2019, 04:38   #56913  |  Link
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Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
I think the best target is 4K. videos a@ 1080@24fps, 4k@24fps and 4K at 60fps and HDR tone mapping for 4K@60fps possibly as well.
Will wait a couple of weeks for you to create the thread and we'll go from there.
Problem is variable performance within the same video. It's hard to pick the exact read spot for the video because it's unstable.

There also isn't enough resolution in the timer to tease out differences between cards that are close.
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Old 21st July 2019, 04:49   #56914  |  Link
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i have an idea for a rough test.

there is nothing worse then over doing the settings and making it to complicated and it doesn't have to be very accurate.
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Old 21st July 2019, 04:50   #56915  |  Link
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Yeah. That's why we'll just use screenshots of graphs from the log data and videos that are long enough to give good averages. I'm thinking about 2 mins. If you want to discuss feel free to msg me.

Actually let's just start a discussion thread first then once we've defined parameters then we'll make a new one for results.
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Old 22nd July 2019, 14:37   #56916  |  Link
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I was trying to think of a dirty way of creating a tool or at least something that was portable, something we could all use, something that forces us all to use the same settings at least, other than just using stock settings. This idea might be possible but its dirty as hell but could be refined if someone knows how to create scripts and compile exe's.

someone could create an extracting exe to do something like the following

Creates a folder c:\MADVR TEST
Runs a script which queries the current location of MADVR install and renames is MADVR.old
extracts a proconfigured MADVR install to c:\MADVR TEST\MADVR
extracts a proconfigured portable MPC-HC program to c:\MADV TEST\MPC
extracts a video file to c:\MADVR TEST
Runs a script which installs MADVR
Runs a scripts which runs the video file so user can take a screen shot
When movies closes a script renames MADVR.old back to MADVR and installs it again.
Script delete c:\MADVR TEST

Would this work though, would you be able to run MPC portable without setting the decoder or configure anything in MADVR?
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Old 23rd July 2019, 00:07   #56917  |  Link
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I wouldn't put too much effort into it right now as there's a chance madshi might re-release his benchmarking version sometime in the near future. The goal imo is to simply determine average performance, not to make a quick n dirty tool providing more accurate and comparable results. We've made do for this long.. Just need to decide on content, settings, tools are reporting method.
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Old 23rd July 2019, 09:20   #56918  |  Link
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👍 sounds good.
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Old 23rd July 2019, 13:23   #56919  |  Link
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I hope madshi does re-release the tool, I would say its more essential now than it has ever been due to the sheer number of cards and driver version available, it would be good to compare results from different driver versions as well as cards !
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Old 23rd July 2019, 14:41   #56920  |  Link
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benchmark by doing as many frames as possible is not reliable test too each shader has an overhead of about 0.30 ms so a high end card would loose more performance to that then a try level card.
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