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14th December 2015, 16:28 | #34621 | Link |
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So, there is no way to prevent the crashes without disabling Crossfire globally? I'm not trying to accelerate madVR's computation with crossfire, mind you, but rather, I am trying to find out why the crashes happen even though crossfire is not enabled for MPC-HC/madVR and is only enabled for applications that specifically have a profile.
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14th December 2015, 16:30 | #34622 | Link | |
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Note that this only seems to happen when fps is almost the same as the display rate. It took me some time to remember that the interlaced NTSC DVDs (actual video, not film) will have there frames doubled by DXVA deinterlacing, therefore running 59 fps at 60 Hz. This seems to be hard for FRC. (No way around starting to use ReClock, it seems?) madVR never did report such repeated frames, at least not for me. When viewing a 24 fps movie at 60 Hz with FRC on I never got even one repeated frame reported in any version. Or do you want to say, this was by accident, because each and every frame was unique or blended, so that there never was any actual repeated frame? |
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14th December 2015, 16:59 | #34624 | Link | |||
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Another option would be to use different presets in the TV, but only some TVs support that, and the lack of auto switching could be quickly become annoying. Edit: My idea above would only work for video playback, obviously, it would not do anything for desktop or player GUI. If you need a solution for that, too, maybe one option would be to misuse the GPU gamma ramps to make everything darker? That should work for desktop and media player GUI. However, GPU gamma ramps don't use dithering, I think, so it would not be a good solution for image quality. Quote:
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What fill state do the queues have when that stuttering occurs? How many frames are you presenting in advance? Or did you disable the "present several frames in advance" option? FWIW, it's recommended to use that option because it increases presentation reliability. Last edited by madshi; 14th December 2015 at 17:01. |
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14th December 2015, 17:05 | #34625 | Link | |
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switching the HDMI output on a TV doesn't sound too terrible. and DP 1.3 to HDMI 2.0 should work with an passive adapter. you are simply way ahead of time with that feature. but i don't think leaving the TV at a high brightness for SDR content is a good idea. none OLED screens will lose a lot of CR this way. and local dimming has a enough of problems already without this high brightness. |
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14th December 2015, 17:39 | #34626 | Link |
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So does this mean even when using madVR for watching an UHD Blu-ray on my current plasma TV (VT60) that it will look bad/not right?
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14th December 2015, 18:39 | #34627 | Link | |
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Note however that not all UHD Blu-rays will use HDR, in fact most will not. There may even be two releases of movies, one in HDR and one SDR.
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14th December 2015, 19:11 | #34628 | Link |
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Thanks for new version Madshi, I have a quick question though. How do we know what to set the display peak luminance to? I have an older 1080p 32" EX400 Sony LCD and a 1080p 55" VT60 Panasonic Plasma. Both by default are set to 600 nits. Not sure how or where to find the correct setting. I know one thing is for certain, the plasma is a much higher end display which may affect this setting?
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14th December 2015, 19:15 | #34629 | Link | |
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Note that documented peak luminance will always refer to 100% backlight setting, which you may not find good for general watching purposes, like myself.
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14th December 2015, 19:17 | #34630 | Link | |
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Questions: How can you really know in what range the studio mastered their movie? Seen where? Judging by what I see with madTestPattern, how did you know what region is more important to compress and what to clip? With 1200nit mastered content (presumably), the whole range is compressed. With 4000nit, again practically the whole range is compressed. Doesn't that mean that the movie will be too dark overall just so that we will be able to see the super bright parts?
