madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[THX-UltraII]

Originally Posted by DragonQ

Only Chroma Upscaling should affect 1080p playback on a 1080p screen (because the chroma resolution will be 960x540).

Can you explain a little more about this? Don t understand what you mean exactly. Will I benefit a lot from a high quality chroma upscaling setting when playing 1080p blu-ray on a 1080p display device?

[iSunrise]

Originally Posted by THX-UltraII

Will there be noticable performance differences when using madVR and LAV video decoder between:

Geforce 560ti
Geforce 650
Geforce 650ti

That depends on your scaling settings, your source files and your target resolution. There´s no real answer for such a question. A Geforce GTX 660/Ti should handle almost everything apart from some very extreme scaling settings (very high Jinc settings on both luma/chroma). If that is too expensive, you should go with the Geforce 650/Ti that is on your list. Stay away from GDDR3 models if you can and buy cards with GDDR5 and at least a 128bit (650/Ti) or 192bit (660/Ti) memory interface, because madVR likes bandwidth.

Originally Posted by THX-UltraII

And is a fast CPU required anyway when playing only 1080p Blu-Ray content on a 1080p display device?

That is not an easy question to answer. Yes and no. madVR needs a fast (the faster, the better) GPU, mostly, like the ones you mentioned. If you mainly watch progressive content and you´re on a 1080p resolution, you should be fine. If you had written down a short list, we would have a better idea with what exactly you consider to be a "fast" CPU. Fast ist a very subjective word.

Originally Posted by THX-UltraII

And why does changing the settings Chroma Upscaling, Luma Upscaling and Luma Downscaling has influence on my CPU/GPU while I m playing 1080p Blu-Ray content on a 1080p display device?

Chroma needs to be upscaled/upsampled to the target resolution, because it´s stored at only half the resolution of the luma resolution with almost any content out there (Blu-Ray, DVD, etc.).

Luma upscaling settings should not make a difference if your source resolution = target resolution. Luma downscaling only is active if you´re target resolution is lower than your source resolution, which is not the case very often (e.x. only if you still have a 1680x1050 screen and you have 1080p content).

[Dodgexander]

Doesn't seem to work very well with interlaced 1080i 25fps TV recordings I have, it introduces a lot of judder. 1080p@ 25fps works great though as does 576i 25fps material.

On a second computer, I can't get it to work without bad judder with a 24fps movie either, but I am not sure if thats because the video card is so low end (Radeon HD5570) or not. What kind of requirements are needed?

Oh settings are all default on both computers btw.

[THX-UltraII]

thxz for your reply iSunrise. Let me ask the question more simple:

Right now I have a GTX560ti. Would switching to a GTX650ti be an upgrade or downgrade when madVR is the only purpose of the card (and keeping in mind that I ONLY play 1080p on a 1080p display device)?

And with bandwidth you mean Bandwidth in GB/s? Because the GTX650ti has 86.4 and the 560ti has 128. But the GFLOPs and Transistors of the 650ti are higher than the GFLOPs and Transistors of the 560ti.

[wanezhiling]

downgrade, for both game and madVR

[iSunrise]

Originally Posted by THX-UltraII

thxz for your reply iSunrise. Let me ask the question more simple:

Right now I have a GTX560ti. Would switching to a GTX650ti be an upgrade or downgrade when madVR is the only purpose of the card (and keeping in mind that I ONLY play 1080p on a 1080p display device)?

The 650Ti is like a cheap version of the 660Ti and thus more of a downgrade. So there´s no benefit at all. The 560Ti is a quite capable card with high bandwidth. It´s good for gaming and madVR, so just stay with it.

Originally Posted by THX-UltraII

And with bandwidth you mean Bandwidth in GB/s? Because the GTX650ti has 86.4 and the 560ti has 128. But the GFLOPs and Transistors of the 650ti are higher than the GFLOPs and Transistors of the 560ti.

Yes, exactly. The tiny bit higher throughput in GFLOPS is not that important if you only need to upscale chroma and not luma.

