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Old 6th November 2015, 07:13   #781  |  Link
videofan3d
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tartak View Post
videofan3d, are you going to update to Intel Media SDK 2015 Update 2.1? There are quite a few quality and performance improvements (plus official Windows 10 support) mentioned in Release Notes, but I am not sure how big the benefits really are. Is it just a matter of recompiling for you?
Yes, I will check this in upcoming weeks whether it requires changes in code or not. Please have some patience with me
In the meantime, you can try to use core Intel libraries libmfxswNN.dll / libmfxhwNN.dll from new version - they should (or at least could ) be backward compatible.
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Old 6th November 2015, 09:05   #782  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videofan3d View Post
Yes, I will check this in upcoming weeks whether it requires changes in code or not. Please have some patience with me
In the meantime, you can try to use core Intel libraries libmfxswNN.dll / libmfxhwNN.dll from new version - they should (or at least could ) be backward compatible.
Thanks!
I can confirm that dll's from Media SDK 2.1 work just fine with FRIMSource.

I think this AviSynth plugin makes your toolset the most flexible of the available options for 3D encoding. I would suggest a short wishlist to make it a good deal more convenient - if you find some time.
1) Make FRIMSource work with m2ts transport streams - then there would be no need to demux them first, we could work directly with the ripped blu-ray/image
2) Indexation system like in Donald Graft's plugins. Right now, even to find out the total number of frames, you need to fire DGIndexNV or something similar.
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Old 7th November 2015, 12:43   #783  |  Link
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Originally Posted by tartak View Post
Thanks!
I can confirm that dll's from Media SDK 2.1 work just fine with FRIMSource.

I think this AviSynth plugin makes your toolset the most flexible of the available options for 3D encoding. I would suggest a short wishlist to make it a good deal more convenient - if you find some time.
1) Make FRIMSource work with m2ts transport streams - then there would be no need to demux them first, we could work directly with the ripped blu-ray/image
2) Indexation system like in Donald Graft's plugins. Right now, even to find out the total number of frames, you need to fire DGIndexNV or something similar.
ad 1) - m2ts.
This is already implemented, just use parameter FRIMSource(..., container="ts", ...)

ad 2) indexation - this is very difficult task (and Donald's knowledge of h.264 format is much bigger than mine )
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Old 12th December 2015, 11:07   #784  |  Link
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I see that Intel Media SDK 2016 is available. Please can someone tell me if i is compatable.
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Old 13th December 2015, 08:35   #785  |  Link
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Just tested it, and it seems to have a bug, already reported to Donald Graft , for a previous version, here.

Note that FRIMSource can process the sample without problem. I don't know why.

Anyway, as far as I know, the only version without bugs of the libmfxsw32.dll is v6.14.11.28 released by Intel in November 2014. Several versions released in 2015 do have the "black frames" bug, and previous versions were unable to decode properly some frames of some rare 3D BDs (notably Pacific Rim and Ice Age 3). IMO, it is better to stick with v6.14.11.28. However, if you really want to try it, I can confirm that the new 2016 version (v7.15.10.28) is compatible with FRIMSource.

I have not tested the encoder.
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Old 8th January 2016, 12:47   #786  |  Link
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Mvc-3d

@videofan3d

r0lZ pointed me to Frimencoder for what I try to achieve.
I would like to create a MVC-3D with hardcodes subtitles using the 3D plane info from the 3D Bluray Disk.
Currently I am using BD3D2MK3D to create a FHD T&B video. Since KODI now supports MVC-3D on the Pi2 and on some Android devices I would like to create a high quality MVC-3D which works better on the android devices than the FHD T&B video. I need to hardcode the subs since there is currently no solution to display the 3D PGS subs correctly (even with the original 3D ISO).

Is there a method I could try using Frim?
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Old 10th January 2016, 16:10   #787  |  Link
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@videofan3d

r0lZ pointed me to Frimencoder for what I try to achieve.
I would like to create a MVC-3D with hardcodes subtitles using the 3D plane info from the 3D Bluray Disk.
Currently I am using BD3D2MK3D to create a FHD T&B video. Since KODI now supports MVC-3D on the Pi2 and on some Android devices I would like to create a high quality MVC-3D which works better on the android devices than the FHD T&B video. I need to hardcode the subs since there is currently no solution to display the 3D PGS subs correctly (even with the original 3D ISO).

Is there a method I could try using Frim?
Hi,

FRIM Encoder will only encode to MVC-3D planar 3D input, so it depends on you what you feed it with.

I never did any subtitle hardcoding (I don't like it). But I guess there are some plugins for Avisynth which will embed srt into video. Thus you could (in theory) decode original 3D-MVC using FRIMSource, and embed srt into (for L-eye and also for R-eye). And then then encode it back to 3D-MVC using FRIM Encode.

The key-task will be to obtain and somehow decode 3d-plane information from the original MVC stream. Unfortunately, I don't know how it is stored there and how to decode it for horizontal shift of L- and R-eye srt (to achieve Z-plane offset of the subtitles - for good viewer experience). Sorry...

