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Old 3rd September 2014, 23:19   #1581  |  Link
mparade
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Almost, but not exactly. To process a hybrid source you have to instruct the decoder to honor pulldown flags or to make adjustments to assure the framerate is correct.
Does BD-RB automatically instruct the decoder after performing the MPEG-2 extended scanning routine or do I have to make some evaluation on the material like on a "hard telecined" source and then instruct the program through the hiddenopt ASSUME_HYBRID? As far as I remember, the hybrid sources are marked with "***" after the fps mark in the stream tab and "*" marks the soft telecine pulldown material, although I have never seen "*" so far inspite that I am working with "a lot of" 3:2 pulldown sources.

Thank you very much for your help in advance!
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Old 4th September 2014, 01:45   #1582  |  Link
jdobbs
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Does BD-RB automatically instruct the decoder after performing the MPEG-2 extended scanning routine or do I have to make some evaluation on the material like on a "hard telecined" source and then instruct the program through the hiddenopt ASSUME_HYBRID? As far as I remember, the hybrid sources are marked with "***" after the fps mark in the stream tab and "*" marks the soft telecine pulldown material, although I have never seen "*" so far inspite that I am working with "a lot of" 3:2 pulldown sources.

Thank you very much for your help in advance!
BD-RB does it automatically. As for "hard telecined" -- BD-RB has no way of know that. In that case you have to force telcining by using IVTC_480i.

The "*" markings in the streams list are based on a very short scan of the beginning of the file... the true nature of the disc is known only after the full MPEG-2 scan that happens during processing.
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Old 4th September 2014, 20:09   #1583  |  Link
mparade
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x264 preset test1 - PSNR values

If someone was ever interested in.
Attached Files
File Type: zip x264 preset test1 - PSNR values.zip (7.0 KB, 47 views)
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Old 6th September 2014, 19:25   #1584  |  Link
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Suggestion for 1-pass crf prediction mode:
- Generate and keep the --stats file of the --crf pass.
- If the file becomes oversized: Run --pass 2 automatically with the stats from pass 1 and the target bitrate.

Oversizing (or heavy undersizing) using BD-RBs prediction mode is seldom, but it happens maybe in 1 of 10...20 cases.
I tried above method. It seems to work very well without any noticeable quality loss due to the bitrate correction for pass 2. I think it's more reliable than repeating the encode with an educated guess for a new --crf.
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Old 6th September 2014, 22:19   #1585  |  Link
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Suggestion for 1-pass crf prediction mode:
- Generate and keep the --stats file of the --crf pass.
- If the file becomes oversized: Run --pass 2 automatically with the stats from pass 1 and the target bitrate.

Oversizing (or heavy undersizing) using BD-RBs prediction mode is seldom, but it happens maybe in 1 of 10...20 cases.
I tried above method. It seems to work very well without any noticeable quality loss due to the bitrate correction for pass 2. I think it's more reliable than repeating the encode with an educated guess for a new --crf.
I'll look at it.
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Old 25th September 2014, 01:58   #1586  |  Link
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I'm testing with the movie "Say Anything" (1989)..and I'm noticing that with IVTC_SELECTION=1 & SD_PROGRESSIVE=1 set, some of the interlaced extras; Trailers and TV Spots; aren't being rerendered correct because SD_PROGRESSIVE=1 is still set even though IVTC_SELECTION=1 is set but isn't chosen with Right Click. Would you be willing to join IVTC_SELECTION=1 & SD_PROGRESSIVE=1 together? Or, perhaps, make a new option? The 2 options function well for the Deleted/Extended Scenes. I've noticed this for some other BDs as well, like Footloose. Thanks.

I'm using 49.01.
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Last edited by AmigaFuture; 25th September 2014 at 04:39.
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Old 10th October 2014, 23:03   #1587  |  Link
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2. "Quick-Play" navigation.
When the last menu item is highlighted I'd like to be able to menu down at that point having it wrap back around to the top menu item. Presently it doesn't wrap around. You have to menu up one at a time to get back to the top again.

