madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[psyside]

Originally Posted by madshi

For downscaling try SSIM1D 100, or Bicubic 150. For upscaling try NGU Anti-Alias (for very low res aliased sources) or NGU Sharp (for higher quality sources). The different in image quality will be larger if your source has sharp lines/features. With blurry sources you'll barely see a difference.

Thank you so much for your amazing work, and the time and effort, the replays i just saw, are just insane, never seen anything like it!

[madshi]

Originally Posted by fluffy01

I think I asked this before, but I can't remember if I actually did, or I just thought about it, so please forgive me, if I am repeating a previous query.

Is it possible to implement support for other 3D input formats than just MVC? I mean, when I convert my 3D blurays, I usually use a SBS or OU format, and it would be nice, if I was able to make madVR go into "3D-mode" for these, so I get all the same features with that as with "real" MVC-movies, instead of just playing them as 2D and then manually switching my projector to 3D.

Optimally, with will read the stereoscopic metadata from LAVFilters, and automatically detect the input format based on this and put madVR into 3D mode, when needed, and besides that, make a keyboard shortcut to manually tell madVR the input format of the video.

It's on my to do list.

Originally Posted by heiseikiseki

Would the algorithm of madshi can be a a plugin or a DLL library or something for other Picture viewer or Manga viewer to use?

Seems most of photo viewer is still using poor resize algorithm like bicubic or lanczos.

But NGU or even JINCS is much better than those resizer.

I'd like to enjoy these amazing technologies to view my photo and manga or picture in the future. Is it possible?

In theory anyone could write an image/picture viewer and use madVR with DirectShow as a render backend. It seems kind of overkill, but technically it would be possible.

Originally Posted by psyside

Thank you so much for your amazing work, and the time and effort, the replays i just saw, are just insane, never seen anything like it!

[Manni]

Originally Posted by madshi

So optimization worked this time? IIRC last time you got no sync at all with any of the optimized modes?

What happened is very weird. Initially, my usual mode didn't work, so I had to do try one of the optimized mode (the first one giving no drops with the highest compatibility factor, I think it was 80) and I was surprised it worked.

Then for some unknown reason, the next time I check the custom res had gone and I was back to 1 drop every 5mn.

I tried optimization again, and I was back to the old behaviour (none of the optimized modes would work) so I selected back my old default mode and that gave me back the usual 50mn before drops (in 4K23) which I'm happy with, even if not ideal.

Absolutely no idea what changed and as I doubt it has anything to do with MadVR I didn't post again to not waste your time.

Originally Posted by madshi

It's out of my control, unfortunately. There are 2 possible solutions:

1) I've reported to my Nvidia driver dev contact that Nvidia GPUs generally have a bad pixel clock / refresh rate for any x/1.001 modes. I hope that he can get this fixed. That way even without any custom modes we should get much better refresh rates, which should also help for 3D. But I don't know if this will get fixed, or how quickly.

2) You could try writing down the optimized timing mode data and create an EDID override based on that, using CRU. I've no idea if that will also affect 3D, though. Maybe an EDID override can also have an extra entry for 3D? I don't really know, to be honest.

Thanks. Lets hope nVidia does fix the defaults timings.

I'll try to take a look at CRU and see if I can get anything to work.

Is it just me or does everyone with nVidia has drops every 2mn or so in 3D?

Some people don't need FSE in 3D, I do. I might be interesting if nVidia users could post 1) if they need FSE or not for 3D in windows 10 with the latest 390.65 drivers and 2) how much time they get between frame drops.

Then maybe we'll see a pattern?

If you post, please provide OS and driver version, as well as GPU model (nVidia only). Prefered data would be for Window 10 build 1709 and latest 390.65 drivers.

Maybe need FSE = frame drops, no need for FSE = no frame drops?

I'll try to see if I get as much frame drops without FSE in 3D. I don't get 3D without FSE but the PJ does switch to 1080p23FP, so it might still provide some info re the frame drops in 3D windowed mode.

Thanks again for the feedback and help.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by Manni

Is it just me or does everyone with nVidia has drops every 2mn or so in 3D?