Remark: Even more interesting would be to embed it into new MVC stream, but this is what only very expensive MVC-3D encoders do.
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Old 11th January 2016, 09:48   #788  |  Link
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The decoding of the original video streams and the 3D-planes can be made easily with BD3D2MK3D (with FRIMSource or DGMVCSource). The conversion of the subtitles to 3D is also automatically made by BD3D2MK3D after the demux operation. The final avisynth script can also hardcode the 3D subtitles (with the SupTitle plugin). However, currently, the output is either Full or Half SBS or T&B, or Full Frame-interleaved. I suppose that the frame-interleaved output is close to what DarkCinema wants to do, but currently the two views are encoded in AVC with x264.

DarkCinema wants a MKV with AVC and MVC streams. I suppose that computing the AVC and MVC streams with FRIMEncode (instead of a single interleaved AVC stream with x264) is possible. Can you confirm that FRIMEncode will accept the AVS script (with alternate frames for the left and right views) ? And do you know if that streams will be ready to be muxed with MkvMerge ? I don't know if they are compatible with the MKV container, or if only TS or M2TS is supported.

MakeMKV can create 3D-MKVs with AVC+MVC streams, but afaik it's a non-standard format, not officially supported by Matroska, and I don't know if MkvMerge is as tolerant. MakeMKV requires a 3D-BD as input, not AVC and MVC streams, and therefore DarkCinema can't use it.

Personally, I'm not really interested in adding the possibility to encode to MVC MKV in BD3D2MK3D, but if it's easy enough, I may do it.
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Old 11th January 2016, 11:09   #789  |  Link
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3D-MKV is compatible with Matroska, but the MVC is hidden.
You can remux the 3D output from MakeMKV with MKVtoolnix, the MVC is retained. But MKVmerge is not able to generate new 3D-MKVs from AVC and MVC.

The only player for 3D-MKV is the Stereoscopic Player from Peter Wimmer. 3D-subs are not well supported.
You can generate a simple 3D-Blu-ray from 3D-MKV with tsMuxeR to play on 3D standard players.
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Old 11th January 2016, 11:42   #790  |  Link
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Thanks for the precision. So, if I understand correctly, there is no possibility to create a 3D-MVC MKV with MkvMerge only. That's a serious problem, because I don't want to rely on MakeMKV (not free, and no command line).

I have also studied the possibility to encode to AVC+MVC with FRIMEncode, but it seems that it doesn't accept a frame-interleaved 3D stream (or AVS script) as input. It supports only two different streams, or SBS or T&B input. It is difficult to decode the two original AVC and MVC streams from the 3DBD with two different AVS scripts (due to the impossibility to seek with FRIMSource or DGMVCSource), and anyway it's not at all the way BD3D2MK3D works currently. Therefore the 2 streams input for FRIMEncode is not a good solution for me. It is also currently impossible to hardcode the subtitles on full-SBS or full-TAB (due to the limitation to single frame HD of the subtitles formats), and I don't want to rewrite everything to be able to hardcode the two subtitle streams on each view one at a time, and then combine the two views to Full-SBS or TAB.

It is, however, possible to use the avs script currently created by BD3D2MK3D for Half-SBS or Half-T&B (with or without hardcoded subtitles), and change only the encoder command to output the two video streams. But the benefit of the full resolution will be lost, and the final MKV will have to be created manually with MakeMKV. IMO, that's not interesting at all.

Therefore, it appears that the solution to create full-AVC+MVC MKV is way too complicated to be easily implemented in BD3D2MK3D. And since the compatibility of the MVC MKV format is at least very limited, I don't think I'll implement it. Sorry, DarkCinema. I can try to help you to establish a manual workflow if you wish, but you will have to study and test the possibilities of each programs yourself, and be sure that the output will be compatible with your hardware. I don't have enough time and interest to do it entirely for you, since now I'm sure that I don't want to implement it in BD3D2MK3D.

@videofan3d: Sorry for squatting your thread!
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Old 11th January 2016, 12:48   #791  |  Link
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I have also studied the possibility to encode to AVC+MVC with FRIMEncode, but it seems that it doesn't accept a frame-interleaved 3D stream (or AVS script) as input. It supports only two different streams, or SBS or T&B input.
FRIM Encode at the moment accepts "only" separate streams, SBS and TAB input. I didn't see a reason to implement frame interleaved format - I assumed it is possible to manipulate and create SBS from frame interleaved using proper Avisynth script. I'm I correct it is doable ? (question rather for Avisynth experts )
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Old 11th January 2016, 13:01   #792  |  Link
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Originally Posted by videofan3d View Post
FRIM Encode at the moment accepts "only" separate streams, SBS and TAB input. I didn't see a reason to implement frame interleaved format - I assumed it is possible to manipulate and create SBS from frame interleaved using proper Avisynth script. I'm I correct it is doable ? (question rather for Avisynth experts )
Just to be clear:

