Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 18th January 2018, 15:41   #48481  |  Link
SamuriHL
Registered User
 
SamuriHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 4,202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni View Post
Just display the OSD, reset the stats and see what it reports. Depending on how sensitive you are to frame drops and the kind of content you play, you can easily miss one frame drop every 3 minutes. I see them all if they happen during a pan, and it's unwatchable for reference viewing. So I use my standalone player for 3D the first time I watch the film (or when showing it to friends) and MadVR when it's just the kids or I've already watched the film and am testing/studying it.
Yea it's showing 1 frame drop every 3 minutes and indeed it does drop 1 every 3 minutes. It's not enough to completely ruin the film for me. I may try custom resolution again cause that's how I solved it last time but that doesn't work for everyone.
__________________
HTPC: Windows 10, I9 9900k, RTX 2070 Founder's Edition, Pioneer Elite VSX-LX303, LG C8 65" OLED
SamuriHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th January 2018, 15:53   #48482  |  Link
nevcairiel
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamburg/Germany
Posts: 9,759
It's so relaxing to just not bother with bitstreaming shit and just let the audio fix itself.
__________________
LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders
nevcairiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th January 2018, 16:02   #48483  |  Link
SamuriHL
Registered User
 
SamuriHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 4,202
Yea yea....some of us are stubborn. LOL
__________________
HTPC: Windows 10, I9 9900k, RTX 2070 Founder's Edition, Pioneer Elite VSX-LX303, LG C8 65" OLED

Last edited by SamuriHL; 18th January 2018 at 16:25.
SamuriHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th January 2018, 16:25   #48484  |  Link
mytbyte
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
It can come from those things:

a. EVR is less VRAM hungry than madVR, which could explain why madVR is struggling with 8K video on a card with only 2 GB of VRAM.

b. the GT1030 doesn't have the power to downscale 8K to 1080 using madVR high quality algorithms.

c. both

I don't see the point of 8K on a 1080 output tbh, but anyway:

1. Close all other programs and folder windows when playing video, each one takes up VRAM which the GT1030 doesn't have plenty of.

2. Choose D3D11 as hardware decoder in LAV, Device set to Automatic (native). This gives slightly better performance.

3. Check your VRAM and GPU loads with GPU-Z or another tool when playing back a 8K clip with madVR:

a. If the GPU load is approaching 90% or more then it's too high. Try selecting DXVA2 downscaling in madVR (make a profile just for 8K), though this defeats the purpose of using madVR, so you'd get better results with a 4K clip and a higher quality downscaler.

b. If the VRAM usage is approaching 1.8-1.9 GB then it may already be too high. You can try to lower queues in madVR to those values (CPU/GPU/Present): 4/4/3.
If that still maxes out VRAM then you're out of luck. If that works, then you can try 4 for the Present queue to be safer, and if that still doesn't max out the VRAM you can then try upping the GPU queue until you hit the VRAM limit again (keep the CPU queue the same as GPU, NVIDIA's hardware decoder is so fast it won't cause problems).
, the point was just to try it out for the heck of it...and hopefully be able to preview/play 8K content if it's not available in any other form...so, could live with EVR, of course, except for HDR - no conversion with EVR...

I've tried everything you propose...even with EVR, D3D11 doesn't cut it, only DXVA2 Native, Video decode is @98%, VRAM is @1,8 GB, so you are probably right - no more of anything left for MadVR to work with...nothing I do to MadVR helps one bit...

I have also noticed (Ctrl-J) that even with EVR it doesn't actually run at full frame rate, it varies between 51 and 55 fps when it should do 60...I'm probaly hitting the VRAM bandwidth limit (64 bit), also GPU-Z PerfCap reports it's capping because of VRel

P.S. with all windows closed it's using 1,7GB VRAM, and when I don't scale the video it runs @58 fps...

Last edited by mytbyte; 18th January 2018 at 17:03.
mytbyte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th January 2018, 19:45   #48485  |  Link
-Hitman-
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I'm slightly confused now which version does which exactly. Could you try summing up which madVR version does what? And which is what you should get and which is not? From what I see right now, it seems there 3 different behaviours now?
Sorry, for clarity..

Madvr up to version 0.91.11 all work fine and correctly identify my two separate monitor feeds, a Dell and a Denon AVR.

