madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[tony359]

I'm a newbie on HDR but I think so. The setting you're looking for is tone map HDR using pixel shaders.

Basically anything over the max capability of your display will get clipped unless it's tone mapped. When you tone map, you're telling the player what the peak luminance of your display is. At that point the player will change the gamma curve to make sure that clipping does not happen - but not by just lowering the whole picture's brightness.

So yes, that would be the setting. It will only work if you are playing content which is over that peak luminance number, if your peak luminance is 1500nits (the max brightness of your display), madVR won't touch the picture unless there is something in it which goes over 1500 nits.

But if you play some content which does not contain anything above that number, madVR won't touch it.

I hope this makes sense.

[bob88]

Originally Posted by tony359

I'm a newbie on HDR but I think so. The setting you're looking for is tone map HDR using pixel shaders.

Basically anything over the max capability of your display will get clipped unless it's tone mapped. When you tone map, you're telling the player what the peak luminance of your display is. At that point the player will change the gamma curve to make sure that clipping does not happen - but not by just lowering the whole picture's brightness.

So yes, that would be the setting. It will only work if you are playing content which is over that peak luminance number, if your peak luminance is 1500nits (the max brightness of your display), madVR won't touch the picture unless there is something in it which goes over 1500 nits.

But if you play some content which does not contain anything above that number, madVR won't touch it.

I hope this makes sense.

It does make sense bro! Thanks!
One question thought. The site of my projector says peak nits is 2200, last spec in the list:
https://www.samsung.com/us/televisio...7tfaxza/#specs
But earlier somebody posted something about this value possibly being incorrect. Do you guys think I should set madVR to 2200 nits? Would that be appropriate?
Also tone mapping curve that is available for selection in madVR is BT2390. But my projector supposedly works with BT2020. Its still fine if I use BT2390 right?

[.m4jX]

Originally Posted by bob88

Do you guys think I should set madVR to 2200 nits? Would that be appropriate?

If only.

Couldn't find peak nits for the LSP7T, but the review for the LSP9T on avforums says:

the projector tracks the PQ curve until rolls off at its peak brightness of around 175 nits.

The LSP9T is brighter than the LSP7T, so try something around 100-150 nits.

Check out the madvr mapping for projector thread on avsforum for some examples of setttings for projector users.

[tony359]

if it's a projector, the peak brightness depends on the size of the screen, no?

2200 is LUMEN. That is what comes out from the lens. Depending on how large is your screen you'll get more or less NITS.

PS: 2200 lumen is probably in Samsung's marketing dept's mind. For an accurate reproduction (i.e. not using the VIVID or DYNAMIC preset) the actual output is likely to be much lower than that.

[bob88]

Thank you. I guess I will just set it at 150 nits then.
I found this interesting thing:
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/mad...#post-57368036
Not sure if I should make the effort to try and understand it considering its in German... I guess its not going to give me anything much different than 150...
I could potentially measure the exact size of the screen and divide the 2200 lumens on that. Not sure what the exact equation would have to be though to get it in nits...

[el Filou]

Originally Posted by bob88

PS: Sorry I guess I didnt see it. There is also "target peak nits" under "tone map HDR using pixel shaders". However nothing I change there seems to have any effect on the picture... Actually none of the HDR options in madVR seem to have any effect. Its all the same regardless of what I change.

Yes that's the one I was talking about, it's named differently because I'm using a later version.
If you'll see changes or not depends on many things, most notably the value entered for peak nits, and also the type of movie.
I think you should still see obvious changes with different peak nits values.

Originally Posted by bob88

I found this interesting thing:
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/mad...#post-57368036
Not sure if I should make the effort to try and understand it considering its in German...

That optimizer tool was for some very specific test versions of madVR where it needed to first analyse a whole movie to produce a measurement file which it would then use to make better tonemapping decisions during playback. That tool could optimise/modify those files. It shouldn't be used anymore.

[tony359]

bob88

Again, I would not take that "2200" number as accurate. Projector manufacturers are notoriously inaccurate when it comes to declaring output. 2200lumen is likely happening in the brightest and most inaccurate mode you've got!
If you send me your screen size and you find online a review that gives you the actual lumen output from your projector in a reasonable preset, I can do the math for you!

---

I have a general question on tone mapping.

I think I understand why it happens: it's there to deal with the "short blanket" of some modern TVs. That is, my C7 OLED can do 650 nits and if the movie is graded to reach, say, 1000, tone mapping will change the gamma curve to make sure that values between 650 and 1000 don't get clipped but won't just darken the whole picture. A big needed compromise.

Now, my LG has what they call an "dynamic tone mapping" or something similar which claims to do tone mapping dynamically. You just set "dynamic contrast" to "low" and the TV will take care of that. The picture will "pop" more but I've noticed that even darker scenes - with no bright spots whatsoever - are brighten up. What is the point with that? Maybe LG's implementation gets the maximum Peak Luminance from the media being played - that is, the maximum brightness achieved during the whole movie - and applies a tone mapping to the whole content, and not only to those frames where the peak luminance exceeds the screen capabilities?

