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Old 9th November 2020, 10:22   #60641  |  Link
chros
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anime Viewer View Post
Recently an Intel update ran that I think is responsible for breaking the Optimus (Nvidia+Intel selection for which video card to use with which program) in Windows 10.
...
I'm hoping there is still a way to get MPC and MadVR to play my videos using my Nvidia Geforce GTX 680M instead of the much weaker Intel HD graphics 4000...
I have a similar old MSI rig (intel HD4000 + nvidia 650m) around with a dying Win8.1, so I thougth I'll put Win10 (1607 or preferably 1809) on it, but I was hesitant about driver issues.
Can you specify the following?
- which Win10 version do you use
- can you name or link the good driver versions for all the hardware components?

Thanks
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Old 9th November 2020, 13:31   #60642  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VBB View Post
HDR to SDR tone-mapping is really meant for projectors.
It was designed and optimised for projectors, but really it works quite well on any SDR display (especially ones that can go higher than 100 nits without losing contrast), and the resulting picture is better than a 1080 Blu-ray.
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Old 9th November 2020, 14:14   #60643  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
It was designed and optimised for projectors, but really it works quite well on any SDR display (especially ones that can go higher than 100 nits without losing contrast), and the resulting picture is better than a 1080 Blu-ray.
Just curious.. what would make it better than straight sdr? Making use of more nits for contrast and a bit of extra color gamut coverage (like some pc monitors)? This usage is very interesting.. kind of a middle ground between sdr and true hdr

Last edited by flaviowolff; 9th November 2020 at 14:18.
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Old 9th November 2020, 14:28   #60644  |  Link
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Well, you can't do much about it: e. g. ABL kicks in with Oled around 140 nits (with full white, depending on the model), plasmas were even worse in this.
So 140 vs e.g 700 is a huge difference. I haven't seen any HDR version of a given video that was worse then the SDR version.
On an SDR display it can result in sharper image but at that time it's better to buy an HDR capable TV than fool around with SDR convertion.

And since we are here, I don't understand projector users today, there is only 1 advantage and that is size (altough a 77 inch TV is quite big) but they have multiple disadvantages compared to e.g. an Oled.
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Old 9th November 2020, 14:33   #60645  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chros View Post
Well, you can't do much about it: e. g. ABL kicks in with Oled around 140 nits (with full white, depending on the model), plasmas were even worse in this.
So 140 vs e.g 700 is a huge difference. I haven't seen any HDR version of a given video that was worse then the SDR version.
On an SDR display it can result in sharper image but at that time it's better to buy an HDR capable TV than fool around with SDR convertion.

And since we are here, I don't understand projector users today, there is only 1 advantage and that is size (altough a 77 inch TV is quite big) but they have multiple disadvantages compared to e.g. an Oled.
Me neither.. maybe they are better at motion handling?
The cool factor is really there, tho.
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Old 9th November 2020, 14:48   #60646  |  Link
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madVR crashing / freezing PC / troubleshooting needed

Basically, the scenario described here happens to me, when playing back any 4K HDR file, the video plays back until it freezes / whole PC is frozen, not even CTRL-ALT-DEL work, only a hard-reset does the job

MadVR is set to tonemap using pixel shaders


Player used : PotPlayer
Also tried MPC-HC - same

Driver used for GPU : latest NVIDIA 457.09
Used DDU to uninstall (in safe mode) - did nothing to help

My actual madVR configured is set to high-software decoding ("none HW decoders selected)
Attached some screenshots for convenience.

Everything worked perfectly until a few days ago, when this suddenly happened. I think it coincided with upgrading to 457.09
I've reverted back to 442.74 but it happens all the same.

Any suggestions / courses of action on how to solve, this, please?
It's especially annoying

Extra info : Thought it's related to nVidia Drivers - also opened a similar query on this thread
But seems to appears to have to do with madVR, I've found it more reasonsable to ask here as well.

I've tested same 4K HDR files on VLC and nothing freezes there.
I would assume using a different renderer than madVR on PotPlayer would offer the same result, but i'm sworn on madVR, there is no alternative, we all know that.

Later Edit :

Tested also LAV Video Decoder with D3D11 and getting same result both on passthrough as well as HDR by pixel shaders - crashes / freezes



Thank you for your time & hopefully someone can help out with this
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Last edited by webbo; 9th November 2020 at 16:59.
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Old 9th November 2020, 15:02   #60647  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flaviowolff View Post
Just curious.. what would make it better than straight sdr?
If your SDR display is capable of higher peak brightness than 100 nits without losing contrast (meaning local-dimming LCDs, or self-emissive displays), then you can get a bigger dynamic range than with the SDR version of the same content.
Of course with plasmas and OLED there's ABL, but you still get a bit better range than with 100 nits max.
If your display has wider gamut than Bt.709 you can get better colours too but I think the dynamic range is more interesting.
Now of course I don't mean this is a serious alternative to buying a HDR display, but if you still have a high quality SDR display and don't want to/can't change yet, it's useful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chros View Post
And since we are here, I don't understand projector users today, there is only 1 advantage and that is size (altough a 77 inch TV is quite big) but they have multiple disadvantages compared to e.g. an Oled.
I think it's mostly size, you can get even bigger than 77 inch, but also maybe for practical reasons: if you don't have a lot of space or a dedicated room, you can install a motorized screen and have a massive size projection for movies without using that wall space all the time for a massive TV.
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Last edited by el Filou; 9th November 2020 at 15:08.
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Old 9th November 2020, 16:31   #60648  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
If your SDR display is capable of higher peak brightness than 100 nits without losing contrast (meaning local-dimming LCDs, or self-emissive displays), then you can get a bigger dynamic range than with the SDR version of the same content.
My AOC 24G2 pc monitor specs report 250 nits.. reviewers measured about 300. But it doesn't fit your description, as it's not local dimming. In this case, is it better with standard sdr content?