Anything after this version 0.91.11 (eg.V0.92.1 and upwards) is when things start to go wrong and only displays the 1 Dell monitor device with 1 identification card showing the Denon ID and it's edid.

The issue also looks to get worse further up the revisions as testing version 0.92.1 - one Dell display shows with one identification card - Denon/edid

Testing the latest version - again one Dell display but with 2 identification cards inside at first, both with Denon/edid's, then every time the Denon output is used another identification card appears and stack up (all with Denon/edid's) as first reported and shown in the image I uploaded (eg 10x Denon used, 10x identifications show).


Previously mentioned if I completely remove the Denon and the Dell ID/edid is then detected, this ID/edid then becomes predominant and the dell/edid populates the identifications as they appear instead of the denon ID/edid.

Whatever ID/edid madvr detects first, this is always used and will not detect the 2 separate displays with 2 separate display ID/edids.

Thanks.
-Hitman- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th January 2018, 20:17   #48486  |  Link
el Filou
Registered User
 
el Filou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 494
Quote:
Originally Posted by mytbyte View Post
P.S. with all windows closed it's using 1,7GB VRAM, and when I don't scale the video it runs @58 fps...
That's also the result I get on my 1050 Ti, 58-61 fps.
Anyway I still think 8K consumer content is a waste of bandwidth and/or processing power, and I fail to imagine a case where 8K would be the only quality some material would be available in.
Choose the 4K version, avoid needless chroma upscale-then-downscale-again thanks to madVR, and use that GPU power for a good luma downscaler.
__________________
HTPC: Windows 10 1809, MediaPortal 1, LAV Filters, ReClock, madVR. DVB-C TV, Panasonic GT60, 6.0 speakers Denon 2310, Core 2 Duo E7400, GeForce 1050 Ti
el Filou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th January 2018, 20:41   #48487  |  Link
Manni
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 711
@Madshi
Any chance to get the active 3D LUT displayed on the OSD?
__________________
Win10 Pro x64 b1809 MCE
i7 3770K@4.0Ghz 16Gb@2.18Ghz EVGA GTX 1080 Ti SC2 11Gb@2GHz 398.11 RGB Full 8bits
MPC-BE/LAV/MadVR/jRiver/MyMovies V5.25PR2
Denon X8500H>HD Fury Maestro>JVC RS2000
Manni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th January 2018, 21:17   #48488  |  Link
mytbyte
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
That's also the result I get on my 1050 Ti, 58-61 fps.
Errr...that fps is EVR or MadVR? How do you get 61 fps from 60 fps video
mytbyte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th January 2018, 21:23   #48489  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,733
this sometimes happens when playback is catching.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th January 2018, 21:38   #48490  |  Link
mytbyte
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
this sometimes happens when playback is catching.
Ah, yes, I notices I sometimes do get over 200 fps but very briefly on restart (catching as you put it)...

Last edited by mytbyte; 18th January 2018 at 21:40.
mytbyte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th January 2018, 21:43   #48491  |  Link
Manni
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 711
@Madshi
Two things:

1) external command seems a bit flimsy, even on enable. I've created a group profile testing HDR, and selecting a custom profile for calibration based on content (SDR=select Rec-709 calibration on the JVC, HDR=select SDR-BT2020 on the JVC). Although the correct profile is selected based on content, the external command on enable seems hit and miss. It should execute every time I change content type, but it doesn't. I haven't identified a pattern, but I think it was working all the time earlier because it was always the same profile that was selected. I tried reverting to the official build but I get the same results as the test build.

EDIT: in case it helps, if I switch the user mode to call in the custom enable field, the mode changes right away when I click apply (if the profile is active, of coursE), in real-time. So it's not the batch file. It seems to be that in some cases but not always the command is either not sent on profile enable or missed. There is no other app using IP on the JVC and I always make sure that the PJ is stable before starting playback (as no command is accepted during HDMI sync).