I think everyone has the same issue, both in 2D and 3D, when not using custom modes. When using custom modes: I don't know.

[madshi]

madVR v0.92.11 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

* added 2 new lower "remove compression artifacts" strengths
* slightly improved "remove compression artifacts" quality at lower strengths
* "remove compression artifacts" now always runs as part of NGU (if possible)
* display bitdepth now defaults to new "auto" setting (read from EDID)
* extended "if there are big black bars, reduce bar size" option range
* render target display is now shown in bold in the settings dialog
* added support for "execute command line on profile switch"
* when OS "HDR and Advanced Color" switch is active, FSE mode is disabled
* removed "exclusive" / "windowed" mode OSD notification
* added "(OS HDR)" vs "(NV HDR)" vs "(AMD HDR)" OSD information
* added downscaling "LL" (Linear Light) information to OSD
* added keyboard shortcut for opening settings dialog (default Ctrl+S)
* added keyboard shortcut for toggling seekbar on/off
* added keyboard shortcut for showing seekbar for 5 seconds
* added keyboard shortcut for toggling debanding on/off vs strength
* added file tag "detectBlackBars=on|off" or "blackBarDetection=on|off"
* added file tag "hdr=on|off" or "transfer=hdr|sdr|2084|709"
* added "battery" profile variable
* added "fullscreen" profile variable, can be exclusive or windowed
* renamed "fseMode" profile variable to "exclusive" ("fseMode" still works)
* fixed: "display" profile variable didn't work properly
* fixed: little "let madVR decide" chroma quadrupling bug
* fixed: screenshots were distorted with when using "crop black bars"
* fixed: screenshots in paused state sometimes crashed madVR
* fixed #320: make seeking to start of movie easier with FSE mode seek bar
* fixed #336: madHcCtrl: 3DLUT file path is evaluated for remote instance
* fixed #406: typing in "devices" profiles could jump to other pages
* fixed #481: distorted colors with Y416 input and DXVA processing
* added workaround for subtitle renderer crashes (XySubFilter, AssFilterMod)
* added workaround for PotPlayer OSD render crashes

As you can see, a long list of changes. But most of these are just bugfixes or small(ish) improvements that have been asked for in the past couple of months. More bugfixes to come in the next build.

I'd like your feedback, once more, for the following:

1) How does NGU Sharp + the new lowest RCA strength 1 look to you? Maybe NGU Sharp (only High and Very High) should always run with RCA strength 1 now, even if RCA is turned off? Or is it still better to allow NGU Sharp + RCA off?

2) If you have entered bugs into the tracker:

http://madvr.bugs.madshi.net

Please double check if your bugs are set to "feedback". Maybe I require your input to solve them.

3) The latest Windows 10 Fall Creators Update might/should contain a fix for switching to 24.000 Hz and 60.000 Hz refresh rates in both D3D9 and D3D11 FSE mode, without needing the madVR option "hack Direct3D to make 24.000 Hz and 60.000 Hz work" to be activated. Could you please double check this to confirm?

(FYI, in case you didn't know, older Windows 10 versions, and also Windows 8.1, like to switch to 23.976 Hz and 59.940 Hz in FSE mode, even if madVR asks for 24.000 Hz and 60.000 Hz.)

[mclingo]

Originally Posted by madshi

madVR v0.92.11 released....

wow, wasnt expecting this for a while, made may day !, thanks again for your hard work. )

[Neo-XP]

Originally Posted by madshi

1) How does NGU Sharp + the new lowest RCA strength 1 look to you? Maybe NGU Sharp (only High and Very High) should always run with RCA strength 1 now, even if RCA is turned off? Or is it still better to allow NGU Sharp + RCA off?

Do you mean we will not be able to use NGU Sharp High and Very High without RCA at strength 1?
I can not run NGU Sharp Very High with RCA, even at strength 1, so that means I will not be able to use NGU Sharp Very High anymore for sources that do not need RCA anyway?
I do not think I understand this right, or if I do, it is a bad idea.