3. Import/Quick-Play Settings option "Attempt to find original background for BD import/Quick-Play".
I'd love to use the Import/Quick-Play Settings option "Attempt to find original background for BD import/Quick-Play" with several of my titles rather than going with a custom menu background as when testing it utilizes the menu video background from the original disc which is way cool. The only problem is the video doesn't repeat "x" number of times like the original disc does (usually set to play repeatedly several hundred times as seen within BDedit when checking out the retail version of a given disc), so once the video plays once which often fades to black at the end you are then looking at the menu selection items from that point forward against a stark black screen.
Thought I'd chime back in on a couple of enhancement requests I had made a while back. Would really love to see the above two items implemented. I did try to figure out if there was a way I could implement these items myself after the fact by modifying the files in question within the BD folder structure created by BD Rebuilder. No luck there. That being said, I do have an interim solution as far as having the video menu background play more than once, so I thought I'd share what I've been doing. In my case I'm creating "Quick-Play" backups of the TV shows that I own on Blu-ray, then burning to BD-50. Prior to burning to disc I'll determine how much room is going to be left on the disc. I then take a copy of the m2ts file used for the video menu background and join multiple copies of the file together using multiAVCHD, as many as would fit per the remaining space that would be left on the disc with a little breathing room to spare, name the resulting file accordingly and overwrite the original file within my build, then importing the build using BD Rebuilder all over again which in turn accounts for the longer running time of the updated m2ts file. Done deal. End result, I go from a 47 second video menu background for example that plays one time stopping on the last frame (...whatever that may be) to a video menu background that seamlessly loops over and over again (...well, that appears to be looping anyway) for 30 minutes instead just as the retail version of the given disc would do. Of course the retail version of the disc is just having that 47 second video repeat "x" number of times per the particular playlist, usually several hundred times. Short of figuring out how to update the particular playlist myself if that's even possible I've been able to accomplish the same end result while at the same time putting the unused space on my BD-50 to good use. Gotta love it!

Last edited by Lowpro; 11th October 2014 at 19:49.
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Old 11th October 2014, 03:11   #1588  |  Link
Audiophile1178
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Jdobbs,

Would it be possible to create a feature in BD Rebuilder that would allow the user to tell BD Rebuilder to NOT encode certain VID files?
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Old 12th October 2014, 04:23   #1589  |  Link
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Jdobbs,

Would it be possible to create a feature in BD Rebuilder that would allow the user to tell BD Rebuilder to NOT encode certain VID files?
Do you mean for it to remove those items or to copy that vid untouched?

The former is already present as a hidden option, the later I would like to see as well.
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Old 12th October 2014, 05:18   #1590  |  Link
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I could do that... but there's all kinds of caveats when you allow that kind of thing. A couple that come immediately to mind: 1. Output size can't be guaranteed -- because the parts deselected might violate the size by themselves, or may not leave enough space for what's left. 2. Quality of those actually reencoded can't be guaranteed -- because they get the limited space left over after the deselected parts use their space.
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Old 12th October 2014, 18:30   #1591  |  Link
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OK, this is going to be a little lengthy but it should help to understand some of the reasons for this request.

BD Rebuilder is a GREAT program but I FEEL (note that I'm stating my opinion) that it lacks in certain areas when one tries to use CRF values on bonus content and 2-pass on main titles. This would occur in areas such as:

1. Seamless Branching
2. Series discs
3. Films that have bonus content larger than the main title. This is rare but has occurred before.

In all of the above scenarios, BD Rebuilder just can't do these films properly and causes the user to do hours of manual encoding and BDedit manipulation or just accept it and possibly get sub par results on the main title with doing 2-pass on entire disc. I'm by no means a programmer but would LOVE to have this option enabled for the above reasons listed.

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To copy that vid untouched?
That is what I meant. It would be great to mark certain VID's so that they don't get encoded and just processed through as if we had the FORCE_NOENCODE=0 enabled only on those VID's.