2) Is it just me or has vertical shift according to A/R stopped working in the latest build? I haven't changed anything in my settings, but the picture isn't shifting anymore according to A/R.
__________________
Win10 Pro x64 b1809 MCE
i7 3770K@4.0Ghz 16Gb@2.18Ghz EVGA GTX 1080 Ti SC2 11Gb@2GHz 398.11 RGB Full 8bits
MPC-BE/LAV/MadVR/jRiver/MyMovies V5.25PR2
Denon X8500H>HD Fury Maestro>JVC RS2000

Last edited by Manni; 18th January 2018 at 22:08.
Manni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th January 2018, 22:09   #48492  |  Link
xyndv
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Is that with linear light enabled or disabled for the new AdaptiveSharpen? Does it make a big difference?
It's enabled, disabled is sharper but also shrinks some things and removes details.
xyndv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th January 2018, 22:33   #48493  |  Link
ryrynz
Registered User
 
ryrynz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,172
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
scale chroma separately, if it saves performance
Interesting setting, I never paid it any attention until now.

I would make sure to have a profile set up for using this specifically for 4K content only, it does however make the picture less sharp when it's enabled and it's obviously now not using my set chroma scaler (NGU AA) according to the OSD and changing the scaler makes no difference to the picture so it's using bicubic 150? which is my luma downscaler for 4K.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian
Scaling chroma separately is much faster when downscaling from large resolutions. It is probably lower visual quality but it is not obviously mathematically worse and it can be very important for watching 4K content on lower resolution displays with weaker GPUs.
This doesn't seem entirely correct, it's definitely faster but given the changes it's not just scaling separately, Madshi how is chroma being handled here exactly?

Thing is on my 960 is drops render time from about 30ms on The World in HDR to about 8ms.. but there are obvious differences in the picture which you can see from the screenshot below.

However, setting this also allows me to preserve the hue from HDR in high quality which IMO looks slightly better than it being in low quality and not scaling chroma separately with NGU AA.
That with HALF the rendering time is quite nice, I can deal with this on my 960 at only 15ms. I guess everyone with lower powered cards should consider using this combination of settings for HDR.

The_World_in_HDR_in_4K_HDR10.mkv Let madVR decide scale normal


The_World_in_HDR_in_4K_HDR10.mkv Let madVR decide scale separately


The_World_in_HDR_in_4K_HDR10.mkv preserve hue HQ and scale chroma separately


Okay, so this file requires chroma upscaling which isn't the norm for 4K content when downscaling to 1080.

Last edited by ryrynz; 19th January 2018 at 02:20.
ryrynz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th January 2018, 22:36   #48494  |  Link
ryrynz
Registered User
 
ryrynz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,172
Quote:
Originally Posted by xyndv View Post
It's enabled, disabled is sharper but also shrinks some things and removes details.
Any screenshots showing it removing detail? I didn't like how LL looked at all..
ryrynz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th January 2018, 23:46   #48495  |  Link
Asmodian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 3,604
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
I would make sure to have a profile set up for using this specifically for 4K content only, it does however make the picture less sharp when it's enabled and it's obviously now not using my set chroma scaler (NGU AA) according to the OSD and changing the scaler makes no difference to the picture so it's using bicubic 150? which is my luma downscaler for 4K.
You don't need to set a profile for 4K only. It only takes effect if you are downscaling the luma by a reasonable amount.

Are you watching 4K content on a 1080p screen? If so the chroma does not need scaling, on a UHD bluray the chroma is 1920x1080.
__________________
madVR options explained
Asmodian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th January 2018, 23:54   #48496  |  Link
ryrynz
Registered User
 
ryrynz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,172
Yes 4K->1080, but the OSD shows chroma upscaling, why?
ryrynz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th January 2018, 00:12   #48497  |  Link
jasonwc18
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 16
Question about HDR > SDR tonemapping settings with a JVC RS600 projector

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni View Post
@madshi

I just wanted to say "well done!", the result is significantly better than what I've been able to get with any custom curves, especially regarding saturation in shadow detail and highlights.
Hi Manni,

I've read a lot of your informative posts on Doom9 and the AVS Forum (RS 500/ 600 thread), including your post today regarding the state of HDR on the JVC projectors. I was wondering if you could share the settings you are using for tone mapping HDR > SDR in madvr. Specifically, the peak display nits setting appears to be a matter of guesswork. madshi previously indicated that a minimum setting of 265 nits should be used regardless of the display's actual peak brightness.

