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Old 8th September 2012, 18:24   #1  |  Link
zmejce
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Vdub filters equivalent to MCTemporalDenoise or a way to do it?

I have some HDTV caps that are noisy and also interlaced.

I'm wondering how to denoise them after deinterlacing with smart deinterlacer in vdub in one encoding process (I mean not to convert them to ex. x264 once for deinterlacing and then again for applying denoise filters)?

Probably it would be better if there's a way to apply mctemporaldenoise after applying vdub's smart deinterlace and then apply sharpen filter (maybe from vdub) and export the file to x264?

Last edited by zmejce; 8th September 2012 at 21:39.
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Old 8th September 2012, 23:24   #2  |  Link
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Why don't you use an Avisynth script for all this, then you won't need to find VirtualDub equivalents (which likely don't exist)?

There are way better Avisynth deinterlacers than the VirtualDub Smart Deinterlacer, and I say that as the author of the latter, so you can trust me.
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Old 9th September 2012, 00:50   #3  |  Link
zmejce
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can you tell me more about it?

btw I'm looking for a sharp deinterlacer (probably you already know that it should deinterlace 1080 blu-ray movies, 1080i hdtv captures, pal-ntsc dvd's)

For windows, smart deinterlacer is sharpest deintelacer I've found so far.

Last edited by zmejce; 9th September 2012 at 00:52.
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Old 9th September 2012, 02:13   #4  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zmejce View Post
btw I'm looking for a sharp deinterlacer
What exactly do you mean by "sharp"? I'm not being pedantic. Your terminology generally, judging by your other posts, does not seem to follow well-established precedent. You could mean, for example, high contrast, which is the usual meaning. Or you could mean lots of ringing on the edges. Or you could mean the best retention of the original resolution. Or the best rendering of diagonals in interpolated areas. Etc. So which is it?

Sharpness is something you get from a sharpener. Typically, that is not the job of a deinterlacer, although a few work with kernels that may have sharpening as a side effect, e.g., KernelDeint.

Quote:
(probably you already know that it should deinterlace 1080 blu-ray movies, 1080i hdtv captures, pal-ntsc dvd's)
And you should know that not all of those will necessarily *require* deinterlacing. We've been through this in another thread. So are you asking for recommendations for IVTC, deblending, etc., as well?

Look, a deinterlacer doesn't care where the video came from, or what it's size is. It's the nature of the *content* of the video that matters. Is it pure video sampled at the field rate, is it progressive sampled at the frame rate, is it pulled down with telecine, is it field-blended? These are the things that matter, not whether it came from a bluray, or it came from an OTA capture, or it came from a DVD. And the former are not correlated with the latter, so for example, you can have any of the video types I listed first on a bluray, or on a capture, or on a DVD.

You also may be confusing "combing" with interlacing. Combing is just the herringbone mouse-teeth pattern that you can see in some video content. But that can be caused by things other than pure interlacing. You have to know what is going on with the video. You can't just see combing and decide that a deinterlacer is needed. You may instead need IVTC, deblending, field shift, etc.

You need to start understanding these things to do good work in video.

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For windows, smart deinterlacer is sharpest deintelacer I've found so far.
I'm happy that you like it but arguably the only thing it does half-way decently is preservation of static areas using "motion" map denoising, albeit with hard thresholds for "motion" detection. (Hard thresholds are a mixed bag: they can make static areas look really good, but they can also introduce some ugly artifacts). But yadif, nnedi, qtgmc, and others do things way better. Have you tried any of them? The technology has advanced leaps and bounds since Smart Deinterlace was written, and that technology is available in these Avisynth filters. When I wrote Smart I had a 486 processor. Think about it! Proper motion compensation for video was unthinkable.

I'm going to create a blind test for you and post it here. I'll give you two deinterlacings of the same interlaced source, one from Smart and one from a good Avisynth filter. You will choose the best and then I'll reveal which is which. Like a Coke-Pepsi challenge! Or, if you prefer, post a link to a sample of one of your unprocessed captures and I'll work with that. (Cut with DGSplit, upload to mediafire.com, post the link here.)

Last edited by Guest; 9th September 2012 at 03:00.
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Old 9th September 2012, 02:46   #5  |  Link
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Your Pepsi challenge. Neither is perfect, but it's not much of a contest in my view. (Sorry not exactly the same frame but it doesn't matter.)
Attached Images
  

Last edited by Guest; 9th September 2012 at 02:56.
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Old 9th September 2012, 03:56   #6  |  Link
zmejce
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The screen from above looks better.

Lets say that I want to deinterlace and clean a 1080i hdtv capture.

