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Old 20th August 2019, 19:32   #1  |  Link
Bily
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audio and video quality in players

Hello

Which player has better audio and video quality:
MPV Player,
Classic media player or
VLC?

Is there a specific player setting for image quality and movie sound to perform at its best?

Do nvidia video cards have higher or lower video quality depending on the most expensive or cheapest line?

thank you
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Old 20th August 2019, 19:47   #2  |  Link
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madvr is the Dom Pérignon of video rendering, I prefer beer...
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Old 20th August 2019, 19:55   #3  |  Link
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madvr is the Dom Pérignon of video rendering, I prefer beer...

I understood nothing
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Old 20th August 2019, 20:30   #4  |  Link
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Many people think madvr has the best image quality, most people are happy with vlc, many people are not able to notice a difference. There is a significant amount of posts about madvr in the forum, it's probably the largest thread.

Last edited by stax76; 20th August 2019 at 20:33.
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Old 20th August 2019, 20:36   #5  |  Link
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Many people think madvr has the best image quality, most people are happy with vlc, many people are not able to notice a difference. There is a significant amount of posts about madvr in the forum, it's probably the largest thread.


what is madvr?
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Old 20th August 2019, 20:48   #6  |  Link
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madVR is a DirectShow video render that is compatible with many DirectShow players, such as MPC-HC, MPC-BE, Zoom Player, etc. It requires a decent GPU for best quality and has lots of options.

As stax76 alluded to, the differences are reasonably subtle. As long as it is working properly all video decoders deliver the same image, the improvements come from better methods to scale the image to the screen and convert the 4:2:0 video data to RGB for display.

Audio is similar, if you do not need to resample or mix the audio every method will give very similar quality. Video is more work because 4:2:0 is not directly usable so you have to do some conversions.

This post will probably take some Googling to make sense.
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Old 20th August 2019, 21:20   #7  |  Link
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madVR is a DirectShow video render that is compatible with many DirectShow players, such as MPC-HC, MPC-BE, Zoom Player, etc. It requires a decent GPU for best quality and has lots of options.

As stax76 alluded to, the differences are reasonably subtle. As long as it is working properly all video decoders deliver the same image, the improvements come from better methods to scale the image to the screen and convert the 4:2:0 video data to RGB for display.

Audio is similar, if you do not need to resample or mix the audio every method will give very similar quality. Video is more work because 4:2:0 is not directly usable so you have to do some conversions.

This post will probably take some Googling to make sense.
So do you believe the quality of video and audio using MPC-HC with madVR and without madVR is very similar?

may not compensate for the use of madVR?

can you help me with this topic:
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.p...29#post1882329

thank you so much
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Old 21st August 2019, 00:44   #8  |  Link
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Well it depends on what you mean by "very similar", of course. I much prefer madVR and use it all the time, just to do proper bicubic chroma upscaling and a 3DLUT on low-end systems.

That said we have had users report that they cannot see any difference using various madVR options. To me NGU very high is a lot better than DXVA or whatever scaling the standard renders use. stax76 has been improving mpv as well, so that is probably better than Windows' EVR and similar.

Audio quality will not change with madVR. The important thing with audio is to convert and/or mix it as little as possible. Audio and Video quality are often player independant, with DirectShow players able to change both the audio and video renderers they use.

Sorry, I don't know your MPC-HC question. I am a rabid fan of Zoom Player myself.
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Old 21st August 2019, 01:26   #9  |  Link
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I'm interested in upscale Full-HD movies to 4K
Madvr does it very well right?

where can i find installation tutorial of: madVR for MPC-HC for win 7 64 bit?
it looks like my bluetooth headset here works better with the MPC-HC

my video card is: Nvidia Geforce GTX 960 - 2Gb
is she compatible?

Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can use shaders?
to get an image result equal to the image on the right of the link:
https://blog.systempix.com/wp-conten...2/shaders1.jpg

In case of TV or monitor calibration:
leaves it with factory default settings?


if i don't like madVR can i reverse the process?
does this do with MPC-HC RESET?


thank you so much already

Last edited by Bily; 21st August 2019 at 01:47.
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Old 21st August 2019, 01:51   #10  |  Link
stax76
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@Asmodian

I've not been working on anything rendering related, libmpv does all that, it has a fair amount of high quality features but I'm more interested in other aspects of mpv.
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Old 21st August 2019, 03:37   #11  |  Link
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I see, thanks for the info. I have been lurking your MPV thread and noticed some discussion that made me realize that its renderer was better quality than EVR or similar. Somehow I thought you were working on its renderer as well.

@Bily
I don't think you need a tutorial, just install it and and look through the settings menu. I do not know of any that are current, it is hard to keep them up to date. A 960 2GB will work for madVR but you may need to turn down the GPU buffer sizes for 1080p -> 4K with only 2GB of ram. Doubling the resolution, as in 1080p -> 4K, is madVR's ideal use case. A 960 will not be able to use the highest quality settings but more then the minimum. madVR has several built in shaders (it calls them upscaling refinements) you can tweak to your heart's content. Generally I don't use any of them unless the source is bad in some way.

For calibration you need extra hardware, like a spectrometer or colorimeter, to create a custom 3DLUT. Or you simply set madVR to "this display is already calibrated" to whatever your display thinks it is, usually BT.709/2.2 or maybe DCI-P3/2.2 for a newer HDR display. I do not recommend using others' 3DLUTs.
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Old 21st August 2019, 04:51   #12  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
I see, thanks for the info. I have been lurking your MPV thread and noticed some discussion that made me realize that its renderer was better quality than EVR or similar. Somehow I thought you were working on its renderer as well.

@Bily
I don't think you need a tutorial, just install it and and look through the settings menu. I do not know of any that are current, it is hard to keep them up to date. A 960 2GB will work for madVR but you may need to turn down the GPU buffer sizes for 1080p -> 4K with only 2GB of ram. Doubling the resolution, as in 1080p -> 4K, is madVR's ideal use case. A 960 will not be able to use the highest quality settings but more then the minimum. madVR has several built in shaders (it calls them upscaling refinements) you can tweak to your heart's content. Generally I don't use any of them unless the source is bad in some way.

For calibration you need extra hardware, like a spectrometer or colorimeter, to create a custom 3DLUT. Or you simply set madVR to "this display is already calibrated" to whatever your display thinks it is, usually BT.709/2.2 or maybe DCI-P3/2.2 for a newer HDR display. I do not recommend using others' 3DLUTs.


actually my monitor is full hd
i will still buy a 4k

I don't read your language well
so if you can give me a detailed step by step tutorial I appreciate it already

I wanted to improve the image and sound of MPC-hc
to get an image result equal to the image on the right of the link:

https://blog.systempix.com/wp-conten...2/shaders1.jpg

and I wanted to improve the sound so it wouldn't be unstable and out of sync in the middle of the movie

it's possible ?

thanks
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Old 21st August 2019, 14:11   #13  |  Link
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If the colors look washed out then this setting often fixes it:
NVIDIA Control Panel -> Video -> Adjust video color settings -> Select "With the NVIDIA settings" -> Advanced tab -> Set Dynamic Range to "Full (0-255)"

The audio problem is not something you can fix with player settings. If audio is unstable it probably means there is interference in the wireless connection.
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Old 21st August 2019, 17:57   #14  |  Link
Bily
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Originally Posted by clsid View Post
If the colors look washed out then this setting often fixes it:
NVIDIA Control Panel -> Video -> Adjust video color settings -> Select "With the NVIDIA settings" -> Advanced tab -> Set Dynamic Range to "Full (0-255)"

The audio problem is not something you can fix with player settings. If audio is unstable it probably means there is interference in the wireless connection.

I did this procedure and it seems that nothing has changed

it's normal ?
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Old Yesterday, 01:45   #15  |  Link
Bily
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Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
I see, thanks for the info. I have been lurking your MPV thread and noticed some discussion that made me realize that its renderer was better quality than EVR or similar. Somehow I thought you were working on its renderer as well.

