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Old 7th December 2017, 18:17   #47561  |  Link
HillieSan
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I am not using reclock and I am not using Bluesky FRC.

I think you should not use reclock for your RX 550. Bluesky FRC is a better alternative.
You must add Bluesky FRC to the external filters in mpc be/hc or potplayer.

EDIT: And you need to turn on AMD Fluid Motion Video in the driver.

Does your TV/projector/monitor support 23 Hz? If it does than don't use any tools. Let the RX 550 do it. This is what I use.

Last edited by HillieSan; 7th December 2017 at 18:28.
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Old 7th December 2017, 18:42   #47562  |  Link
mclingo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HillieSan View Post
I am not using reclock and I am not using Bluesky FRC.

I think you should not use reclock for your RX 550. Bluesky FRC is a better alternative.
You must add Bluesky FRC to the external filters in mpc be/hc or potplayer.

EDIT: And you need to turn on AMD Fluid Motion Video in the driver.

Does your TV/projector/monitor support 23 Hz? If it does than don't use any tools. Let the RX 550 do it. This is what I use.
right, so you're not using reclock or FRC at the moment, you're desktop is 4k and you are using windows 10 fall update - and you're not getting any frame drops or repeats??
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Old 7th December 2017, 18:48   #47563  |  Link
HillieSan
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Yes, that's right :-)

I don't think that Windows 10 fall update causes the frame drops and repeats.

Last edited by HillieSan; 7th December 2017 at 18:51.
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Old 7th December 2017, 18:52   #47564  |  Link
HillieSan
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What display are you using? brand and type
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Old 7th December 2017, 18:56   #47565  |  Link
mclingo
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Originally Posted by HillieSan View Post
Yes, that's right :-)
ok thanks very much for confirming, in that case something must be wrong with my setup, without reclock MADVR is locked to frame drops every 40 seconds almost bang on in everything, 4k and 1080p material.

could you help with the below?

- can you post your list of display modes in MADVR
- what do you have ticked in MADVR rendering page?
- have you tweaked anything from stock MADVR anywhere in rendering or anything relevant anywhere else?
- which media player are you using?
- what interval is CONTROL J showing in between dropped frames / repeated frames exactly, can you post a screen shot?
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Old 7th December 2017, 19:00   #47566  |  Link
HillieSan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclingo View Post
without reclock MADVR is locked to frame drops every 40 seconds almost bang on in everything
That's good (= normal) :-) It should perform drop frames every 2 seconds without using anything.

First I need to know your display to see what settings you need.

Last edited by HillieSan; 7th December 2017 at 19:58.
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Old 7th December 2017, 19:12   #47567  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Rippner View Post
default

I can try
Change the value for for both maximum slow down and Maximum speed up to 5%. Once done clean all of your frame rate history under advanced.
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Old 7th December 2017, 19:47   #47568  |  Link
HillieSan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclingo View Post
ok thanks very much for confirming, in that case something must be wrong with my setup, without reclock MADVR is locked to frame drops every 40 seconds almost bang on in everything, 4k and 1080p material.

could you help with the below?

- can you post your list of display modes in MADVR
- what do you have ticked in MADVR rendering page?
- have you tweaked anything from stock MADVR anywhere in rendering or anything relevant anywhere else?
- which media player are you using?
- what interval is CONTROL J showing in between dropped frames / repeated frames exactly, can you post a screen shot?
Please let me know what display you are using. It is important to know what the display is able to do.

In the meantime I give you some of my settings :-)

It wrote them here as 5 different steps. I hope that this will help.

-------------------------------------------------------------

STEP 1 -- Windows --

Delete reclock.
Update Windows and drivers.

STEP 2 -- LAV 0.70.2.80--

Hardware Decoder to use: D3D11
Hardware Device to use: Automatic (Native)
Software Deinterlacing Algorithm: No Software Deinterlacing

STEP 3 -- MADVR 0.92.9 --

devices->display->display modes->

[v] switch to match display mode...
(0) .. when playback starts

the rest is unticked or empty

processing->artifact removal->

all unticked

processing->image enhancements->

all unticked

scaling algorithms->chroma upscaling->

only Jinc ticked

scaling algorithms->image downscaling->

only SSIM ticked and set to '1D-strength 100%'

scaling algorithms->image upscaling->

option NGU Sharp is ticked and algoritm quality set to 'high',
all other options are set to 'let madVR decide'

