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Old 4th September 2019, 19:06   #1801  |  Link
marcomsousa
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Originally Posted by NikosD View Post
I think there are no HW encoders or decoders for AV1 yet.
Realtek have one HW decoder for av1 - https://www.realtek.com/en/press-roo...-cas-functions

Android 10 is released with the support for Opus audio support and AV1 video codec support- https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...id-10-Released

Av1 August news - https://www.singhkays.com/blog/av1-e...e-august-2019/
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Old 4th September 2019, 19:55   #1802  |  Link
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Originally Posted by marcomsousa View Post
Realtek have one HW decoder for av1 - https://www.realtek.com/en/press-roo...-cas-functions
Right!
I had something in mind that I had recently read, so I found it also here, in this thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bstrobl View Post
Moreover, I took the chance and found out this recorded video of the chipset in action, decoding in real-time a 4K60fps AV1 clip from YouTube without dropping a frame: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGtjBwMwTtE
Lastly, I even found an announcement of Realtek regarding an integrated circuit RTD2893, capable of 8K AV1 decoding: https://www.realtek.com/en/press-roo...en-awards-copy.

Realtek is first and fast!
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Last edited by NikosD; 4th September 2019 at 19:58.
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Old 5th September 2019, 00:20   #1803  |  Link
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Originally Posted by NikosD View Post
...recorded video of the chipset in action, decoding in real-time a 4K60fps AV1 clip from YouTube without dropping a frame: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGtjBwMwTtE
That's awesome!
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Old 5th September 2019, 15:01   #1804  |  Link
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Working AV1 decoder chips are good, I'm guessing they might make it into 2020 TV's.

Of course there are also the forthcoming Rockchip SoC's coming next year - I'm pretty sure one of them (RK3530 I think) was aimed at HDTV's too, with the other (RK3588) likely to make it into cheap Android TV boxes with a bit more oomph than previously seen in that segment, given most non smartphone ARM based kit tops out at low clocked A72/A73 CPU cores.
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Old 5th September 2019, 16:13   #1805  |  Link
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On a side note, the experimental branch of AOM has a patch for 'NN based entropy coding' which presumably is a bit more involved than mere rate decision or motion estimation optimisations.

I wonder how it compares to the AV1 entropy coding for quality/complexity, isn't that a derivative of the Daala technique?
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Old 5th September 2019, 20:48   #1806  |  Link
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Paint.NET adding AV1 (*.avif) decoding in v4.2.2
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Old 11th September 2019, 03:48   #1807  |  Link
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It's kinda strange we have projects like x264/x265 for patent encumbered H.264/H.265 codecs, yet nothing like that for VP9/AV1.
I am unsure if I previously responded to this but this is more info I wasn't aware of.

Isn't there 3x AV1 encoders?
Are all 3 of them closed source or only designed for mass scale installs on cloud hardware or something?

Why are the 3 AV1 encoders inferior (in some ways?) to the x264 and x265 projects?
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Old 11th September 2019, 08:05   #1808  |  Link
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How much time has already been spent to develop x264 and x265? And since when are "final" AV1 specifications available? Compare and ask again.
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Old 11th September 2019, 12:06   #1809  |  Link
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Possible updates about AV1 adoption over the next week: https://aomedia.org/aomedia-members-...-capabilities/
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Old 11th September 2019, 18:43   #1810  |  Link
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Originally Posted by vidschlub View Post
I am unsure if I previously responded to this but this is more info I wasn't aware of.

Isn't there 3x AV1 encoders?
Are all 3 of them closed source or only designed for mass scale installs on cloud hardware or something?

Why are the 3 AV1 encoders inferior (in some ways?) to the x264 and x265 projects?
There are 3 open source AV1 encoders that I know of - LIBAOM (AOM reference), SVT-AV1 (Intel) and RAV1E (Xiph/Mozilla), in various stages of speed and quality optimisation.

There are other closed source, proprietary encoders like Aurora (ML focused optimisations galore), EVE-AV1 (Two Orioles/Ronald Bultje), and likely the usual customers like Ateme, Cisco and such have their own encoders in various stages at the moment.

The recent Big Apple Video conference gave a run down on most of them save RAV1E, likely due to Vimeo's conflict of interest there as a conference sponsor and a RAV1E contributor/sponsor.

The main point to take away is that x265 has 6-7 years of development, and x264 has closer to 15 years of development. They are both fairly mature, if not necessarilly the fastest options today (SVT-HEVC may change the game on x265 on speed).