@Bily
I don't think you need a tutorial, just install it and and look through the settings menu. I do not know of any that are current, it is hard to keep them up to date. A 960 2GB will work for madVR but you may need to turn down the GPU buffer sizes for 1080p -> 4K with only 2GB of ram. Doubling the resolution, as in 1080p -> 4K, is madVR's ideal use case. A 960 will not be able to use the highest quality settings but more then the minimum. madVR has several built in shaders (it calls them upscaling refinements) you can tweak to your heart's content. Generally I don't use any of them unless the source is bad in some way.

For calibration you need extra hardware, like a spectrometer or colorimeter, to create a custom 3DLUT. Or you simply set madVR to "this display is already calibrated" to whatever your display thinks it is, usually BT.709/2.2 or maybe DCI-P3/2.2 for a newer HDR display. I do not recommend using others' 3DLUTs.


Hi

for use on a "full-hd" monitor can the GTX 960 video card use the highest quality settings?

What video card do you recommend to use on 4K monitor with highest quality settings?

Was this worth using MadVR with LavFilters and shaders?

thanks
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Old Yesterday, 17:32   #16  |  Link
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The 960 can probably get close assuming no upscaling refinements, max quality with madVR is pretty extreme.

You need a 2080 Ti for near max quality on a 4K display, and even with that I need to make some tradeoffs for 60 Hz and/or HDR content. The quality differences between NGU very high and high are not very significant but very high takes a lot more GPU power.
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Old Yesterday, 18:29   #17  |  Link
Bily
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Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
The 960 can probably get close assuming no upscaling refinements, max quality with madVR is pretty extreme.

You need a 2080 Ti for near max quality on a 4K display, and even with that I need to make some tradeoffs for 60 Hz and/or HDR content. The quality differences between NGU very high and high are not very significant but very high takes a lot more GPU power.


What do I have to do to find out the correct setting for my video card?

in my case a: Geforce GTX 960
my monitor is full-hd led

thank you for your attention

Last edited by Bily; Yesterday at 18:33.
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Old Yesterday, 19:08   #18  |  Link
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The best way is to open madVR's OSD (ctrl-J) and watch the average rendering times, they need to be below the frame time so you don't get any dropped frames.

Use madVR defaults but turn off all trade quality for performance options, except "don't rerender frames when fade in/out is detected", I keep that one enabled all the time. "Scale chroma separately, if it saves performance" and "optimize subtitle quality for performance instead of quality" are also fine to leave enabled, especially for 4K screens. Then set chroma upscaling to NGU, Anti-Alias and keep turning it down until you do not get dropped frames. Medium or high is great for chroma upscaling, very high is not recommended. If you have to use low other scaling option might be useful too, super-xbr 100 is popular.

madVR settings can get a lot more complicated, for example I much prefer disabling "use colored noise" and "change dither for every frame" in the dithering options, but beyond using NGU AA for chroma upscaling I think the other settings are mostly preference. Even using NGU AA for chroma upscaling can be rationally argued with.
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Old Yesterday, 19:46   #19  |  Link
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Originally Posted by clsid View Post
If the colors look washed out then this setting often fixes it:
NVIDIA Control Panel -> Video -> Adjust video color settings -> Select "With the NVIDIA settings" -> Advanced tab -> Set Dynamic Range to "Full (0-255)"
I do not recommend doing this. This setting is for the video that comes in the video renderer. Usually this is NV12/P010 with a range of 16-235. It’s better to leave the default settings.

@Bily
You ask a lot of questions on how to improve the quality, but don’t say what exactly does not suit you in the default settings.
You have created many topics in which you ask about the settings of MPC-HC instead of asking in the topic "MPC-HC v1.8.7". This is wrong, IMHO.
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Old Yesterday, 20:12   #20  |  Link
Bily
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I do not recommend doing this. This setting is for the video that comes in the video renderer. Usually this is NV12/P010 with a range of 16-235. It’s better to leave the default settings.

@Bily
You ask a lot of questions on how to improve the quality, but don’t say what exactly does not suit you in the default settings.
You have created many topics in which you ask about the settings of MPC-HC instead of asking in the topic "MPC-HC v1.8.7". This is wrong, IMHO.
I'm sorry for the mess

I'm learning to use the forum

thanks for listening
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