Also, I'd imagine that all sort of errors could happen when relying on those algorithms. If content is graded in a 4000 nits container, but only going to a maximum of - say - 600nits, will the TV look at the 4000 number or at the actual peak luminance value?

How does BT2390 works on this regard? I see there is an option to have madVR analyse each frame for peak luminance, what is the behaviour when that option is on or off?

Thanks!

[TeamRajput]

Its been long since any new version of MadVR came out once madshi started on with envy project. The developer could restart the development once again after making madVR a paid software. With Dolby Vision and HDR 10+ around , one really misses out madVR's continued development . Hope madshi takes up the project’s development once again or at least make it open source so that others can take over .

[ashlar42]

Originally Posted by TeamRajput

at least make it open source so that others can take over .

With a company betting everything on madVR, I doubt that this is ever gonna happen.

[jkauff]

Originally Posted by TeamRajput

Its been long since any new version of MadVR came out once madshi started on with envy project. The developer could restart the development once again after making madVR a paid software. With Dolby Vision and HDR 10+ around , one really misses out madVR's continued development . Hope madshi takes up the project’s development once again or at least make it open source so that others can take over .

So you're asking for a software-only version of Envy (that your hardware is probably not powerful enough to run). Based on Envy pricing, that would work out to about $3,000 a copy.

Be glad we've got madVR for free.

[SirMaster]

Originally Posted by TeamRajput

Its been long since any new version of MadVR came out once madshi started on with envy project. The developer could restart the development once again after making madVR a paid software. With Dolby Vision and HDR 10+ around , one really misses out madVR's continued development . Hope madshi takes up the project’s development once again or at least make it open source so that others can take over .

He released the most recent beta build 9 days ago and 2 builds 2 days before that as well.

He alternates back and forth between madVR and Envy development. He uses madVR as a testing ground for Envy dev.

[Siso]

Does anyone know what black output offset to put in st 2084 in the 3dlut for hdr to sdr? 50% 100%?

[Noobius]

EDIT: seems I'm both smarter and stupider I thought.

TrueHD or DTS-HD MA seems to not work at 23fps or 24fps at all regardless of MadVR so the NVIDIA drivers must be broken?

Any advice?

----------------------------------------------

So went from GTX 970 => RTX 3070

Now if I use MadVR then as soon as I try to enter full screen mode with the "switch to matching display mode" e.g. 23hz TrueHD / DTS-HD MA audio breaks and is broken until I restart the PC.

If I disable MadVR then TrueHD and DTS-HD MA works fine.

There used to be no issues and my receiver correctly displayed TrueHD or DTS-HD MA signal passthrough.

Any advice?

And btw - I've been using MadVR for years and it's great so that's why I'm now asking how to resolve this issue, it's not a complaint. Thanks for the great filters.

[TeamRajput]

Originally Posted by jkauff

So you're asking for a software-only version of Envy (that your hardware is probably not powerful enough to run). Based on Envy pricing, that would work out to about $3,000 a copy.

Be glad we've got madVR for free.

Although your price estimate speaks volume of your IQ levels wherein you took the liberty of extrapolating a hardware based solution pricing with software PC based solution , yet i must point out two things 1) I am not "freebies-loader" like you and happily pay for all softwares including media center players and sound enhancers(2)For price estimation i would prefer it coming straight from the horse's mouth rather than a troll .

[TeamRajput]

Originally Posted by SirMaster

He released the most recent beta build 9 days ago and 2 builds 2 days before that as well.

He alternates back and forth between madVR and Envy development. He uses madVR as a testing ground for Envy dev.

Thanks for the info . I hope you r referring to avsforum postings. I''l try them.

[TeamRajput]

Originally Posted by ashlar42

With a company betting everything on madVR, I doubt that this is ever gonna happen.

Hmm you r right in that inference

[Siso]

Do you remember after which beta, they started to expire? After 113 or later?

[el Filou]

Started with v114, but madshi has also re-released older test builds (for comparisons) with the expiration (and the newer Envy-friendlier license) added, I know he did that at least with v112b for example so there exist expiring and not expiring versions of that build. Maybe he did it with other builds.

[Siso]

Originally Posted by el Filou

Started with v114, but madshi has also re-released older test builds (for comparisons) with the expiration (and the newer Envy-friendlier license) added, I know he did that at least with v112b for example so there exist expiring and not expiring versions of that build. Maybe he did it with other builds.

Thank you for the info.

[JNW]

I reported a bug with madVR on Windows 11 where automatic display mode switching would invoke tablet mode. Turns out it was a Windows 11 bug and has been fixed in Windows 11 Insider Preview Build 22621.450 and 22622.450:

We fixed an issue that causes Windows to display tablet mode features for some devices that do not have touchscreens.

I also confirmed this as it would also happen with JRiver and nircmd with MPV.