Originally Posted by madshi

3) The latest Windows 10 Fall Creators Update might/should contain a fix for switching to 24.000 Hz and 60.000 Hz refresh rates in both D3D9 and D3D11 FSE mode, without needing the madVR option "hack Direct3D to make 24.000 Hz and 60.000 Hz work" to be activated. Could you please double check this to confirm?

(FYI, in case you didn't know, older Windows 10 versions, and also Windows 8.1, like to switch to 23.976 Hz and 59.940 Hz in FSE mode, even if madVR asks for 24.000 Hz and 60.000 Hz.)

It is fixed for me, I had this problem before, but now I do not need the hack anymore.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by Neo-XP

Do you mean we will not be able to use NGU Sharp High and Very High without RCA at strength 1?
I can not run NGU Sharp Very High with RCA, even at strength 1, so that means I will not be able to use NGU Sharp Very High anymore for sources that do not need RCA anyway?

Currently it's still the same as it was before, so no need to worry. However, I added 2 new lower RCA strength settings. What was strength 1 in v0.92.10 is now strength 3 in v0.92.11. So I'm asking if the new very low strength "1" setting is low enough to never harm.

Originally Posted by Neo-XP

It is fixed for me, I had this problem before, but now I do not need the hack anymore.

Good to hear!

[YxP]

RCA 1 doesn't seem to harm details but I'm also not so sure if it should be mandatory. Might as well keep low debanding on all the time as well then? My problem isn't even processing power, but the fact that NGU and some artifact removal combinations cause my GPU to produce clicking or ticking sounds, some more and some less.

[sneaker_ger]

Originally Posted by madshi

* fixed #320: make seeking to start of movie easier with FSE mode seek bar

[Neo-XP]

Originally Posted by madshi

Currently it's still the same as it was before, so no need to worry. However, I added 2 new lower RCA strength settings. What was strength 1 in v0.92.10 is now strength 3 in v0.92.11. So I'm asking if the new very low strength "1" setting is low enough to never harm.

I can not run RCA at strength "1" in v0.92.11 with NGU Sharp Very High, I get a lot of dropped frames. I can run NGU Sharp Very High without any problem without RCA.

For instance, for NGU Sharp Very High (FHD to UHD) I get ~26ms render time, but with RCA at strength "1" it jumps to ~58ms at medium and ~162ms at high

NGU Sharp Very High not usable anymore for me if you do this, and I just got a GTX1070TI for Christmas

Even if I had enough power, I would not want to use all that power for this, even if it never harm, I would better use it in something else or not use it at all.

Originally Posted by foozoor

It seems that igv finally succeeded in doing better than ngu sharp with fsrcnnx.
I literally can't see any differences...

Another troll obviously.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by YxP

RCA 1 doesn't seem to harm details but I'm also not so sure if it should be mandatory. Might as well keep low debanding on all the time as well then? My problem isn't even processing power, but the fact that NGU and some artifact removal combinations cause my GPU to produce clicking or ticking sounds, some more and some less.

Originally Posted by Neo-XP

I can not run RCA at strength "1" in v0.92.11 with NGU Sharp Very High, I get a lot of dropped frames. I can run NGU Sharp Very High without any problem without RCA.

For instance, for NGU Sharp Very High (FHD to UHD) I get ~26ms render time, but with RCA at strength "1" it jumps to ~58ms at medium and ~162ms at high

NGU Sharp Very High not usable anymore for me if you do this, and I just got a GTX1070TI for Christmas

Even if I had enough power, I would not want to use all that power for this, even if it never harm, I would better use it in something else or not use it at all.

I'm confused. If you use NGU Sharp, adding RCA on top should cost exactly zero additional performance! I would never consider forcing RCA on you if it costs any additional performance, so please stop worrying already...

Have you activated RCA for chroma channels, too? That costs extra performance, unless you use NGU Sharp for chroma upscaling, too.

[Neo-XP]

Originally Posted by madshi

I'm confused. If you use NGU Sharp, adding RCA on top should cost exactly zero additional performance! I would never consider forcing RCA on you if it costs any additional performance, so please stop worrying already...

