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Old 11th January 2017, 00:03   #4601  |  Link
froggy1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpsvk View Post
and what about psy-rd?
psy-rd is beneficial and is not related to intra smoothing. I find a value of 3.5 to be "optimal"
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Old 11th January 2017, 15:31   #4602  |  Link
jlpsvk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by froggy1 View Post
psy-rd is beneficial and is not related to intra smoothing. I find a value of 3.5 to be "optimal"
interesting....with --psy-rd 3.5 the encode is actualy about 1fps faster...wonder why...
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Old 11th January 2017, 18:02   #4603  |  Link
LigH
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1 fps faster than ... 2 fps or 20 fps without? Please get used to percentages.
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Old 11th January 2017, 20:11   #4604  |  Link
qtwigg
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Me 4

ME's 3, 4, and 5 compared.

Commands used:
--crf 22 --preset slow --tune ssim --profile main10 --output-depth 10 --min-cu-size 16 --ctu 32 --no-strong-intra-smoothing --no-constrained-intra --ssim

Star

encoded 4329 frames in 1138.22s (3.80 fps), 4239.98 kb/s, Avg QP:26.59, SSIM Mean Y: 0.9778734 (16.551 dB)

Start: 8:13:58 PM
End: 8:32:57 PM
Duration: 00:18:58

HEVC : 91.3 MiB 1920*1080 (16:9), at 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS, HEVC (Main 10@L4@Main)

SEA

encoded 4329 frames in 3069.85s (1.41 fps), 4236.64 kb/s, Avg QP:26.58, SSIM Mean Y: 0.9778637 (16.549 dB)

Start: 2:55:52 PM
End: 3:47:03 PM
Duration: 00:51:10

HEVC : 91.2 MiB 1920*1080 (16:9), at 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS, HEVC (Main 10@L4@Main)

Full

encoded 4329 frames in 15629.88s (0.28 fps), 4237.87 kb/s, Avg QP:26.59, SSIM Mean Y: 0.9778782 (16.552 dB)

Start: 3:51:22 PM
End: 8:11:53 PM
Duration: 04:20:30

HEVC : 91.2 MiB 1920*1080 (16:9), at 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS, HEVC (Main 10@L4@Main)

Sample Clips
Star - https://mega.nz/#!t8tAVIxB!ymjIIy21U...ZO_4JS1U2P1ZwM
SEA - https://mega.nz/#!og80HBia!gpV7atvaB...bHZANPw7dFV2TU
Full - https://mega.nz/#!J48T3YaR!QSm3uVZTN...BPWwl3ZbnxCLaU

Not worth it. In all scenarios for best results/encoding times, continue use me star on. Thanks.
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Old 11th January 2017, 21:32   #4605  |  Link
jlpsvk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LigH View Post
1 fps faster than ... 2 fps or 20 fps without? Please get used to percentages.
Code:
--crf 20 --output-depth 10 --preset slow --rd 6 --tu-intra-depth 4 --tu-inter-depth 4 --amp --qpstep 8 --bframes 8 --rc-lookahead 60 --min-keyint 24 --keyint 240 --no-open-gop --colorprim bt709
--colormatrix bt709 --transfer bt709 --deblock -3:-3 --psy-rdoq 10 --no-sao --high-tier --qg-size 8 --aq-motion --rd-refine --ssim-rd --aq-mode 3 --no-strong-intra-smoothing
This command gives me about 3.9fps encode speed. With --psy-rd 3.5 it's about 1fps faster. So about 20-25% faster. Don't really know why.

Last edited by jlpsvk; 11th January 2017 at 23:26.
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Old 12th January 2017, 02:22   #4606  |  Link
littlepox
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qtwigg View Post
ME's 3, 4, and 5 compared.

Commands used:
--crf 22 --preset slow --tune ssim --profile main10 --output-depth 10 --min-cu-size 16 --ctu 32 --no-strong-intra-smoothing --no-constrained-intra --ssim

Star

encoded 4329 frames in 1138.22s (3.80 fps), 4239.98 kb/s, Avg QP:26.59, SSIM Mean Y: 0.9778734 (16.551 dB)

Start: 8:13:58 PM
End: 8:32:57 PM
Duration: 00:18:58



HEVC : 91.3 MiB 1920*1080 (16:9), at 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS, HEVC (Main 10@L4@Main)

SEA

encoded 4329 frames in 3069.85s (1.41 fps), 4236.64 kb/s, Avg QP:26.58, SSIM Mean Y: 0.9778637 (16.549 dB)

Start: 2:55:52 PM
End: 3:47:03 PM
Duration: 00:51:10

HEVC : 91.2 MiB 1920*1080 (16:9), at 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS, HEVC (Main 10@L4@Main)

