Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 1st May 2018, 23:01   #50521  |  Link
Betroz
Is this for real?
 
Betroz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Norway
Posts: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberscott View Post
I have the same issue. Happened right after installing Win10 build 1803. Reinstalled Nvidia drivers, madVR, MPC-BE/CE, no change, Definite issue caused by the new Win10 build 1803.
Good to know I'm not the only one who has this problem. I wonder if Madshi must change MadVr in some way, or if it is a Win10 1803 bug.
__________________
My HTPC : i9 10900K | nVidia RTX 4070 Super | TV : Samsung 75Q9FN QLED
Betroz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st May 2018, 23:05   #50522  |  Link
Betroz
Is this for real?
 
Betroz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Norway
Posts: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by mclingo View Post
When you say you are dropping frames, what does you CONTROL-J screen look like?, are you using refresh rate switching and playing movies at 23,976, how close are to this now, are your CRU's working? Have you reinstalled MADVR and LAV filters from scratch, I had to do that after creators update, i'm using an AMD RX card though.
I added a screenshot to my original post, pending approval. I formatted my SSD and installed Windows, MadVR and everything from scratch.

CRU's ?
__________________
My HTPC : i9 10900K | nVidia RTX 4070 Super | TV : Samsung 75Q9FN QLED
Betroz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st May 2018, 23:09   #50523  |  Link
mclingo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betroz View Post
I added a screenshot to my original post, pending approval. I formatted my SSD and installed Windows, MadVR and everything from scratch.

CRU's ?
you need to add custom resolutions to madvr for nvidia cards if you want to get close to 23,976 smooth playback, that probably isnt the issue but you'll get dropped frames.

post your sceen again using a web link like drop box, they take ages to get approved on here.
mclingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st May 2018, 23:27   #50524  |  Link
ryrynz
Registered User
 
ryrynz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,646
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberscott View Post
I have the same issue. Happened right after installing Win10 build 1803. Reinstalled Nvidia drivers, madVR, MPC-BE/CE, no change, Definite issue caused by the new Win10 build 1803.
But did you change the power management mode back to Adaptive? I kinda doubt this is "definite Windows issue"
ryrynz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd May 2018, 00:34   #50525  |  Link
zaemon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 27
I switched to Win 10 from Win 8 and did a clean install. Now native D3D11 works as expected. The only « problem » being that zoom control doesn’t seem to work. So I’m back to copy-back and I’m fine with that.
zaemon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd May 2018, 00:38   #50526  |  Link
cyberscott
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
But did you change the power management mode back to Adaptive? I kinda doubt this is "definite Windows issue"
Yep, even set it to Maximum Performance. No change.

For fun, I tried a few things.

I installled the Windows 10 1803 Spring Update on another older computer, different processor brand (Intel) and different Nvidia card and the same issue with the madVR happened on that system.

For more fun, I rolled back my main rig to the previous Windows 10 build and MadVR worked as it did before the update.

So, for me and my system, Windows 10 1803 is the culprit.

I have reinstalled Windows 10 1803 on my main rig again, and the problem came back. I'm sticking with it for now as I've seen performance increases with games and I want to mess around a bit with the new features.
**

More info I can provide, after further testing is that standard definition upscaling to 4K is more affected. I've had to lower NGU settings down from Very High to High (luma) and drop "reduce compression artifacts quality from "very high" to "high" to make things playable. Render and Present queues will go no higher than 6, even if set higher.

Upscaling 720 or 1080p material to 4k, the GPU queue will not fill above 16 now but I could max it to 24 prior to the Windows update. 720 or 1080p material at 4K still work at my old settings and render times are nearly 5 miliseconds *less* than before the Windows 10 update. Not sure if that is real or not but I'll take it.

A side note, I even removed all over clocking to my rig with no change.

