madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[VBB]

Absolutely. I know some don't think it makes a difference, but I found that with the OLEDs a combo of YCbCr 4:2:2, 10-bit, for both SDR and HDR together with normal HDMI mode on the TV has the biggest impact on banding. When I used RGB full, I had no choice but to use madVR's de-banding. Now, I don't use it anymore at all, with any content. Banding is virtually non-existent. But again, this only applies to OLEDs, and perhaps only to LG's.

[Asmodian]

I disagree, I do not have less banding when using 10 bit. My banding seems lowest using YCbCr 8 bit, also tested using HDMI mode on LG C9.

Also, madVR's debanding has no effect on banding due to the bitdepth/display. madVR's debanding removes banding from the source, it simply cannot have an effect once the video makes it to the display.

[VBB]

Huh? What does that have to do with the display? It has an effect on what you set in the video drivers. We know these panels run natively in 4:2:2 10-bit, unless you switch to PC mode, which is borked in several ways. I think we can agree on that. So, it makes sense that, in normal HDMI mode, you get the least banding when running exactly what the panel expects.

[Asmodian]

madVR's debanding has an effect on what you set in the video drivers? How?

Edit: madVR's debanding happens on the source before it is sent to the drivers. If you have a smooth gradient test pattern in a high bitdepth it does not need or benefit from debanding.

[WuNgUn]

I'm definitely not getting HDR metadata to the display on these hotfix drivers.
Gonna run DDU in safe mode and try a clean driver install.

Sent from my SM-G988W using Tapatalk

[VBB]

So, you're saying, if I get more banding from a driver setting of RGB Full, for example, than I do from YCbCr 4:2:2, then madVR's de-banding does not influence said banding caused by the driver settings? That makes no sense. If I can see the added banding before I even use madVR as a video renderer, why wouldn't the de-band function make that less visible?

[VBB]

Anyway, I'm just telling you what I see with my own eyes. This is after owning and messing with this C7 for three years. Same video card, same rig, all this time. And you know this isn't about agreeing or disagreeing with each other. Everyone should do their own tests. If there's one thing I think we can both actually agree on, it's that you hate sub-sampling and I hate banding

[huhn]

sorry but you should stick to science.

if you take a proper banding test with absolutely zero banding in the source debanding doesn't do anything to it there is nothing to deband.
and this is the first step to check if a TV adds banding or not because other variables are kept to a minimum.

If I can see the added banding before I even use madVR as a video renderer, why wouldn't the de-band function make that less visible?

did the other program you check this with properly dither or is it creating banding on it own?
does your conclusion take into account if the GPU driver adds banding?

[VBB]

We've been over this so many times. My way of testing is clearly documented in the OLED thread, and probably also in this one. If it's not scientific, then I don't know what to say. Others have tested this as well and came to the same conclusion. Asmodian has tested this on his C9, and found that his TV behaves slightly differently, and that he prefers a different setting. No argument from me. I only have the C7, and I report what I see and try to help people that have issues with banding.

[huhn]

not here to say what you see is wrong but debanding works different.
is done at the source it doesn't know about the output setting so doesn't behavior any different based on rendering bit deep or GPU send bit deep.

that's just a fact and this should make sense to you.

[chros]

Originally Posted by VBB

Anyway, I'm just telling you what I see with my own eyes. This is after owning and messing with this C7 for three years. Same video card, same rig, all this time. And you know this isn't about agreeing or disagreeing with each other. Everyone should do their own tests.

+1, I agree

[VBB]

Thanks chros I had this long reply to huhn typed up, but then I'm thinking, unless we're all in front of the same display at the same time, it doesn't make too much sense to argue here. I understand the science, and I also know what I'm seeing, and right now I have it dialed in to where it doesn't get any better, for what I'm looking to get out of this particular TV.

[QBhd]

No one was saying that your settings were wrong, people may disagree with them but that is choice and we all make our own choices. What they are trying to say is that part of your logic chain is wrong which led you to your choices. De-Banding has ZERO effect on the topic we are discussing, which is TV input setting and format/bit-depth of the GPU driver. There are two main types of banding, banding caused by the source and banding caused by the PC-TV setup. De-banding works on the source side. The topic being discussed is the PC-TV setup side.