frame interleave = frame alternation,

i.e.
1. frame in the stream is L1
2. frame in the stream is R1
3. frame in the stream is L2
4. frame in the stream is R2
etc.
Correct?
If there is a need, I will consider to implement it.
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Old 11th January 2016, 14:06   #793  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r0lZ:
So, if I understand correctly, there is no possibility to create a 3D-MVC MKV with MkvMerge only. That's a serious problem, because I don't want to rely on MakeMKV (not free, and no command line).
right.
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Old 11th January 2016, 17:43   #794  |  Link
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The only player for 3D-MKV is the Stereoscopic Player from Peter Wimmer.
LAV nightly + latest madVR added support yesterday.
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Old 11th January 2016, 20:48   #795  |  Link
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Mvc-3d

Many thanks guys for your replies on my (I assumed simple) question. Seems to be a bit complicated to accomplish.

I never thought a solution would come so soon, but after waited for more than 2 years for a replacement media player, for my Mede8er and A-400, that could playback 3D Blu-ray ISO or MVC-3D with correct subtitle depth, I now have a working replacement.

The RC2 firmware of the VTEN supports 3D subtitles for both ISO and MVC using original PGS subtitles. It displays them on a fixed depth (configurable in future FW) and works fine using the PGS subs. This means right and left placement is kept + depth.

So this means no re-encoding is needed anymore.

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Old 12th January 2016, 09:44   #796  |  Link
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I assumed it is possible to manipulate and create SBS from frame interleaved using proper Avisynth script. I'm I correct it is doable ? (question rather for Avisynth experts )
Yes, it's possible. It's what BD3D2MK3D does.
I just don't want to have to modify completely my scripts just to be able to output another format, and currently they are built with the conversion to HALF-SBS or HALF-TAB at the very beginning, and then the 3D subtitles are hardcoded on top of the combined frames. It is a pity to have to resize them to half size just because subtitles cannot be hardcoded on full-SBS or full-TAB.
When FULL SBS or TAB is requested by the user, the frames are never combined, the subtitles are hardcoded on each view independently, and the output is frame interleaved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by videofan3d View Post
Just to be clear:

frame interleave = frame alternation,

i.e.
1. frame in the stream is L1
2. frame in the stream is R1
3. frame in the stream is L2
4. frame in the stream is R2
etc.
Correct?
If there is a need, I will consider to implement it.
That's correct, and with BD3D2MK3D, the first frame will always contain the first frame of the left eye view. But I suppose that other scripts may use whatever is the base view as the first frame, and in (not so) rare cases, that can be the right view. Anyway, for the encoder, that should not change anything. The "base view" (AVC) must always be the first stream.

Since it seems that the MVC MKV format is not needed by DarkCinema any more and anyway I don't want to implement it, I don't need the change. But you might want to consider it anyway. That will be simpler to implement via an avisynth script, since currently FRIMSource and DGMVCSource both return frames alternation. It is a pity to have to combine them to full-SBS/TAB, since they will be cut again when converted to AVC/MVC. It's only a waste of time. But I repeat that I don't need that myself, so do it only if you wish and if it's simple enough.
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Old 12th January 2016, 11:51   #797  |  Link
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...
But you might want to consider it anyway. That will be simpler to implement via an avisynth script, since currently FRIMSource and DGMVCSource both return frames alternation. It is a pity to have to combine them to full-SBS/TAB, since they will be cut again when converted to AVC/MVC. It's only a waste of time. But I repeat that I don't need that myself, so do it only if you wish and if it's simple enough.
I checked quickly and it is not too much work.

I will release FRIM 1.26 soon
- compiled with Intel Media 2016 libraries, so I will add this functionality to FRIMDecode and FRIMEncode (and FRIMSource).
No other changes are planned, Intel Media 2016 didn't bring any major functionality enhancement related to MVC.
(And practically, we all expect only continuous improvement in quality of encoding and performance )
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Old 13th January 2016, 09:27   #798  |  Link
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OK, thanks anyway for your efforts.

I know that the newest Intel libs do not offer better MVC decoding because it is lossless and (afaik) bug free, but I was hoping that the encoder has been improved. It's a pity if it's not the case, because there is much room for improvement here. Anyway, it is always good to stick with the latest version.
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Old 16th January 2016, 11:07   #799  |  Link
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Frim 1.26

FRIM 1.26 released

Changes:
  1. Compiled with Intel Media SDK 2016
  2. 64-bit versions renamed to FRIMDecode64.exe, FRIMEncode64.exe, FRIMTranscode64.exe. This allows to keep all executables on the same place and avoid confusion when calling the.
  3. FRIMEncode, FRIMDecode, FRIMSource: new option for frame-alternation input/output: -alt (similar to -sbs and -tab)
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Old 17th January 2016, 08:52   #800  |  Link
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Thanks for the -alt option! :-)
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