For full clarification, I have a Ryzen 1800x @ 4.25, GTX 1080 Ti, madVR 92.14, LAV 0.71.0.16, and use the latest versions of MPC-BE and MPC-CE. I upscale everything to 4k (using profiles for different resolutions) with frame rate switching, on a LG 4k OLED TV.
cyberscott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd May 2018, 00:39   #50527  |  Link
ryrynz
Registered User
 
ryrynz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,646
Updated to 1803, I have no problems with madVR on my 1060.
ryrynz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd May 2018, 00:46   #50528  |  Link
ryrynz
Registered User
 
ryrynz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,646
Quote:
Originally Posted by mclingo View Post
Windows 10 doesn't automatically give full write access to MADVR folder
Might be an idea at least until a proper installer is added to madVr that the batch file is improved to provide RW access to the installed folder.
ryrynz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd May 2018, 02:00   #50529  |  Link
rahzel
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 359
Can someone help me narrow down my issue?

I don't use my HTPC a whole lot, the last time I watched a video on it was probably a little over a month ago and I didn't have any issues.

I recently updated my HTPC (Win10) to the new April 1803 build and now when I put my videos in full screen exclusive mode, I get around 4 seconds of black screen, then when the video appears there are a few hundred dropped frames within a few seconds, and then the video finally plays smooth as normal. While this is all happening, the audio is still playing back at normal speed without interruption. So basically when I enter FSE, it takes like ~8 seconds to finally start playing back normal with zero dropped frames.

I'm using the same settings as before, so I'm confused as to why I'm suddenly having this issue. Maybe Win10 updated the video driver?

Anyway, my specs are:
Intel Celeron G1820
Radeon 7750
4GB RAM
Win 10 64-bit 1803 build

Latest MPC HC 64-bit and latest Madvr. I was actually using a slightly older MPC/MadVR when I first noticed the problem, then I updated them both to the latest.

edit: Apparently it's Win10's new 'focus assist' feature which mutes notifications when doing select activities. When I enter FSE it thinks I'm playing a game and turns focus assist on. I turned focus assist off when playing games and it's fine now.

I'll leave this post up in case someone else has this issue.

Last edited by rahzel; 2nd May 2018 at 02:07.
rahzel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd May 2018, 02:02   #50530  |  Link
ntropy
Registered User
 
ntropy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
I suggest 8bit and “this display is already calibrated” to DCI-P3.
Thanks. What about hdr settings?
ntropy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd May 2018, 02:21   #50531  |  Link
Asmodian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 4,406
Passthrough is what I use now.
__________________
madVR options explained
Asmodian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd May 2018, 03:18   #50532  |  Link
tzr916
Registered User
 
tzr916's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Stockton, CA
Posts: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Updated to 1803, I have no problems with madVR on my 1060.

Same here. GTX1060, no issues after Win10 v1803.
Before the update, I was running nvidia v388.59.
After the update windows installed v391.35.
Upscale to 4k (No HDR, No FSE mode).
__________________
GTX1660Ti 6GB, H270M, i5-7500 3.4GHz, 16GB PC4-19200,Win10 Pro 64, JriverMC, Silicondust Tv Tuners, Denon AVRX2200, Sony XBR-Z9D

Last edited by tzr916; 2nd May 2018 at 03:20.
tzr916 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd May 2018, 04:15   #50533  |  Link
cyberscott
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberscott View Post
Yep, even set it to Maximum Performance. No change.

For fun, I tried a few things.

I installled the Windows 10 1803 Spring Update on another older computer, different processor brand (Intel) and different Nvidia card and the same issue with the madVR happened on that system.

For more fun, I rolled back my main rig to the previous Windows 10 build and MadVR worked as it did before the update.

So, for me and my system, Windows 10 1803 is the culprit.

I have reinstalled Windows 10 1803 on my main rig again, and the problem came back. I'm sticking with it for now as I've seen performance increases with games and I want to mess around a bit with the new features.
**

More info I can provide, after further testing is that standard definition upscaling to 4K is more affected. I've had to lower NGU settings down from Very High to High (luma) and drop "reduce compression artifacts quality from "very high" to "high" to make things playable. Render and Present queues will go no higher than 6, even if set higher.

Upscaling 720 or 1080p material to 4k, the GPU queue will not fill above 16 now but I could max it to 24 prior to the Windows update. 720 or 1080p material at 4K still work at my old settings and render times are nearly 5 miliseconds *less* than before the Windows 10 update. Not sure if that is real or not but I'll take it.