Full

encoded 4329 frames in 15629.88s (0.28 fps), 4237.87 kb/s, Avg QP:26.59, SSIM Mean Y: 0.9778782 (16.552 dB)

Start: 3:51:22 PM
End: 8:11:53 PM
Duration: 04:20:30

HEVC : 91.2 MiB 1920*1080 (16:9), at 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS, HEVC (Main 10@L4@Main)

Sample Clips
Star - https://mega.nz/#!t8tAVIxB!ymjIIy21U...ZO_4JS1U2P1ZwM
SEA - https://mega.nz/#!og80HBia!gpV7atvaB...bHZANPw7dFV2TU
Full - https://mega.nz/#!J48T3YaR!QSm3uVZTN...BPWwl3ZbnxCLaU

Not worth it. In all scenarios for best results/encoding times, continue use me star on. Thanks.

impressive, would you please add the comparison for umh?
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Old 12th January 2017, 04:02   #4607  |  Link
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I found the same thing. I'm currently encoding so won't do another comparison, but from the testing I did a while back STAR was beneficial over UMH in quality and the speed difference was very minimal. You almost get Full search quality at an encode speed similar to UMH. In theory you would expect SEA to be better than STAR. I also did some tests comparing the subpel refinement. Basically for the clip tested 2 was the ideal choice.

Level of RDO is an area for improvement I think. I use 4 because it has a good speed/quality tradeoff (yes I know 4 is basically the same as 3 currently). RD level 5 produces nice results but there is a massive performance hit. Combine --rd 5 with --rd-refine and --opt-cu-delta-qp and it produces a nice result. --rd-refine and --opt-cu-delta-qp are only available in RD 5 and 6.

I'm assuming it's possible to shortcut the extra calculations in --rd 5 as has been done with TU intra and enabled with --limit-tu 3 (for example), and like with --limit-modes and using --amp (which then has a negligible performance impact). I think if something along those lines could be done with --rd 5 and made the new -rd 4, it would be great. Likewise, using --rd-refine and --opt-cu-delta-qp as default options in this mode. The --rd-refine I'm assuming could also be shortcut (and use the shortcut from the rd level). By shortcut I mean like --limit-modes, --limit-refs etc.

I believe this new --rd 4 level if it could be achieved with minimal performance penalty over --rd 3 would be great!

Also a much more mild Sample Adaptive Offset loop filter would be good because currently (as discussed previously by others and myself) it loses detail with no real benefit. I can see in theory it should be better to have enabled, I think having it at a strength of say, 30 percent of what it currently is would be good. Hey, why not give the option to specify a strength, with 1.0 being the current strength and 0.3 (or whatever is found to be the most subjectively appealing) being the default strength?

Another idea is --strong-intra-smoothing. The help states 'This flag performs bi-linear interpolation of the corner reference samples for a strong smoothing effect.'. How about bicubic interpolation?

Last edited by burfadel; 12th January 2017 at 04:11.
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Old 12th January 2017, 20:01   #4608  |  Link
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Can we expect some large steps in terms of x265 encoding quality in general and necessary bitrate for a given visual quality in the coming months? I ask because I have a lot of material to encode and would like to choose a good moment for that. Is there an overview of the improvements in the x265 codec in form of a graph or a chart? With build "a" bitrate "xxxx" was required to reach quality level "q"... and so on?
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Old 12th January 2017, 20:06   #4609  |  Link
LigH
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How do you measure visual quality?
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Old 12th January 2017, 21:28   #4610  |  Link
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anybody can explain, why the same command with psy-rd is 20% faster the the same without psy-rd?
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Old 12th January 2017, 21:39   #4611  |  Link
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How much did the bitrate in your encode change? Entropy coding could be a factor.
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Old 12th January 2017, 21:41   #4612  |  Link
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about 1mbit/s more (from 3100 to 4100kbps - so about 33% more...with CRF20. with CRF21 i am back at CRF20 bitrate without psy-rd...but image is better i think...can post screenshots) with --psy-rd 3.5. clean BD source without grain (miss peregrin's home for peculiar children).

Last edited by jlpsvk; 12th January 2017 at 22:59.
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Old 12th January 2017, 22:30   #4613  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winston_Smith_101 View Post
Can we expect some large steps in terms of x265 encoding quality in general and necessary bitrate for a given visual quality in the coming months?
http://x265.readthedocs.io/en/default/releasenotes.html

Stable releases come, on average, every 6 months. Every one brings some sort of "quality" improvement, especially v2.0. If you don't like x265's output now, wait 6 months.

Quote:
I ask because I have a lot of material to encode and would like to choose a good moment for that.
Using the absolute latest x265 build, run some short test encodes of different sources at a simple baseline of CRF20, Preset Medium, Profile Main10, Tune Grain and see what you get.

Don't like the quality? Try CRF19 Preset Slow.