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Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
I could do that... but there's all kinds of caveats when you allow that kind of thing. A couple that come immediately to mind: 1. Output size can't be guaranteed -- because the parts deselected might violate the size by themselves, or may not leave enough space for what's left. 2. Quality of those actually reencoded can't be guaranteed -- because they get the limited space left over after the deselected parts use their space.
I can DEFINITELY see your point and realized that when I asked the question that it can cause novices some problems which is why it would definitely be a hidden option as in all the advanced/experimental options that are available in the hidden options so that it doesn't add complications for the novice user. I'm sure that you must know that many users use this great program that you created in many ways and not just for shrinking movies down to BD25 BD-R's which, if memory serves me correctly, is what you want BD Rebuilder to be. The one stop solution for ALL encoding.

Regarding the scenarios below, many of them would be bigger than a BD25 so the option FORCE_ENCODE=1 would be enabled BUT should be overwritten/ignored when BD Rebuilder comes across a VID flagged with No Encode.

Here are some scenarios that might make this option useful:

1. Somebody wants to do a full backup of a disc and use CRF values ONLY on the extras. This would allow the user to leave the main title untouched to reduce the overall size of the disc but still have the original video quality of the movie while having the extras reduced. When doing this the user would have their output setup as a BD50 but the FORCE_ENCODE=1 would be enabled for the extras to be encoded but not the main title since it was marked with the No Encode option. This would be useful for users that have a Server, HTPC, etc. and playback their material on programs such as XBMC to help conserve space while still having the original picture quality of the main film with the entire disc still intact. This would mean that the disc would most likely be bigger than a BD25 but much smaller than the original BD50 which can be quite useful for all the new titles coming out that seem to contain all 1080p video which can take up quite a big of space. By using CRF values on the extras of those titles I've seen reductions of 80% on those videos while still being quite presentable. This could save the user several GB's or even TB's of data.

2. This would work on all series and seamless branching titles. First, mark the main title/s with no encode and perform a CRF encode on all other VID's. This would, most likely, result in an output bigger than a BD25 disc, in which, the user would have their output setup as a BD50 but the FORCE_ENCODE=1 enabled for the extras to be encoded but not the main title since they were marked with No Encode. This first step shouldn't take too long to perform. Second, take the output of the first step and change BD Rebuilder to output a size of a BD25. Then, mark all the already encoded extras from the first part to No Encode and just encode the main title/s using 2-pass down to a BD25 for your final output. This would allow the highest quality available for the main title/s while still giving the extras a presentable quality. A user could use your wonderful batch processing feature to do many titles at once to help simplify the process.

3. I'm sure there are other scenarios but this is all that I can think of at the moment.


As stated before, I know that I and I'd imagine others would greatly appreciate an implementation of a feature such as this. I'm currently doing some series discs at the moment and would be able to test it out if you like.


As always, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME!
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Old 12th October 2014, 18:43   #1592  |  Link
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possibly get sub par results on the main title with doing 2-pass
That's pretty much the opposite of reality. You will almost always get better results with 2-pass encoding than any other method. The only real advantage of CRF is the time savings related to a single pass. 2-pass will definitely give you better allocation of available bandwidth.

With that said, I'll look at it.
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Old 12th October 2014, 19:08   #1593  |  Link
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Personally, I would prefer a method where the user can mark in the Stream Tab which files are to be classified as extras. These are then encoded with the user specified CRF (this feature is already available now). The feature is likely to remain untouched if Quick_CRF is set large enough, say 30. Otherwise it might get recoded fast with slight size reduction and no real quality loss.
But this is only my view, of course.
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Old 12th October 2014, 19:16   #1594  |  Link
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The reason I like the idea is I've found discs that are BD50, but once you strip excessive amounts of lossless non-English audio tracks, trailers, etc., the discs are just a little bit over BD25 sized.
My preference in those cases is to keep the movie untouched, but only re-encoded the extras with whatever it takes to fit it in the space left over. Less encoding is needed, perfect quality for the main title, less for the bits that aren't as important.

Last edited by DoctorM; 12th October 2014 at 19:18.
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Old 12th October 2014, 19:31   #1595  |  Link
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@DoctorM
ok, I see your point. My concern is just if the feature is close to 25MB the extra(s) may get squashed to a non-watchable mash.
(just a quick thought....)
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Old 12th October 2014, 19:54   #1596  |  Link
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With that said, I'll look at it.
Thank you very much!