I know I can just test it and see what I like the most, but I like hearing opinions from the more experienced folks.

Thanks
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Old 9th November 2020, 21:07   #60649  |  Link
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The problem with simply turning up the brightness all the way on a standard IPS LCD is that the black level will increase at the same time. This keeps the dynamic range the same, or even worse, so it ends up not looking any better than an SDR image with the peak white set to 100-160 nits. The conversion will end up losing shadow detail in a gray mush as it preserves a little more highlight detail.

The extra brightness does not increase the dynamic range so it is better to use brightness to adjust for ambient light rather then getting more brightness for "HDR".
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Old 9th November 2020, 23:57   #60650  |  Link
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that's how flat screens work in general zone don't really fix this.
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Old 10th November 2020, 06:39   #60651  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkauff View Post
If you do a search in this thread, you'll find lots of posts about Optimus (mostly problems).

The Nvidia Control Panel is now a free download in the Microsoft Store. Try installing that way.
I still had Nvidia Control Panel in the Windows Control Panel, but I tried downloading it from the Microsoft Store like you suggested. Unfortunately as soon as I launched it is said it wasn't compatible. I'm thinking its not detecting the Nvidia GPU even though its in device manager, and the driver information there doesn't report any problems and says its running.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chros View Post
I have a similar old MSI rig (intel HD4000 + nvidia 650m) around with a dying Win8.1, so I thougth I'll put Win10 (1607 or preferably 1809) on it, but I was hesitant about driver issues.
Can you specify the following?
- which Win10 version do you use
- can you name or link the good driver versions for all the hardware components?

Thanks
I'm not sure what version I was running up to Saturday, but on Saturday while troubleshooting this issue I updated to version 20H2 of Windows 10. I don't know that the Windows 10 itself is the issue. I think it was most likely the Intel driver update for the HD 4000 that broke things. Prior to Saturday I hadn't been able to update my Windows version because of some stupid Microsoft message about UEFI not being compatible with one of the Windows updates (encountered that message more than a year ago). I got around it by changing settings in my BIOS and to turn off UEFI and use BIOS instead, and booting and updating to the newest Windows version from a flash drive. I don't know what driver version I was using prior to the current ones, but I can tell you what I'm currently running and thus what you might want to avoid. The current HD4000 driver is reporting as 10.18.10.5161 in device manager. The current Nvidia driver is reporting as 25.21.14.2531 in device manager.
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Old 10th November 2020, 16:30   #60652  |  Link
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I asked this on another forum and I hope someone here maybe knows.

I got my Asus 3090 Strix GPU, upgraded from a 1080 ti. I have 2 questions:

Since 10 bit can be enabled on the Nvidia Control Panel, should I also enable 10 bit for my LG E9 and JVC NX7 in madVR properties for native display bitdepth? Or should I stay at 8 bit across the board?

I only watch native 1080p and 4K blu ray content. I now have chroma upscaling cranked up to NGU very high quality. Is there a general consensus of which is better between Sharp or Anti Alias, or is it more of a personal preference?
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Old 10th November 2020, 20:19   #60653  |  Link
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madshi posted a new test build over at AVS: https://www.avsforum.com/threads/imp.../post-60235595

In other news, hell just froze over...
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Old 10th November 2020, 20:24   #60654  |  Link
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10 bit depends on what mode you use for the HDMI port. When using PC mode use 8 bit for LG OLEDs but when in any other mode 10 bit is probably a good option.

I use PC mode to preserve full chroma resolution, madVR has great chroma scaling, but these TVs have worse banding in PC mode and everything before 2020 has poor HDR in PC mode. If you only watch video on it leaving it in HDMI mode and sending it 10 bit is a reasonable option.

Sharp v.s. AA is personal preference. I suggest comparing for yourself with a variety of content. Sharp is definitely nice and sharp but it can seem unnatural with some content while AA isn't as striking but always looks natural.
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Old 10th November 2020, 23:21   #60655  |  Link
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these TVs have worse banding in PC mode and everything before 2020 has poor HDR in PC mode.
Are we talking just LG here? Cos now I want to check to make sure my Panny HDR isn't somehow worse off in 4:4:4.
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Old 10th November 2020, 23:45   #60656  |  Link
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We only have data from LG OLED PC users. If you have a Panasonic OLED (or any other brand), please share your findings.
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Old 11th November 2020, 00:09   #60657  |  Link
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Panasonic Oled should be "better" than LG, but it can't do judder free 23p vai PC mode.
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Old 11th November 2020, 00:09   #60658  |  Link
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Haven't noticed any HDR issues with Puredirect enabled which gives me 4:4:4, just ran a 10% grey screen and enabled/disabled Puredirect and saw zero difference.

Just wondering, other OLED users.. how is your black calibration? Do you get 17 or 18 flashing with a test pattern? I think without a proper calibration I'm not going to get it but
I might not want it to given OLED issues near black anyway. I've been able to scale up 2.5 IRE a little to get 18 just barely showing up on the panel.

Last edited by ryrynz; 11th November 2020 at 00:37.
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Old 11th November 2020, 00:58   #60659  |  Link
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i can get it flashing on 17 but this elevates my black slightly so my black bars are ever so slightly grey in a pitch black room so I usually run mine 19 and above flashing.
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Old 11th November 2020, 01:16   #60660  |  Link
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madshi posted a new test build over at AVS: https://www.avsforum.com/threads/imp.../post-60235595

In other news, hell just froze over...
i'm seeing an improvement in general picture dynamics with this, everything just seems to have a little more pop in HDR
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