Note: I think you should set algoritm quality to 'medium'

scaling algorithms->upscaling refinement->

all unticked

rendering->general settings->

[v] delay playback start until render queue is full
[v] use Direct3D 11 for presentation (Windows 7 and newer)
[v]present a frame for every VSync

all other options are uniticked

CPU queue size: 16
GPU queue size: 8

rendering->windows mode->

[v] present several frames in advanced

all default

rendering->exclusive mode->

all default

Note: I read here in forum that a buffer of 4 is better than 8 in order to avoid FSE black screen problem. I must test this.

rendering->smooth rendering->

unticked

rendering->dithering->

(0) Ordered Dithering
[v] use colored noise
[v] change dither for every frame

trade quality for performance->

all unticked

STEP 4 -- Player --

I use the MPC BR player. In Options->Externe Filter add

[v] LAV Splitter
[v] LAV Video Decoder
[v] LAV Audio Decoder
[v] LAC Splitter Source
[v] madVR

All these filters are set to highest priority.
This works the same for MPC HC and Potplayer.

Note: If you use Bluesky FRC then you must also add this as a filter here. Set it to the highest priority and move it above madVR filter. Bluesky FRC must be put before mapVR.

STEP 5 -- Notes --

If you start MPC BE or if you change the slider bar in MPC BE then you will see some frame drops or repeats in crtl-J. that is normal.

If you set LAV, madVR and MPC BE as above and you still exprience judder then it is time to look at your display. You can assume that the chain above is doing it right, but the display may need some minor adjustments as well (like enabling the motion anhancer). This would be the last step.

Last edited by HillieSan; 7th December 2017 at 19:52.
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Old 7th December 2017, 20:07   #47569  |  Link
mclingo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HillieSan View Post
Please let me know what display you are using. It is important to know what the display is able to do.

In the meantime I give you some of my settings :-)

It wrote them here as 5 different steps. I hope that this will help.

-------------------------------------------------------------

STEP 1 -- Windows --

Delete reclock.
Update Windows and drivers.

STEP 2 -- LAV 0.70.2.80--

Hardware Decoder to use: D3D11
Hardware Device to use: Automatic (Native)
Software Deinterlacing Algorithm: No Software Deinterlacing

STEP 3 -- MADVR 0.92.9 --

devices->display->display modes->

[v] switch to match display mode...
(0) .. when playback starts

the rest is unticked or empty

processing->artifact removal->

all unticked

processing->image enhancements->

all unticked

scaling algorithms->chroma upscaling->

only Jinc ticked

scaling algorithms->image downscaling->

only SSIM ticked and set to '1D-strength 100%'

scaling algorithms->image upscaling->

option NGU Sharp is ticked and algoritm quality set to 'high',
all other options are set to 'let madVR decide'

Note: I think you should set algoritm quality to 'medium'

scaling algorithms->upscaling refinement->

all unticked

rendering->general settings->

[v] delay playback start until render queue is full
[v] use Direct3D 11 for presentation (Windows 7 and newer)
[v]present a frame for every VSync

all other options are uniticked

CPU queue size: 16
GPU queue size: 8

rendering->windows mode->

[v] present several frames in advanced

all default

rendering->exclusive mode->

all default

Note: I read here in forum that a buffer of 4 is better than 8 in order to avoid FSE black screen problem. I must test this.

rendering->smooth rendering->

unticked

rendering->dithering->

(0) Ordered Dithering
[v] use colored noise
[v] change dither for every frame

trade quality for performance->

all unticked

STEP 4 -- Player --

I use the MPC BR player. In Options->Externe Filter add

[v] LAV Splitter
[v] LAV Video Decoder
[v] LAV Audio Decoder
[v] LAC Splitter Source
[v] madVR

All these filters are set to highest priority.
This works the same for MPC HC and Potplayer.

Note: If you use Bluesky FRC then you must also add this as a filter here. Set it to the highest priority and move it above madVR filter. Bluesky FRC must be put before mapVR.

STEP 5 -- Notes --

If you start MPC BE or if you change the slider bar in MPC BE then you will see some frame drops or repeats in crtl-J. that is normal.

If you set LAV, madVR and MPC BE as above and you still exprience judder then it is time to look at your display. You can assume that the chain above is doing it right, but the display may need some minor adjustments as well (like enabling the motion anhancer). This would be the last step.


wow, cheers, i'll dial these in when i get home from work and get back to you.

edit - you are doing a lot of processing and shapening / deblacking here, these settings ruin my picture, I tend to have all this off as most of my stuff is 1080p and 4k, also by ticking all of the trade quality for performance boxes arent you degrading your image?


is there a reason you are using lav .80 instead of the latest 82?