A side note, I even removed all over clocking to my rig with no change.

For full clarification, I have a Ryzen 1800x @ 4.25, GTX 1080 Ti, madVR 92.14, LAV 0.71.0.16, and use the latest versions of MPC-BE and MPC-CE. I upscale everything to 4k (using profiles for different resolutions) with frame rate switching, on a LG 4k OLED TV.
One more thing to add before I head off to bed.
If I activate full screen exclusive mode, the queues fill up properly and the display rate changes correctly but the composition rate is stuck at 60Hz. This causes incrementing presentation glitches. If I go windowed, the composition rate goes back to mirroring the display rate.
Done troubleshooting shooting for tonight. Everyone have a good day/evening!

Last edited by cyberscott; 2nd May 2018 at 04:18. Reason: spelling
cyberscott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd May 2018, 04:40   #50534  |  Link
ntropy
Registered User
 
ntropy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
Passthrough is what I use now.
That looks washed out on the iMac.
ntropy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd May 2018, 05:01   #50535  |  Link
Asmodian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 4,406
Oh right, sorry. You don't have an HDR display. Do you have the brightness all the way up? I would not like to use a display at 500 nits for SDR content.

On that display you would definitely convert to SDR, probably "process HDR content by using pixel shader math" on default settings but with peak nits somewhere between 400 and 1000 (or lower, where you like it).
__________________
madVR options explained
Asmodian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd May 2018, 05:29   #50536  |  Link
ntropy
Registered User
 
ntropy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
Oh right, sorry. You don't have an HDR display. Do you have the brightness all the way up? I would not like to use a display at 500 nits for SDR content.

On that display you would definitely convert to SDR, probably "process HDR content by using pixel shader math" on default settings but with peak nits somewhere between 400 and 1000 (or lower, where you like it).
Brightness is at about 30%. At first I tried "convert HDR content to SDR by using pixel shader math" with "target peak nits" at 500 which worked for most content but not all and then I selected "let madVR decide" which seems to work for all content.
ntropy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd May 2018, 06:58   #50537  |  Link
Asmodian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 4,406
If your brightness is at 30% then don't using the "500 nits" marketing as a data point, it is probably closer to 120-180 nits. It is 500 nits at 100% brightness (and nits is not linear with brightness).

I thought that "let madVR decide" would be the same as converting to SDR with your display, it converts to SDR with pixel shader math on SDR displays and does passthrough on HDR displays. That said maybe it does do something different, ignoring or overwriting bad metadata comes to mind from past discussion. We do know the paths are different, based on a recent bug that had an effect when set to convert to SDR with pixel shaders but not when using let madVR decide.
__________________
madVR options explained
Asmodian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd May 2018, 07:58   #50538  |  Link
Betroz
Is this for real?
 
Betroz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Norway
Posts: 168
Screenshot of the problem I have with Win10 1803 and MadVr.

Sorry for the bad image quality, but I used my phone to take a screenshot of a episode av SG-1 to show my performance problem with MadVR in the new 1803 build of Windows 10.

The MadVr settings i use here worked perfectly before the Windows update, with no dropped frames. As you can see from the screenshot, is that after only a minute or so, there is a lot of dropped frames. Again, I have also tried 3 different nVidia drivers with no change. 388.13, 391.35 and the newest 397.31 drivers. So there seems to be a problem with the 1803 update to Win10.



Edit : Uploaded a smaller image.
__________________
My HTPC : i9 10900K | nVidia RTX 4070 Super | TV : Samsung 75Q9FN QLED

Last edited by Betroz; 2nd May 2018 at 08:05.
Betroz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd May 2018, 08:02   #50539  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,903
can you try normal queue sizes?
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd May 2018, 08:09   #50540  |  Link
Betroz
Is this for real?
 
Betroz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Norway
Posts: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
can you try normal queue sizes?
I could try, but again these are the same settings in MadVr I used before the update to Win10, and I got no dropped frames back then. So why change to normal queue sizes?
__________________
My HTPC : i9 10900K | nVidia RTX 4070 Super | TV : Samsung 75Q9FN QLED
Betroz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 15:34.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.