You mentioned that you had experience calibrating SDR BT.2020 in Calman. I recently upgraded from a JVC RS49 to an RS600. I calibrated SDR/Rec 709/Gamma 2.4 manually with an i1 Display Pro and Calman, and then perfected the results in Calman with a madvr 3DLUT. I would like to do the same for SDR BT.2020 but the process seems more complicated. My understanding is that it is necessary to set the colorspace to Rec.2020, but because the JVC projectors are limited to the DCI-P3 colorspace with the filter engaged, I should use DCI-P3 saturation sweeps. Is this correct? Presumably, I would do the same for the 3D LUT generation. I assume I will need to open up the iris more and enable the filter.

Regarding my setup, I calibrated SDR/Rec.709 to 13 Footlamberts (Low, -10 Iris) with my 120" white unity gain screen but could go brighter for tonemapped HDR > SDR content. I have a fully light controlled room with no ambient light. The walls and ceilings are coated with black velvet 10' in all directions, with a black rug on the floor, and I have dark grey ceilings and dark navy blue walls extending farther back. I plan to cover the entire room was velvet over the next few weeks. I also use black velvet throws to minimize reflections off my leather couch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Any opions about this anyone? Would it be a good idea to offer an "use RCA only if its comes for free" option?
Hi madshi,

First, I would like to say that I am extremely impressed with madvr. The NGU Sharp upscaling provides a very sharp image without visible artifacting, and I'm viewing content on a 120" screen from 10-11' away. In addition, the 3D LUT calibration yielded average deltaE errors for greyscale tracking and color under 0.5 with maximum errors of only 1.5. Really amazing results for almost no work.

As for your question, I think this would be a useful option. I'm using NGU Sharp (High) on a GTX 1070 for 1080p content which yields RCA for free. However, I discovered that this option is tremendously demanding when used on 4K content. It increased render times from approximately 30 ms to 80ms(!) when used in conjunction with NGU AA (Medium) for Chroma, as well as Light/High debanding, and the deringing filter. Removing the debanding filter (probably not necessary for 10 bit high-bitrate 4k BD content) and the deringing filter lowered my rendering times to 15 ms. I ended up creating profiles for each resolution as you suggested but a checkbox option would be easier. Moreover, it wasn't obvious to me that RCA was so demanding. Given my experience, it seems to be one of the most demanding options available when used at 4K.

Last edited by jasonwc18; 19th January 2018 at 00:25.
jasonwc18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th January 2018, 00:20   #48498  |  Link
Manni
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 711
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonwc18 View Post
Hi Manni,

I've read a lot of your informative posts on Doom9 and the AVS Forum (RS 500/ 600 thread)
Hi, unfortunately this is mostly off topic here, I'll post recommended MadVR settings in the JVC AUtocal thread for the 2015 models, so make sure you subscribe to the thread. It will take a while though because I'm busy with work and there are a couple of things that are not working yet.

I'm still experimenting and apart from agreeing with Mashi re the peakY value (I used 200nits initially for a 120nits actual peakY, but I find that up to 400nits looks very good) I need more time to find the best compromise.

See you in the JVC thread
__________________
Win10 Pro x64 b1809 MCE
i7 3770K@4.0Ghz 16Gb@2.18Ghz EVGA GTX 1080 Ti SC2 11Gb@2GHz 398.11 RGB Full 8bits
MPC-BE/LAV/MadVR/jRiver/MyMovies V5.25PR2
Denon X8500H>HD Fury Maestro>JVC RS2000
Manni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th January 2018, 01:13   #48499  |  Link
Clammerz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
The_World_in_HDR_in_4K_HDR10.mkv Let madVR decide scale normal
Your image links aren't working.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Yes 4K->1080, but the OSD shows chroma upscaling, why?
You've probably already done this, but have you checked and confirmed resetting to default settings without profiles to make sure the option(s) work as intended in the basic scenario? If that is the case, it'll make it easier for us to confirm if we have the same behaviour.
Clammerz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th January 2018, 01:22   #48500  |  Link
ryrynz
Registered User
 
ryrynz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clammerz View Post
Your image links aren't working.
Fixed, copy paste fail.

I'll try a fresh profile, what the heck, my OSD isn't displaying with screenshots either so maybe that might fix that too. Profile garbage =/

Nope, didn't fix either, seems The World in HDR needs chroma upscaling. Haven't seen this with any other 4K stuff.

Last edited by ryrynz; 19th January 2018 at 01:31.
ryrynz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:52.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.