Last edited by mclingo; 7th December 2017 at 20:17.
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Old 7th December 2017, 20:21   #47570  |  Link
steakhutzeee
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Evening, in the section i posted the screenshot below, i always used NGU Sharp with luma doubling setted to high. All the rest let madvr decide.

Yesterday i saw a youtube video where the user suggested to use these settings, what do you think? I'm not expert so i'm testing:

https://postimg.org/image/nis3mwkjv/

Another question, if i use Ctrl J during video, i can see that my monitor frequency is 59,9 or something similar. Never 60. Is this right this way?
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Last edited by steakhutzeee; 7th December 2017 at 20:32.
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Old 7th December 2017, 20:22   #47571  |  Link
mclingo
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fixed it... swapped 1080p24 for 1080p23 and now i'm back to hours without a frame drop, i've never has to use this before, must be something with latest versions or fall update, i've only ever used 24p display mode prior to this. I need to test this further though.
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Old 7th December 2017, 20:45   #47572  |  Link
HillieSan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclingo View Post
wow, cheers, i'll dial these in when i get home from work and get back to you.

edit - you are doing a lot of processing and shapening / deblacking here, these settings ruin my picture, I tend to have all this off as most of my stuff is 1080p and 4k, also by ticking all of the trade quality for performance boxes arent you degrading your image?


is there a reason you are using lav .80 instead of the latest 82?
I wrote unticked = not ticked (unselected). So I am not using shapening/deblacking etc,

I haven't updated LAV yet.
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Old 7th December 2017, 20:50   #47573  |  Link
HillieSan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclingo View Post
fixed it... swapped 1080p24 for 1080p23 and now i'm back to hours without a frame drop, i've never has to use this before, must be something with latest versions or fall update, i've only ever used 24p display mode prior to this. I need to test this further though.
That's good news. If you get my setting to work you may get some more performance.
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Old 7th December 2017, 21:14   #47574  |  Link
mclingo
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sorry i misread, thanks for your help. Any idea why i'm having to use 23p display mode instead of 24p? which i've used with AMD card for over 10 years
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Old 7th December 2017, 21:30   #47575  |  Link
HillieSan
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Originally Posted by HillieSan View Post
I am using an AMD RX 480 with madvr and it is working well. It also works well after the latest Windows updates and driver updates. I use full screen windowed mode instead of FSE. FSE doesn’t work well with NVidia and AMD, which I believe is a madvr issue. I love the stability of the RX 480.

However, I can only set the RX 480 to ‘NGU Sharp – High’ with all additional enhancements turned off to avoid skipping frames. I have experimented with ‘NGU Sharp – Very High’ and other enhancements and I must say that I see no differences between high and very high. The enhancements are also negligible.

I can think of two main reasons why I can’t see differences

1. I use high quality (almost BR quality) films: 1080 -> 4K
2. The projector (JVC X5000) picture grain cannot enhance the differences

A third reason could perhaps be my RX 480. I am not sure. What if I compare my ‘RX 480 – NGU Sharp – High’ to a ‘GTX 1070Ti – NGU Sharp – Very High (with enhancements turned on)’, will I see a significant difference?

I am asking this because I am planning to buy a new graphics card for my gaming PC. I was thinking of moving the RX 480 from the HTPC to the gaming PC. Then I need a new gfx card in my HTPC. The GTX 1080 is far too expensive and the AMD RX 580 is in my budget but it is similar to my RX 480. Another candidate could be the GTX 1070 Ti. With the GTX 1070 Ti I assume that I can set madvr to ‘NGU Sharp - Very High’ with most enhancements turned on. Is this right? I also want to use HDR in the future. Will the GTX 1070 Ti significantly improve the picture quality which I did not get with my RX 480?

BTW What I don’t want to use is reclock and other workaround tools with NVidia. For my AMD RX 480 I don’t need this and I get a most stable result. My projector switches to the appropriate frequency for the movie.

I need some advice.
Thanks.

I need some advice.
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Old 7th December 2017, 22:23   #47576  |  Link
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10bit

Is it safe to say that with the latest madVR version one can get 10bit output without using FSE?
I tried with both D3D11 exclusive and D3D11 fullscreen windowed and I believe both are the same.

Is it true? I don't know how to really interpret the OSD. Need you help.



