Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 21st March 2019, 08:44   #1  |  Link
Sunset1982
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 277
MadVR in use with LG OLED Thread

So here it is: The MadVR / LG OLED Thread.

Let's discuss the benefits of different TV modes (pc mode, game mode, aso...) and the best TV settings for the highest possible quality in use with madvr.


Here is my setup:

LG 65'' C8 OLED (latest firmware: 04.10.31)
HTPC with AMD Vega RX 56 (Driver 19.3.2)
MadVR (Version 0.92.17)
Windwos 10, Kodi DS Player

My current settings:

TV:
non-pc mode (HDMI 1)
Picture mode: technicolor Preset
Real Cinema: On
True Motion / Motion Pro: off/off
Black Level: auto
HDMI Ultra Deep Color: on

AMD settings:

RGB 4:4:4, 10 Bit


MadVR:
PC levels (0-255)
display bitdepth: auto
display modes: 2160p23 for movies

other madvr quality settings:

reduce banding artifacts low (default strength), low (fade in/out)
chroma upscaling: NGU AA, medium
image upscaling: NGU Sharp, high



What would be the benefits of using pc mode? chroma 4:4:4?

I thought that pc mode only works with 60hz and when changing to 23/24hz it pops out of pc mode. Is that right? (I've read that some years ago in a tv review...)

edit:

I just testet tv mode with different driver settings (rgb444, ybcbr 444, ybcbcr 422) and I got banding with all settings in pc mode while I get no banding with normal mode and rgb 4:4:4.
__________________
Intel i5 6600, 16 GB DDR4, AMD Vega RX56 8 GB, Windows 10 x64, Kodi DS Player 17.6, MadVR (x64), LAV Filters (x64), XySubfilter .746 (x64)
LG 4K OLED (65C8D), Denon X-4200 AVR, Dali Zensor 5.1 Set

Last edited by Sunset1982; 21st March 2019 at 10:10.
Sunset1982 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st March 2019, 16:07   #2  |  Link
Asmodian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 3,597
Have you used the ChromaRes.png test image to see if you are getting sub-sampled chroma? I assume you are anytime you are not in PC mode. If so I would never go above Jinc for chroma upscaling, and 3-tap spline is probably more appropriate; more is simply wasting power.

I also have noticeably worse banding when sending my TV (LG OLED C7) more than 8 bits in PC mode, have you tried using RGB 4:4:4 8 bit in your AMD settings?
__________________
madVR options explained
Asmodian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st March 2019, 19:20   #3  |  Link
VBB
Registered User
 
VBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 50
This is actually a good opportunity for @Sunset1982 to test if 10-bit output with AMD has more banding than 8-bit output. That's something us Nvidia users simply can't do. I'm mostly interested in non-PC mode, since I rely on De-Judder.
__________________
Henry

LG OLED65C7P | VIZIO M70-C3 | Denon AVR-X3500H | Elac Uni-Fi | Elac Debut 2.0 SUB3030
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960 | LAV Filters | madVR | MPC-HC | Plex | X-Rite i1Display Pro | DisplayCAL | HCFR
VBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd March 2019, 01:44   #4  |  Link
Blue_MiSfit
Derek Prestegard IRL
 
Blue_MiSfit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 5,512
I've had good luck using MadVR to output high quality UHD SDR and HDR10 to several LG TVs (B6 / C7). It's fiddly, but it does work
Blue_MiSfit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd March 2019, 09:05   #5  |  Link
RXP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 20
Just a tip for anyone trying HDR tone mapping with an LG. Just setup two profiles, one with passthrough and one with tone mapping and a keyboard shortcut for each. Ensure you're on the right drivers for passthrough to work. Then flip back and forth between them to see what you like.

Asmodian, thanks for that info. I was wasting GPU power with chroma upsampling. All this is so placebo!
RXP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd March 2019, 10:44   #6  |  Link
j82k
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 119
As I wrote in the madVR thread I was trying to use pc-mode on the LG C8 using ycbcr444, which seemed to work ok for SDR.