Meanwhile AV1 was only standardised last year, it takes time to get these new codecs ship shape for production purposes, let alone significant maturity.
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Old 13th September 2019, 04:29   #1811  |  Link
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Adapt to multi-codec world or die, warns Bitmovin as AV1 escalates

Observing the video ecosystem from the video developer perspective is often overlooked, overshadowed somewhat by those higher up, so it was refreshing to read a report from encoding expert Bitmovin – giving the devs a well-deserved voice. Results from Bitmovin’s third annual developer survey showed an expectantly overwhelming reliance on H.264, although interestingly one-in-five developers plan to implement AV1 in 2020 – with big ramifications for the wider video industry. Device manufacturers, browser vendors, and content distributers like Cisco, Mozilla, and YouTube have already started implementing AV1 on larger scales, leading Bitmovin to conclude that AV1 is well positioned to compete with H.265/HEVC and to succeed VP9 for open-source use cases in 2020. This goes against the majority of conversations…
https://rethinkresearch.biz/articles...av1-escalates/
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Old 13th September 2019, 07:19   #1812  |  Link
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It's all "conservative politics", even in technology
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Old 13th September 2019, 09:14   #1813  |  Link
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What's conservative about adapting, or am I missing something in the full article?
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Old 14th September 2019, 19:04   #1814  |  Link
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If x265 and nvenc are the last encoders relevant for home users then I will miss building encoder GUIs, the first generations were painful but the last two generations were quite fun.
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Old 17th September 2019, 10:22   #1815  |  Link
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If x265 and nvenc are the last encoders relevant for home users then I will miss building encoder GUIs, the first generations were painful but the last two generations were quite fun.
There isn't anything codec-specific about nvenc. NVidia supports HW decode for multiple codecs, and can add more.

Something like 85% of new phones have HEVC HW decode, and we don't even have a release date for the first phone SoC that does hardware AV1. UHD Blu-ray and ATSC 3.0 are HEVC. There is going to be a substantial market for HEVC for a decade or more, just like there is still quite a lot of MPEG-2 still being encoded and delivered, and just like there will be a lot of H.264 for years too.

Heck, there was still Windows Media PlaysForSure content being published as of 2-3 years ago.
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Old 17th September 2019, 19:51   #1816  |  Link
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The usual threshold of hardware encoders is the limited temporal complexity. This hurts more for more advanced codecs taking more advantage of temporal redundancies. NVEnc may be a useful realtime encoder for AVC and HEVC. But it will be beaten easily if you can encode "offline" and spend more efforts into looking ahead.
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Old 20th September 2019, 19:07   #1817  |  Link
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There is lot of interest right now for HEVC 8k real time for the next sport events..
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Old 21st September 2019, 00:11   #1818  |  Link
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Phoronix has more benchmark numbers of SVT-AV1 v0.5 and dav1d v0.3, this time with the 48-core EPYC 7642:

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...pyc-7642&num=3
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Old 23rd September 2019, 08:32   #1819  |  Link
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There is lot of interest right now for HEVC 8k real time for the next sport events..
Which is crazy to me, I work with alot of UHD sport events, and we dont use enough bandwith already to do it justice, both on contribution and distribution side. The move to 8k is just beyond me, it must be tons of money from the monitor manufacturers cause I cant see any broadcasters or productions to see benefits in it. The price/performance ratio for UHD is already awful. I dont get the res craze, if you dont wanna spend the bits, dont increase it. Heck XDCAM50 (mpeg2 1080i) can still look better then what google is doing with 4k.

I would rather see a push for 1080p50/60, full 10bit pipline and rec2020 with a modern codec and a decent bitrate to replace the norm of 1080i/720p h264, cause it still looks amazing and takes way less effort and money to upgrade to. Cause most viewers wouldnt wanna finance an multi million dollar upgrade for some tech dreams, but I guess that we can still make them.

This is from an live/broadcast perspective mind you, VOD is a different scenario.

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Old 24th September 2019, 20:44   #1820  |  Link
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I would rather see a push for 1080p50/60, full 10bit pipline and rec2020 with a modern codec and a decent bitrate to replace the norm of 1080i/720p h264, cause it still looks amazing and takes way less effort and money to upgrade to. Cause most viewers wouldnt wanna finance an multi million dollar upgrade for some tech dreams, but I guess that we can still make them.

This is from an live/broadcast perspective mind you, VOD is a different scenario.
And that is certainly what North American sports broadcasters are focused on for the next big thing: 1080p60 10-bit HEVC HDR.

Interest in broadcast 8K is mainly in countries like Japan. South Korea, and China where there is a lot more available RF to use and where TV production is material to the national economy.

It is an interesting question for how many bits with what codec where a higher resolution pays off. At 6 Mbps CBR, 1080p60 is obviously better than 4K. But going from 1080 H.264 to 1080 HEVC worked at similar bitrates. The next gen VVC codec looks like it might offer the efficiency to do 8K VVC at the same bitrates as 4K HEVC. But we're some years out from having practical real-time VVC 8K encoders. Even 8K HEVC is still emerging tech, although certainly being done in trails and such.
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