[wanezhiling]

Originally Posted by iSunrise

The 650Ti is like a cheap version of the 660Ti

650Ti is a cheap version of the 660, not 660Ti.

[THX-UltraII]

Originally Posted by iSunrise

The 650Ti is like a cheap version of the 660Ti and thus more of a downgrade. So there´s no benefit at all. The 560Ti is a quite capable card with high bandwidth. It´s good for gaming and madVR, so just stay with it.


Yes, exactly. The higher throughput in GFLOPS is not that important if you only need to upscale chroma and not luma. You´re card is good enough I would say.

I m having lipsync problems during movie playback. Could it be that I have a too high Chroma Upscaling setting that causes lip sync problems? (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=167229)

What is you recommendation for the Chroma Upscaling setting when only playing 1080p on a 1080p display?

[iSunrise]

Originally Posted by wanezhiling

650Ti is a cheap version of the 660, not 660Ti.

Yes, different ASIC. Typing mistake.

[iSunrise]

Originally Posted by THX-UltraII

I m having lipsync problems during movie playback. Could it be that I have a too high Chroma Upscaling setting that causes lip sync problems? (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=167229)

Not an easy answer for that. If you lower your chroma upscaling settings, does it go away? If you´re using EVR instead of madVR, is there a lip-sync problem? Take a look at your GPU usage (GPU-Z) and CPU usage (task manager), while you´re playing the files. If you´re CPU/GPU is not overloaded, it´s not a problem of your hardware performance, but more likely your settings/filters/playback chain or your source files.

Originally Posted by THX-UltraII

What is you recommendation for the Chroma Upscaling setting when only playing 1080p on a 1080p display?

There´s no real recommendation, because every algorithm comes with positives/negatives, you need to judge for yourself by testing them. The defaults should be fine.

[THX-UltraII]

Originally Posted by iSunrise

Not an easy answer for that. If you lower your chroma upscaling settings, does it go away? If you´re using EVR instead of madVR, is there a lip-sync problem? Take a look at your GPU usage (GPU-Z) and CPU usage (task manager), while you´re playing the files. If you´re CPU/GP is not overloaded, it´s not a problem of your hardware, rather your settings/filters/playback chain or your source files

I will try to lower the chroma upscaling setting and see if it goes away. If it does not, I will try to use EVR instead of madVR as output renderer.

The biggest problem is that the lip sync issue can only be seen after a very long playback time without pausing the movie (pausing the movie and play it again fixes the lip sync issue). So testing takes a lot of patience and time. I can only see it very clear after 2 hour movie playback or longer.

[Dodgexander]

Originally Posted by Dodgexander

Doesn't seem to work very well with interlaced 1080i 25fps TV recordings I have, it introduces a lot of judder. 1080p@ 25fps works great though as does 576i 25fps material.

On a second computer, I can't get it to work without bad judder with a 24fps movie either, but I am not sure if thats because the video card is so low end (Radeon HD5570) or not. What kind of requirements are needed?

Oh settings are all default on both computers btw.

Spoke to soon, there is also judder with 576i 25fps material also.

[huhn]

Originally Posted by THX-UltraII

I will try to lower the chroma upscaling setting and see if it goes away. If it does not, I will try to use EVR instead of madVR as output renderer.

The biggest problem is that the lip sync issue can only be seen after a very long playback time without pausing the movie (pausing the movie and play it again fixes the lip sync issue). So testing takes a lot of patience and time. I can only see it very clear after 2 hour movie playback or longer.

is the file maybe broken?

madvr drops/repeats frames so thinks like that should never happen. what did the madvr osd say how high is the clock deviation.
when this only happens with smooth motion make a bug report but i don't see the problem at madvr.

[AndreaMG]

Originally Posted by dansrfe

I'm very interested to hear nevcairiel's, madshi's, and everyone else's opinions on frame interpolation (SVP) vs frame blending (FRC). I know this is a subjective question but I'm only looking for opinions.