The image is sometimes blocky, and even when deinterlaced, motion parts look like fading a bit (de-blending!?). If it's not deinterlaced, then it has lines moving ex. face or body in motion.

I've tried Yadif which is default on newer versions on vdub (all settings default, just loaded the deinterlace filter). It does the job very nicely on everything and it's very similar to smart deinterlacer, just, I think (I havent done png to png tests, just from eye) that when there are motion parts in videos, there's more fading (or blending!?).

I think of blending as smoothening the 2 frames into 1, which makes a bigger fading effect-so the image isn't sharp.

As i wrote, Yadif is pretty good, smart deinterlacer too. I'm introduced (but I don't know well about it) to KernDeint from GKnot which isn't being developed now.

What I think about probably the best/sharp deinterlacer, is from screenshots I have seen for compressor 4 deinterlace addon. Compressor 4 is pack of filters/plugins for apple's final cut (which is just for os x, hence I had wrote "for windows").

The screenshots I have seen, on the motion parts have no fading effect at all.
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Old 9th September 2012, 13:57   #7  |  Link
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Congratulations, you chose QTGMC in preference to Smart Deinterlace!

Please post a link to a sample that can be used to reproduce your blending issue with yadif, and also to allow us to continue our discussion with a common source sample.

When you get blends like that it's usually because the source is field-blended, in which case simple deinterlacing is not the preferred processing. I've tried to explain this to you several times. Have you tried to determine whether your source is field-blended?

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The screenshots I have seen, on the motion parts have no fading effect at all.
Sure, because the source was NOT field-blended. Any decent deinterlacer would also not produce blending (unless you told it too via its parameters!). But we can't verify that because we don't have the unprocessed source sample. This is why it is so important for you to provide an unprocessed source sample that we can use to continue the discussion. If you don't do that I'm going to lose interest very quickly.

Last edited by Guest; 9th September 2012 at 14:19.
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Old 12th September 2012, 10:37   #8  |  Link
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img 1 yadif

img 2 yadif
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Old 12th September 2012, 10:46   #9  |  Link
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smart deint 1

smart deint 2
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Old 12th September 2012, 10:48   #10  |  Link
zmejce
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and for the original source screenshots, it's weird but the ati driver automatically has set deinterlacing methods which cant be turned off.

so i dont know how to take them.
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Old 12th September 2012, 12:40   #11  |  Link
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A source sample means actual video before any deinterlacing was applied, not screenshots of your deinterlaced result! How can I reproduce what you did with those screenshots?

Looking at your screenshots, I don't see the blending you mentioned, so why did you post them? What are you pointing out?

Last edited by Guest; 12th September 2012 at 12:43.
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Old 12th September 2012, 13:02   #12  |  Link
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Well I didnt said that yadif doesnt does the job,

Just asked how to deinterlace a video before applying mctemporaldenoise?

Yadif or better (leakKerndeint?)?

& how to sharpen the image after applying deinterlace & denoise filters?

What are the recommended values (not for denoise-i'll try medium & high preset) for leakkerndeint and sharpen (for sharpen I'll probably use mctemporaldenoise too, just i dont know how to do it-its not documented well)?

Last edited by zmejce; 18th September 2012 at 21:46.
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Old 24th September 2012, 00:44   #13  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zmejce View Post
Well I didnt said that yadif doesnt does the job,
You said there was blending. I asked you to point it out as I didn't see it. You evaded an answer.

Quote:
Just asked how to deinterlace a video before applying mctemporaldenoise?
Simple. Apply a deinterlacer. Or use IVTC if the video is telecined. Or use a deblender if it is field-blended. I could help you choose the right one, but you refuse to provide a source sample. Straight up: why won't you?

Quote:
Yadif or better (leakKerndeint?)?
Use what you like better.

Quote:
& how to sharpen the image after applying deinterlace & denoise filters?
Simple. Apply a sharpening filter of your choice.

Quote:
What are the recommended values (not for denoise-i'll try medium & high preset) for leakkerndeint and sharpen
Recommended for what kind of source material? If in doubt, try the defaults. If that isn't good for you try to tweak the parameters. You don't seem to grok the idea that everything depends on your source video and there is no single recipe. You never post a video sample too. I suppose you are scared of another rule 6 violation. Or can't you figure out how to upload?

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(for sharpen I'll probably use mctemporaldenoise too
Sure, use a denoiser as a sharpener, that sounds brilliant.

Quote:
just i dont know how to do it-its not documented well)?
You have to read documentation to get anything out of it. But I'll bite, what are the document shortcomings that you see?

Last edited by Guest; 24th September 2012 at 00:49.
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