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Originally Posted by Sharc View Post
Personally, I would prefer a method where the user can mark in the Stream Tab which files are to be classified as extras. These are then encoded with the user specified CRF (this feature is already available now). The feature is likely to remain untouched if Quick_CRF is set large enough, say 30. Otherwise it might get recoded fast with slight size reduction and no real quality loss.
But this is only my view, of course.
I believe that it would be easier for Jdobbs to program and the user if the opposite was applied. The user marked which file was the main title. Usually, there's only 1 file or a handful of files that would need to be marked as a main title and all else would automatically get considered as bonus. If you think about it, when you have a film that has 40, 100, or possibly more bonus VID's it would be easier for the user to just mark which file/s is the main title rather than going through and marking all 40, 100, or more as the bonus content. After that, BD Rebuilder would automatically know that all the other files are bonus content that should be encoded using whatever CRF value was given but, in reality, either way would get the job done.

Last edited by Audiophile1178; 12th October 2014 at 20:00.
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Old 12th October 2014, 20:02   #1597  |  Link
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@DoctorM
ok, I see your point. My concern is just if the feature is close to 25MB the extra(s) may get squashed to a non-watchable mash.
(just a quick thought....)
I'm just thinking back to old DVD Shrink. You could mark any video as compress/blank/copy untouched.

How badly they got compressed when you manually tweaked it was on you, but it was useful.
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Old 12th October 2014, 20:36   #1598  |  Link
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I'm just thinking back to old DVD Shrink. You could mark any video as compress/blank/copy untouched.

How badly they got compressed when you manually tweaked it was on you, but it was useful.
Yes, DVD-Shrink, nice to remember ....
One may of course delegate the responsibility of the tweaks to the user. In practice however if a BD-RB encode turns out to be poor the question or complaint will likely end up on the author's desk, I am afraid
Anyway, there are options, but the decision is with jdobbs.
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Old 12th October 2014, 22:11   #1599  |  Link
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Thought I'd chime back in on a couple of enhancement requests I had made a while back. Would really love to see the above two items implemented. I did try to figure out if there was a way I could implement these items myself after the fact by modifying the files in question within the BD folder structure created by BD Rebuilder. No luck there. That being said, I do have an interim solution as far as having the video menu background play more than once, so I thought I'd share what I've been doing. In my case I'm creating "Quick-Play" backups of the TV shows that I own on Blu-ray, then burning to BD-50. Prior to burning to disc I'll determine how much room is going to be left on the disc. I then take a copy of the m2ts file used for the video menu background and join multiple copies of the file together using multiAVCHD, as many as would fit per the remaining space that would be left on the disc with a little breathing room to spare, name the resulting file accordingly and overwrite the original file within my build, then importing the build using BD Rebuilder all over again which in turn accounts for the longer running time of the updated m2ts file. Done deal. End result, I go from a 47 second video menu background for example that plays one time stopping on the last frame (...whatever that may be) to a video menu background that seamlessly loops over and over again (...well, that appears to be looping anyway) for 30 minutes instead just as the retail version of the given disc would do. Of course the retail version of the disc is just having that 47 second video repeat "x" number of times per the particular playlist, usually several hundred times. Short of figuring out how to update the particular playlist myself if that's even possible I've been able to accomplish the same end result while at the same time putting the unused space on my BD-50 to good use. Gotta love it!
Ok. I added a hidden item called MENU_ROLLOVER that does the first one. I may even make it the default for the next release, we'll see. I'll look at the second request and see how hard it'll be to implement. I've been meaning to do it, but just haven't gotten around to it.
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Old 13th October 2014, 01:48   #1600  |  Link
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Ok. I added a hidden item called MENU_ROLLOVER that does the first one. I may even make it the default for the next release, we'll see. I'll look at the second request and see how hard it'll be to implement. I've been meaning to do it, but just haven't gotten around to it.
Thank you!

I too would like to 'Third' the suggestion about keeping the main title untouched and allowing BDRB to encode all the rest
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