Frame interpolation does generate artifacts, the highest the settings, the highest the fluidity, the highest the artifacts are. I do not mind the artifacts, on the other hand I find content with less than 50 or 60 (real or interpolated) fps almost unwatchable... It's really a matter of taste. Give SVP a try. I cannot live without it

[adhara]

Hi,

I would avoid any misunderstanding about my knowledge on how the smooth motion functionality works.
Can someone please summarize the advantages of using this feature ?

I currently use JRMC with ROHQ (MadVR / LAV).
On JRMC, there is a similar functionality called "Videoclock".

Is that the same thing ?

With Videoclock, I can set the output frequence compared with the native video track frequency.

Thanks for the clarification.

[noee]

@adhara:
Read here about VideoClock in JRiver. Obviously not the same thing as madVR FRC, though potentially complimentary as is described above regarding Reclock. Simply put, madVR FRC "eliminates" judder caused by framerate/refresh rate mismatch. So, for example, on TVs/monitors without native 24p (?interpolate to 60Hz?), FRC smooths playback at 60Hz.

[adhara]

Originally Posted by noee

@adhara:
Read here about VideoClock in JRiver. Obviously not the same thing as madVR FRC, though potentially complimentary as is described above regarding Reclock. Simply put, madVR FRC "eliminates" judder caused by framerate/refresh rate mismatch. So, for example, on TVs/monitors without native 24p (?interpolate to 60Hz?), FRC smooths playback at 60Hz.

@noee

Thanks.
So you suggest to use both videoclock and madVR FRC ? Any contraindication in doing that ?
Here in France, the TV rate is 50Hz and mine (Pioneer Kuro) is fully 24 Hz compatible.
Is madVR FRC usefull in my own case ?

regards.


Other point:

About the table below:



I heard some guys saying that softcubic 80 gives a better result than Jinc 3 or Bicubic 75 or Lanczos for both chroma and image upscaling. Is that correct ?

This chart was posed more as a question than as a statement. It is fine for luma but unnecessary, maybe even inadvisable, overkill for chroma. Just stick with bucubic for all but the lowest.

See :http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/inde...4119#msg524119

To be honest, I don't see much differences between them except for GPU / CPU load
For now, I've set chroma and image up to softcubic80 (+AR) and image down to CatmullRom (AR+LL).

I only have a HD4000 (1350 MHz) as GPU. Not sure Jinc 3 will work fine w/o a dedicated graphic card.

[noee]

I'm currently testing scenarios with VideoClock on and off with FRC on, playing back 24p SD/HD material at 60Hz (my TV doesn't support native 24p). Right now, I don't see a difference with VideoClock on or off, it's working great and beats the heck out of my TV's "conversion" of 24Hz to 60Hz.

Fwiw, I prefer Jinc3 Chroma. For SD playback (on 1080 TV), I prefer Jinc3 w/AR image upscale. YMMV, trust your eyes, but of course, your hardware is likely a performance limitation.

I'm currently testing with AMD HD6570.

[Asmodian]

Originally Posted by adhara

I heard some guys saying that softcubic 80 gives a better result than Jinc 3 or Bicubic 75 or Lanczos for both chroma and image upscaling. Is that correct ?

I personally don't like softcubic more than what is suggested in that table. I don't really like a soft image and maybe I do not notice ringing quite as much as some people do, though with AR on ringing is pretty minimal. If you are on "low" you could give soft cubic a try and see if you like it better.

I really like the look of Jinc 3 but, yes, an HD4000 doesn't like Jinc.

[adhara]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

I personally don't like softcubic more than what is suggested in that table. I don't really like a soft image and maybe I do not notice ringing quite as much as some people do, though with AR on ringing is pretty minimal. If you are on "low" you could give soft cubic a try and see if you like it better.

I really like the look of Jinc 3 but, yes, an HD4000 doesn't like Jinc.

With my HD4000, I can use the "high" preset (bicubic / Lanczos) w/o any problem.
Is bicubic better than softcubic ? There is no much topic / forum where guys talk about the differences between MadVR algorithms.

I've got a low profile graphic card not yet installed on my passive HTPC (Radeon HD6450). Do you think this card will able me to run Jinc 3 ?

thx