But that didn't last long, watched an HDR movie and noticed problems with the near-black range. Looking at an HDR black clipping pattern it looks messed up in pc-mode compared to non-pc, switching to full/limited RGB didn't change that.

What I also noticed is that in SDR the gamma curve is different (darker) in pc-mode even when using the exact same settings as in non-pc mode.

So I'm back to standard hdmi input mode. Getting 444 chroma on this TV seems to be impossible without some major issues.
j82k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd March 2019, 11:08   #7  |  Link
kostik
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by j82k View Post
As I wrote in the madVR thread I was trying to use pc-mode on the LG C8 using ycbcr444, which seemed to work ok for SDR.

But that didn't last long, watched an HDR movie and noticed problems with the near-black range. Looking at an HDR black clipping pattern it looks messed up in pc-mode compared to non-pc, switching to full/limited RGB didn't change that.

What I also noticed is that in SDR the gamma curve is different (darker) in pc-mode even when using the exact same settings as in non-pc mode.

So I'm back to standard hdmi input mode. Getting 444 chroma on this TV seems to be impossible without some major issues.
So you are back to RGB 8bit full for both SDR and HDR content or you switch to RGB 12bit full @23Hz for HDR?

What chain did end up using:? graphics card->madVR->TV ?
__________________
TV :LG OLED 65C8 ; PC:CPU: I7-7700K OC 5.1GHz ; GPU: Gigabyte GeForceŽ GTX 1080 WINDFORCE OC 8G ;Memory: Corsair Vengeance RGB (2X8GB) DDR4 3100MHz, ;
kostik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd March 2019, 11:46   #8  |  Link
iSeries
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 599
PC mode is indeed unusable for an HTPC on the C8, many issues. In non-PC mode, 12bit RGB results in more banding than 8bit, so I use 8bit. This was also the case for the C7. I have an nvidia card so no way of testing 10bit RGB output from the GPU.

I find limited>full>limited to be optimal for this TV but other people may of course have a different opinion on that.

Last edited by iSeries; 22nd March 2019 at 11:49.
iSeries is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd March 2019, 12:03   #9  |  Link
j82k
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by kostik View Post
What chain did end up using:?
madVR limited 8-bit > gpu fullRGB 8-bit > TV limited
(this is the common sequence to describe the chain I think)

is what I've been using previously and what I'm currently using again for both SDR and HDR. That will mess up levels outside of madVR though.
But if I want to game or do something else I'll just switch to a preset with the TV set to full.
Always 8-bit, like iSeries said 12-bit = banding.
j82k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd March 2019, 13:01   #10  |  Link
iSeries
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 599
What I still want to do is compare ycbcr output from the GPU vs RGB. As the TV in non-PC mode is converting to ycbcr anyway, the GPU might actually do as good (or better) job than the TV at this and with nvidia (from what I remember) there is a 10bit option when outputting ycbcr. Will look at this over the weekend.
iSeries is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd March 2019, 13:04   #11  |  Link
j82k
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 119
Out of curiosity, what color format do newer blu-ray players output?
j82k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd March 2019, 13:07   #12  |  Link
Klaus1189
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Bavaria
Posts: 584
Do you think of color space or color subsampling, or both?
Klaus1189 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd March 2019, 13:18   #13  |  Link
iSeries
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by j82k View Post
Out of curiosity, what color format do newer blu-ray players output?
My 1080p bluray player (couple years old) has options for 4:2:2 ycbcr, 4:4:4 ycbcr, or RGB. With the UHD players I believe they offer those choices too, along with up to 12bit output. By default on 'auto' pretty sure they all output ycbcr at either 4:2:2 or 4:4:4
iSeries is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd March 2019, 15:48   #14  |  Link
SamuriHL
Registered User
 
SamuriHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 4,201
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSeries View Post
I find limited>full>limited to be optimal for this TV but other people may of course have a different opinion on that.
That's what I use.
__________________
HTPC: Windows 10, I9 9900k, RTX 2070 Founder's Edition, Pioneer Elite VSX-LX303, LG C8 65" OLED
SamuriHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd March 2019, 15:51   #15  |  Link
nevcairiel
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamburg/Germany
Posts: 9,759
From reading all this, its a shame that LG really hasn't change over all the years. They were always decent to good at making panels, but everything else, be it software or processing .. just sub-par.