Don't like the size? Try CRF21 Preset Fast.

Don't like any of it? Wait 6 months.

Only YOU can decide what you want.
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Old 12th January 2017, 23:40   #4614  |  Link
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Any reason to be PSY-RD by default 0.0?
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Old 12th January 2017, 23:45   #4615  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatZit View Post
http://x265.readthedocs.io/en/default/releasenotes.html

Stable releases come, on average, every 6 months.
We're on our 22nd release in about 44 months. We've been slower to tag new versions in the last 2 years, but we are striving to get back to a new version every 2 months.
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Old 13th January 2017, 07:36   #4616  |  Link
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Can anybody explain please? According to x265 online documentation, psy-rd is 2.0 by default.

But with:
Code:
--output-depth 10 --preset slow --rd 6 --tu-intra-depth 4 --tu-inter-depth 4 --amp --qpstep 8 --bframes 8 --rc-lookahead 60 --min-keyint 24 --keyint 240 --no-open-gop --colorprim bt709
--colormatrix bt709 --transfer bt709 --deblock -3:-3 --psy-rdoq 10 --no-sao --high-tier --qg-size 8 --aq-motion --rd-refine --ssim-rd --aq-mode 3 --no-strong-intra-smoothing
I am getting psy-rd=0.0 in MediaInfo....

Code:
Writing library                          : x265 2.2+22-20217c8af8ac:[Windows][GCC 6.2.0][64 bit] 10bit
Encoding settings                        : cpuid=1173503 / frame-threads=3 / numa-pools=8 / wpp / no-pmode / no-pme / no-psnr / no-ssim / log-level=2 / input-csp=1 / input-res=1920x1024 /
interlace=0 / total-frames=1429 / level-idc=0 / high-tier=1 / uhd-bd=0 / ref=4 / no-allow-non-conformance / no-repeat-headers / annexb / no-aud / no-hrd / info / hash=0 / no-temporal-layers
/ no-open-gop / min-keyint=24 / keyint=240 / bframes=8 / b-adapt=2 / b-pyramid / bframe-bias=0 / rc-lookahead=60 / lookahead-slices=4 / scenecut=40 / no-intra-refresh / ctu=64
/ min-cu-size=8 / rect / amp / max-tu-size=32 / tu-inter-depth=4 / tu-intra-depth=4 / limit-tu=0 / rdoq-level=2 / signhide / no-tskip / nr-intra=0 / nr-inter=0 / no-constrained-intra
/ no-strong-intra-smoothing / max-merge=3 / limit-refs=3 / limit-modes / me=3 / subme=3 / merange=57 / temporal-mvp / weightp / no-weightb / no-analyze-src-pics / deblock=-3:-3 / no-sao
/ no-sao-non-deblock / rd=6 / no-early-skip / rskip / no-fast-intra / no-tskip-fast / no-cu-lossless / no-b-intra / rdpenalty=0 / psy-rd=0.00 / psy-rdoq=10.00 / rd-refine / analysis-mode=0
/ no-lossless / cbqpoffs=0 / crqpoffs=0 / rc=crf / crf=20.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpstep=8 / stats-write=0 / stats-read=0 / ipratio=1.40 / pbratio=1.30 / aq-mode=3 / aq-strength=1.00 / cutree /
zone-count=0 / no-strict-cbr / qg-size=8 / no-rc-grain / qpmax=69 / qpmin=0 / sar=1 / overscan=0 / videoformat=5 / range=0 / colorprim=1 / transfer=1 / colormatrix=1 / chromaloc=0 /
display-window=0 / max-cll=0,0 / min-luma=0 / max-luma=1023 / log2-max-poc-lsb=8 / vui-timing-info / vui-hrd-info / slices=1 / opt-qp-pps / opt-ref-list-length-pps / no-multi-pass-opt-rps
/ scenecut-bias=0.05 / no-opt-cu-delta-qp / aq-motion
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Old 13th January 2017, 08:08   #4617  |  Link
LigH
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No certain explanation, just a guess ... the "encoding settings" are a plain text string. So the reason is most probably either in a wrong assignment of a default value, or a wrong conversion of the current float value to the text contained in this string. If it appears correctly when you add a custom value for this parameter, then it is probably a mistake in the defaults for the specific preset(s). Or it is overridden by a following parameter.
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Old 13th January 2017, 08:30   #4618  |  Link
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When I was testing --psy-rd 3.5, it appears correctly.
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Old 13th January 2017, 10:13   #4619  |  Link
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--ssim-rd sets --psy-rd to 0.0
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Old 13th January 2017, 10:49   #4620  |  Link
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Forget my post if you already read it, I just remembered what nevcairiel said. For now it is disabled with --ssim-rd whilst an experimental feature, but at least you can set it manually!

Last edited by burfadel; 13th January 2017 at 10:51.
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