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Old 9th June 2014, 02:54   #41  |  Link
mandarinka
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Slides from a talk Monty Montgomery gave about Daala got published, in case people are interested: http://xiphmont.livejournal.com/63285.html
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Old 9th June 2014, 13:30   #42  |  Link
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How does the encoder perform these days?
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Old 9th June 2014, 17:45   #43  |  Link
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I haven't tried it myself yet. It's not going to be practical by any measure for a long time, and you have to build it yourself, naturally.
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Old 9th June 2014, 23:19   #44  |  Link
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Did they ever have a stated quality goal? If it was ~50% of HEVC's filesize for equal quality, then they have roughly 10 years to get something together.
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Old 9th June 2014, 23:32   #45  |  Link
benwaggoner
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Did they ever have a stated quality goal? If it was ~50% of HEVC's filesize for equal quality, then they have roughly 10 years to get something together.
Slide 10 has "Be best-in-class or go home"

Given this is a presentation from the VP9 conference, it's surprisingly full of digs at VP9 as a technology and a process throughout.

Anyone who's read this much really should read the deck. It's good.

There's lots of interesting ideas in there, but it's waaay too early and raw to make any kind of prediction for how it'll stack up against HEVC or other alternatives.
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Old 24th June 2014, 09:16   #46  |  Link
Nintendo Maniac 64
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Given this is a presentation from the VP9 conference, it's surprisingly full of digs at VP9 as a technology and a process throughout.
Most of the slides are exactly the same as those found in the presentation given back in October that was linked on the first page of this thread:
http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/vid..._and_Daala.ogv

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HEVC wouldn't have been possible in 2005; processing power gains contribute a huge amount to what's possible to put in a widely used standard
Actually, the Athlon 64 x2 was released in mid 2005 with a clockrate range of 2GHz to 2.4GHz, so real-time decoding of HEVC would have been possible:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...top_processors

For reference I can decode 1280x720 30fps HEVC with "only" around 70% CPU usage on my 2.5GHz Brisbane (65nm) via MPC-HC v1.7.5 32bit. Compared to the original 90nm Athlon 64 x2 CPUs, the 65nm Brisbane CPUs have half the L2 cache which, as Tom's Hardware determined, results in them being slower than the original 90nm versions:
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Originally Posted by http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/processor-architecture-benchmark,2974-15.html

Last edited by Nintendo Maniac 64; 24th June 2014 at 09:32.
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Old 25th June 2014, 08:40   #47  |  Link
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Actually, the Athlon 64 x2 was released in mid 2005 with a clockrate range of 2GHz to 2.4GHz, so real-time decoding of HEVC would have been possible:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...top_processors

For reference I can decode 1280x720 30fps HEVC with "only" around 70% CPU usage on my 2.5GHz Brisbane (65nm) via MPC-HC v1.7.5 32bit. Compared to the original 90nm Athlon 64 x2 CPUs, the 65nm Brisbane CPUs have half the L2 cache which, as Tom's Hardware determined, results in them being slower than the original 90nm versions:
Well, CoreAVC with multithreading was first released in March 2006, the ffmpeg with slice-based threading in late 2006 and with frame-based threading in early 2008, whereas now it's part of the initial HEVC implementations. I'll definitely admit it's not as much harder to decode relative to the prior best codec as the jump from ASP to AVC, though. (Excluding multi-point GMC, which brought my XP2400+ to its knees.)
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Old 10th July 2014, 07:38   #48  |  Link
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found this on there IRC channel
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Daala passes JPEG and VP8, matches H.264, and closes in on HEVC
...on still images at least :-)
http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/dem.../update1.shtml
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Old 10th July 2014, 07:41   #49  |  Link
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If it passes VP8 on still images, then it's already made WebP obsolete.

That was fast, and now it gives Mozilla more justification for not supporting WebP.