PS:
I don't like limited -> full -> limited, because it messes up the ability to play any other type of content, ie. Netflix etc, since the Desktop is still full-range, but the TV expects elsewise.
Unless browsers obey the video range setting in the graphics control panel reliably? I can't say I have really tested that. But still leaves the 10ft UI etc with wrong color range.
__________________
LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders

Last edited by nevcairiel; 22nd March 2019 at 15:57.
nevcairiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd March 2019, 15:52   #16  |  Link
SamuriHL
Registered User
 
SamuriHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 4,201
I would agree with that assessment. Nowhere near the quality of my Panny plasma. Still very bitter I can't get a Panny screen in the states as I like the looks of their newest OLED.
__________________
HTPC: Windows 10, I9 9900k, RTX 2070 Founder's Edition, Pioneer Elite VSX-LX303, LG C8 65" OLED
SamuriHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd March 2019, 18:35   #17  |  Link
kostik
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 128
Anyone using madVR 'tonemapping' test builds ? What settings do you use for hdr?
__________________
TV :LG OLED 65C8 ; PC:CPU: I7-7700K OC 5.1GHz ; GPU: Gigabyte GeForceŽ GTX 1080 WINDFORCE OC 8G ;Memory: Corsair Vengeance RGB (2X8GB) DDR4 3100MHz, ;
kostik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd March 2019, 18:41   #18  |  Link
VBB
Registered User
 
VBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 50
So, why do you guys have it at Limited -> Full -> Limited? I've had zero issues with the entire chain set to 8-bit Full. Just curious.
__________________
Henry

LG OLED65C7P | VIZIO M70-C3 | Denon AVR-X3500H | Elac Uni-Fi | Elac Debut 2.0 SUB3030
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960 | LAV Filters | madVR | MPC-HC | Plex | X-Rite i1Display Pro | DisplayCAL | HCFR
VBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd March 2019, 20:34   #19  |  Link
j82k
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 119
Mainly two reasons for the limited - full - limited chain.

I use the LG C8 as a secondary screen, so I couldn't care less if this messes up levels outside of madVR. All that stuff is done on my primary monitor.


1. My panel is a bit darker and also greener towards the left side and I'm using a shader to somewhat rectify this.
With this chain, video levels above 235 aren't clipped so the shader can go above 235. With a full-full-full chain white would already be maxed out.
Also in rare cases (content with elevated blacks) I can set madVR levels a little bit below 16 which again with a full-full-full chain you can't.


2. This is just a pure assumption but since most devices for video playback will require the TV to be set to limited, I'm just assuming that if there is a difference (which I haven't tested) it will be limited causing less trouble with this TV.
j82k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd March 2019, 06:54   #20  |  Link
Sunset1982
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 277
I did some quick banding tests a view days ago. 8bit gave me the best results with the least amount of banding. 10bit had a bit o banding. I will do some advanced tests wirh more settings within the next days. I will receive my new i1disply pro colorimeter (old one is broken) to do some calibration work, maybe I can get some better results.

btw, I am very happy with my vega56 card. Got ootb 23,976 with no framedrops/repeats in over 3-5 hours. Performance is also good. The only downside is coilwhine. Its the first time I got a card with this amount of coilwhine.

I am planning to move my c8 oled to my bedroom and buy a new c9 for my htpc usage in the living room. Mainly because of the new bfi and calibration feautures. with the 2019 lg oled range it is possible to calibrate pc mode and game mode. hopefully we can use a bit more of the tvs settings within pc mode (real cinema). we will see what the first reviews will show.
__________________
Intel i5 6600, 16 GB DDR4, AMD Vega RX56 8 GB, Windows 10 x64, Kodi DS Player 17.6, MadVR (x64), LAV Filters (x64), XySubfilter .746 (x64)
LG 4K OLED (65C8D), Denon X-4200 AVR, Dali Zensor 5.1 Set
Sunset1982 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:55.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.