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14th December 2015, 19:17 | #34631 | Link | |
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Here's the log with the debug OSD: https://yadi.sk/d/QDP2CRqHmDvVi Maybe you can tell why it doesn't go into FSE? I've downloaded several test videos and tried the new HDR feature. I am currently using a professional NEC P241W monitor which is true 10 bit through DisplayPort cable and is capable of >Adobe RGB coverage and has a preset for DCI color space. I've set the maximum brightness which is 350 cd/m2 for this display and set the white point to 6500K. I used 400 cd/m2 in madVR settings. Well, it works. But I have horrible amount of dropped frames even though rendering is well under 10 ms. It looks like I cannot truly appreciate the difference now since I'm not getting 10 bit without FSE. Also, you said that we may choose the maximum luminance between 0-10000 cd/m2, but the lowest I can choose now is 400 cd/m2. Is it intentional? Can we choose luminance in increments other than 100-200? Last edited by TheElix; 14th December 2015 at 19:31. |
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14th December 2015, 19:26 | #34632 | Link |
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I think the new "display peak luminance" feature only works if your display has a static and unchangable minimum light level (MLL) of the display.
Meaning, it only truly works if you have a FALD (full-array local dimming) display. If your display can do 4,000nits but keeps the contrast ratio at 1000:1 it simply does not differ from any other SDR TV. OR, I might be very wrong! ..and madVR actually compress the HDR content to 1000:1 and you should turn your SDR display brightness to max (400nit) to utilize the new feature...? I need some HDR demo clips, anyone?
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14th December 2015, 19:31 | #34633 | Link |
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What about Dolby Vision support in madVR? Is it something technically impossible to implement?
Thanks
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14th December 2015, 19:38 | #34634 | Link | ||||||||
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FWIW, there's no exact science for how these HDR -> SDR conversions work. So the numbers in the settings dialog are rough estimates. Things also depend on the ambient light level in the room and how your display is calibrated. E.g. with a front projection setup, although the luminance is much lower than e.g. 600 nits, you might still get the best image quality by setting your display to 600 or 900 nits. So my recommendation is to simply play some HDR content and let you eyes decide which nits setting in madVR looks best in your setup. Quote:
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I neither have any such content nor any technical spec. Also there are no decoders available for that. But my best guess is that it might be compatible to "conventional" HDR. I don't really know, though. |
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14th December 2015, 19:59 | #34635 | Link | |
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So this "peak brightness" selector only works if you have perfect blacks (stable and unchangable MLL where only the peak brightness changes, aka FALD or OLED display)??
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14th December 2015, 20:05 | #34636 | Link |
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I'm not sure why you keep trying to limit the "peak brightness selector" to specific conditions under which it might work or might not work. There is no such limit. And as I said, the display contrast got nothing to do with it.
HDR content that is mastered on e.g. a 4000 nits display should ideally be displayed on a 4000 nits display. If your display cannot do 4000 nits then madVR has to compress the highlights, otherwise the image would be much too dim overall. The difference between 1200 nits and 400 nits in the madVR "peak luminance" option is how much compression madVR applies to the luminance channel. The dimmer your display is the more compression madVR has to apply to make the image bright enough overall. Why don't you simply download some HDR content and try different settings for that madVR option and see which works best for you? I think for most people with today's display technology, the default setting of 600 nits should work well. If the image is too dim/dull for your taste, try 400 nits. If the image is too bright, try 900 nits or higher. |
14th December 2015, 20:12 | #34637 | Link |
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I understand that it compresses the range, what I don't understand is whether you assume that the display has infinitely low black leve and the only thing that changes is the peak brightness level?
The only free content that is available now is a couple of seconds of Life of Pi and Exodus right?
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14th December 2015, 20:20 | #34638 | Link |
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We're talking about digital processing. madVR outputs video content with a black level value of 0 (or 16 when using TV levels). Whether or not the display has infinitely low black levels or not isn't something madVR has to worry about.
Basically what madVR does is modifying the "gamma curve" (in words that might make more sense to you), to account for the difference in peak luminance capabilities between the mastering display and your display. |
14th December 2015, 20:26 | #34639 | Link |
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Got it, I'm kinda' slow today.
Sorry about that. BTW, it would by nice to bypass this feature for reference, or just to see how the image mapped across standard power curve gamma.
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System: i7 3770K, GTX660, Win7 64bit, Panasonic ST60, Dell U2410. Last edited by James Freeman; 14th December 2015 at 20:38. |
14th December 2015, 21:20 | #34640 | Link |
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Just switch to EVR or something. It looks terrible, totally lifeless and dull.
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direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling |
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