QB

[cesar73]

Hello,

This is certainly a HDR newbie question: who should use Madvr HDR tone mapping feature ?

I mean, I have an old OLED 4K HDR TV (LG 55C6) and no video projector. I watch a few 4K HDR HEVC mkv video files, but mostly 1080p non HDR x264 files. I am using HDR passthrough in Madvr settings until now.

1/ Is HDR tone mapping made only for video projector to simulate HDR ?
2/ For 4K HDR TV, can it render better dynamic color for HDR video files better than HDR passthrough settings ?
3/ or can it simulate HDR on HDR TV for non HDR 1080p video files ?

[tp4tissue]

Originally Posted by cesar73

Hello,

This is certainly a HDR newbie question: who should use Madvr HDR tone mapping feature ?

I mean, I have an old OLED 4K HDR TV (LG 55C6) and no video projector. I watch a few 4K HDR HEVC mkv video files, but mostly 1080p non HDR x264 files. I am using HDR passthrough in Madvr settings until now.

1/ Is HDR tone mapping made only for video projector to simulate HDR ?
2/ For 4K HDR TV, can it render better dynamic color for HDR video files better than HDR passthrough settings ?
3/ or can it simulate HDR on HDR TV for non HDR 1080p video files ?

The OLED does it's own tone-mapping in HDR mode.

Using MADVR Tonemapping, it does the tonemapping into the SDR mode of the TV. <you're still getting HDR output> just mapped to a different expected input.

It's a difference in the FLAVOR of the tonemapping, but both image are tonemapped to the "EXPECTED" capability of the TV.

YOU DECIDE, which look you like better.

<Most people in the thread prefers Madvr at this point, because of all the tweaks and features that we can now control>

However, the OLED's tonemapping is end to end certified, Some people prefer that. For example, while LG's oleds are not reference monitors used to master on, they are used as part of the output check for the dolby vision workflow.

[Cowboydude99]

Hi can someone help me figure out what the difference is from using madvr tone mapping vs pass through?

I’m using a PJ. 99.% of the content I watch is 4K HDR.

Would using tone mapping vs the projector’s tone mapping be better?

I set my gpu to 4:2:2 12b.

I have to play video at 60hz because the projector has too much judder when in 23hz and 24hz.

[tp4tissue]

Originally Posted by Cowboydude99

Hi can someone help me figure out what the difference is from using madvr tone mapping vs pass through?

I’m using a PJ. 99.% of the content I watch is 4K HDR.

Would using tone mapping vs the projector’s tone mapping be better?

I set my gpu to 4:2:2 12b.

I have to play video at 60hz because the projector has too much judder when in 23hz and 24hz.

From a previous post from a JVC owner, stick to 8bit 444 output. There seems to be some issue with the projector being flippant with the gamma input lvls.

Use madvr's tonemapping, it's better than JVC's by far.

The projector is srgb gamut, so you don't have to worry about the color. Although I'd still recommend getting a colorimeter to get the gamma/ whitepoint/ greybalance tweaked.

[Cowboydude99]

I must have a misunderstanding of HDR. I thought you needed at least 10b color for hdr.

Is that not the case?

[tp4tissue]

Originally Posted by Cowboydude99

I must have a misunderstanding of HDR. I thought you needed at least 10b color for hdr.

Is that not the case?

No, you don't need 10bit.

10 bit is data, 100% blue is still 100% blue whether it's 10 bit or 8 bit. The data is mapped to the physical capabilities of the projector.

Madvr takes 10bit, does it's thing, outputs 8-bit. You still get the smooth gradients, that's already in the data.

10bit in data, gives you better representation of gradients. However it does not work out that way in practice in the physical output devices.

It's kind of like Pro-Audio upsell of 192khz, when really all you need is 44.1khz.

[Klaus1189]

Claude Shannon and Harry Nyquist