Thanks in advance
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Old 7th December 2017, 22:30   #47577  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HillieSan View Post
I use full screen windowed mode instead of FSE. FSE doesn’t work well with NVidia and AMD, which I believe is a madvr issue. I love the stability of the RX 480.
It is a Windows 10 issue, it really is a non-issue though because you don't need to use FSE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HillieSan View Post
However, I can only set the RX 480 to ‘NGU Sharp – High’ with all additional enhancements turned off to avoid skipping frames. I have experimented with ‘NGU Sharp – Very High’ and other enhancements and I must say that I see no differences between high and very high. The enhancements are also negligible.
I can think of two main reasons why I can’t see differences

1. I use high quality (almost BR quality) films: 1080 -> 4K
2. The projector (JVC X5000) picture grain cannot enhance the differences
The differences are subtle and your inability to notice these very minor differences are probably due to the projector and the screen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HillieSan View Post
I am asking this because I am planning to buy a new graphics card for my gaming PC. I was thinking of moving the RX 480 from the HTPC to the gaming PC. Then I need a new gfx card in my HTPC. The GTX 1080 is far too expensive and the AMD RX 580 is in my budget but it is similar to my RX 480. Another candidate could be the GTX 1070 Ti. With the GTX 1070 Ti I assume that I can set madvr to ‘NGU Sharp - Very High’ with most enhancements turned on. Is this right? I also want to use HDR in the future. Will the GTX 1070 Ti significantly improve the picture quality which I did not get with my RX 480?
There will be no quality differences between the RX 480 and 1070 Ti beyond those caused by different settings in madVR. Pascal runs NGU faster than Polaris so the 1070 Ti will allow higher settings. The quality difference between NGU high and very high is pretty minor though, I am not sure it is worth hundreds of dollars especially since you cannot see the difference on your projector.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HillieSan View Post
BTW What I don’t want to use is reclock and other workaround tools with NVidia. For my AMD RX 480 I don’t need this and I get a most stable result. My projector switches to the appropriate frequency for the movie.
I was able to tune nearly perfect refresh rates with Nvidia, with frame drops expected less often than every 6 hours. I do not use Reclock or similar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BatKnight View Post
Is it safe to say that with the latest madVR version one can get 10bit output without using FSE?
I tried with both D3D11 exclusive and D3D11 fullscreen windowed and I believe both are the same.

Is it true? I don't know how to really interpret the OSD. Need you help.
Yes, this is true. D3D11 fullscreen windowed supports 10bit output.
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Old 7th December 2017, 23:37   #47578  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
It is a Windows 10 issue, it really is a non-issue though because you don't need to use FSE.



The differences are subtle and your inability to notice these very minor differences are probably due to the projector and the screen.



There will be no quality differences between the RX 480 and 1070 Ti beyond those caused by different settings in madVR. Pascal runs NGU faster than Polaris so the 1070 Ti will allow higher settings. The quality difference between NGU high and very high is pretty minor though, I am not sure it is worth hundreds of dollars especially since you cannot see the difference on your projector.



I was able to tune nearly perfect refresh rates with Nvidia, with frame drops expected less often than every 6 hours. I do not use Reclock or similar.



Yes, this is true. D3D11 fullscreen windowed supports 10bit output.
its not a non issue as you have to use FSE to get MVC 3D frame packed to play, I know no other way and i dont want to go back to SBS.
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Old 8th December 2017, 00:46   #47579  |  Link
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Originally Posted by HillieSan View Post
I need some advice.
Hi, I dont see any difference either, again possible due to the fact all my movies are self ripped from blurays as remuxes, I prefer my movies on hard disk for quick access.

I had a go with FRC, its great at movement but it glitches now and again, not too often but I prefer zero glitches. My main issue with it is that it softens the picture too much for me and there are artifacts.

I have an LG 65 inch OLED, the tru motion on that is actually pretty good for smoothing video, on option 4 i get just the right amount of smoothing with only a tiny loss in sharpness which I make up using super RES on the TV anyway.

One thing I have learnt of the last few weeks though, if your HTPC is working well, disabled all updates and leave it the sh1t alone

I used to be a big PC gamer, used to spend hundreds on cards every year and always had problems and there was always some faffing about, never looked back since I moved to PS4 pro now, I was never a multiplayer gamer anyway and the uncharted series is by far the best set of games ever created, obviously IMHO.
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Old 8th December 2017, 05:13   #47580  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclingo View Post
its not a non issue as you have to use FSE to get MVC 3D frame packed to play, I know no other way and i dont want to go back to SBS.
On my Nvidia 1060 I'm able to do 3d frame packed in window mode with the fall update. I should be getting the thing back tomorrow so I can test some more. Stupid ups... Was supposed to be delivered today. I believe you're using amd so it may be different there. But with Nvidia it's certainly possible.

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