Have you activated RCA for chroma channels, too? That costs extra performance, unless you use NGU Sharp for chroma upscaling, too.

No, "process chroma channels, too" not ticked. Am I doing something wrong?

I just tick "reduce compression artifacts, then strength "1" and quality "medium" or "high". Nothing else.

@madshi Are you sure that RCA runs with NGU Sharp by default now?

[YxP]

I'm not having any noticeable performance costs. Like I said, it's the extraneous noise that GPU generates. It's probably nothing you or nev (changing decoder in lavfilters affects this) can fix, but since I remember there were at least one or two others with this problem, I'd thought I'd mention it. If you REALLY want to have RCA1 as a baseline I can probably live with it.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by Neo-XP

No, "process chroma channels, too" not ticked. Am I doing something wrong?

I just tick "reduce compression artifacts, then strength "1" and quality "medium" or "high". Nothing else.

@madshi Are you sure that RCA runs with NGU Sharp by default now?

Strange, must be a bug in madVR then. If you create an empty file "ShowRenderSteps" in the madVR folder and then enable the OSD, does it list both "Deblock" and "NGU Upscaling" separately?

Originally Posted by YxP

I'm not having any noticeable performance costs. Like I said, it's the extraneous noise that GPU generates. It's probably nothing you or nev (changing decoder in lavfilters affects this) can fix, but since I remember there were at least one or two others with this problem, I'd thought I'd mention it. If you REALLY want to have RCA1 as a baseline I can probably live with it.

There should be no difference in either performance or noise, whatsoever, as long as NGU Sharp + RCA are running as a combined algorithm, compared to running NGU Sharp alone.

[YxP]

Just to make sure you don't think I'm crazy let me say it once more: there is some physical component in the GPU that's either faulty or god knows what reason makes a ticking noise when NGU is used. It's mysterious because it's not just about the load - gaming or NNEDI256 don't produce it.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by Neo-XP

@madshi Are you sure that RCA runs with NGU Sharp by default now?

Argh, I just noticed a bug: I've removed the option to let you decide if you want to run both combined or not, but I've not actually forced them to run combined and the setting is still there, but not available in the settings dialog, anymore.

Argh. Practically this means: New users will get the intended behaviour. "Old" users will get the option as they set it in v0.92.10, with no way to modify it, anymore. You can fix it by installing v0.92.10 again, then activate the option to run NGU Sharp + RCA together, then update to v0.92.11 again. Sorry for the confusion. Of course this will be fixed in the next build.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by YxP

Just to make sure you don't think I'm crazy let me say it once more: there is some physical component in the GPU that's either faulty or god knows what reason makes a ticking noise when NGU is used. It's mysterious because it's not just about the load - gaming or NNEDI256 don't produce it.

Yes, but that's got nothing to do with what we were talking about.

If you read the v0.92.11 release notes carefully, you'll notice that I never intended to make RCA run all the time, regardless of which upscaling algorithm you were using. I only suggested to enable it, in case NGU Sharp is already active, anyway, because in that situation RCA comes for free (both in terms of performance and noise). If NGU Sharp is already active, your GPU will already be "noisy", so it doesn't harm to also activate RCA in that situation, it won't cause the GPU to go even more noisy. If NGU Sharp is not active, I never planned to force RCA on you.

[Neo-XP]

Originally Posted by madshi

NGU Sharp (luma) upscaling is not active in any of those screenshots. So RCA doesn't come for free. You are using NGU chroma upscaling, but that doesn't make RCA available for the *luma* channel.

My bad, I tested with UHD content on FHD and UHD TV, so no upscaling to be done I deleted my post after noticing it, but you were too fast.

Long day at work do not help.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by Neo-XP

My bad, I tested with UHD content on FHD and UHD TV, so no upscaling to be done

No problem. So is it working for you now? See also this post of mine, in case you missed it:

https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php...ostcount=48371

What is your opinion about *image quality* when using NGU Sharp + the new RCA strength 1 setting. Is RCA strength 1 still harmful when used with NGU Sharp?