Last edited by Nintendo Maniac 64; 10th July 2014 at 07:44.
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Old 10th July 2014, 12:20   #50  |  Link
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More or less good but at some samples Daala artifacts (repeating not natural patterns instead of fine detail on textures; I am not sure to call this ringing which was mentioned as current Daala primary fault) looks visually (dunno about metrics) very annoying even in compare to VP8 blurring or JPEG blocking. You can see such artifacts in full resolution samples:
  • Mercado dos Lavradores - textures on the ground (gravel and tiles);
  • Crepuscular Rays - grass and leaves;
  • Washington Monument - trees leaves.
Also while photos are good for still image comparison I would also include some CGI or anime samples to see it reaction for not so natural pictures with a lot of hard edges and gradients.
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Old 10th July 2014, 14:05   #51  |  Link
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More or less good but at some samples Daala artifacts (repeating not natural patterns instead of fine detail on textures; I am not sure to call this ringing which was mentioned as current Daala primary fault) looks visually (dunno about metrics) very annoying even in compare to VP8 blurring or JPEG blocking. You can see such artifacts in full resolution samples:
  • Mercado dos Lavradores - textures on the ground (gravel and tiles);
  • Crepuscular Rays - grass and leaves;
  • Washington Monument - trees leaves.
Also while photos are good for still image comparison I would also include some CGI or anime samples to see it reaction for not so natural pictures with a lot of hard edges and gradients.
I disagree. It produced much the same artifacts as x264, but it's more exaggerated. It looks a bit like sharpening, so in some places it's benevolent.
It also smudges things more on other parts.
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Old 10th July 2014, 18:57   #52  |  Link
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I believe the "ringing" in question may be the artificial noise that was mentioned in the slides just a few posts up. Such artificial noise was also mentioned in the video posted on the first page of this thread.

Last edited by Nintendo Maniac 64; 25th September 2014 at 06:39.
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Old 11th July 2014, 00:11   #53  |  Link
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Originally Posted by xooyoozoo View Post
Did they ever have a stated quality goal? If it was ~50% of HEVC's filesize for equal quality, then they have roughly 10 years to get something together.
Quote:
we're targeting 20% better than state of the art in 2015 source: http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/commen...n_free/can4eih
about the "ringing" artifacts they are trying to solve it here are my sources

https://wiki.xiph.org/DaalaMeeting20140603
https://wiki.xiph.org/DaalaMeeting20140624

you can get more previous weekly meetings here https://wiki.xiph.org/Daala
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Old 14th September 2014, 22:16   #54  |  Link
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Anyone can write their comments and conjectures on the parallel forum > Daala-vs-HEVC
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Old 25th September 2014, 00:09   #55  |  Link
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Image Painting
https://people.xiph.org/~jm/daala/paint_demo/
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Old 25th September 2014, 06:36   #56  |  Link
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Very cool. The old Daala lost badly to x264, x265, and vp9 when I tested it on still images in June. (Was going to post shots but forgot.) I'll make a build of this and test it tomorrow.
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Old 25th September 2014, 14:18   #57  |  Link
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Very cool. The old Daala lost badly to x264, x265, and vp9 when I tested it on still images in June. (Was going to post shots but forgot.) I'll make a build of this and test it tomorrow.
They still have a long way to go, and they know it (they want Daala to be better, not just competitive).
But the gap is definitely getting smaller.
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Old 27th September 2014, 02:48   #58  |  Link
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So, uh, it was just called to my attention that VLC supports decoding and encoding of Daala now (in git). The decoder and demuxer were committed on August 28th, the encoder was committed 5 days ago. It's disabled by default, but yeah.

It's been a long, long time since I've messed with compiling VLC (and only did so with a native Linux build), so I'll have to brush up, but I'd consider this fairly significant in general. It's almost certainly more comfortable than the example player in the Daala source code.

Last edited by qyot27; 27th September 2014 at 02:57.
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Old 27th September 2014, 23:11   #59  |  Link
Nintendo Maniac 64
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I'll make a build of this and test it tomorrow.
So uh, 2 days later...
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Old 29th September 2014, 14:49   #60  |  Link
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So uh, 2 days later...
Sorry, I have a real bad habit of doing that. I used it on linux, but futzed with mingw until I started working on another project and forgot all about it. I got it to build properly now, but it's dynamic, sorry about that. I have no idea how to make static builds.

daala jm branch 20140929 (commit 898f970, the most recent)

Last edited by foxyshadis; 27th November 2014 at 12:22.
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