Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Today, 00:33   #55421  |  Link
SamuriHL
Registered User
 
SamuriHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 4,059
Ummmmm, that's pretty whacked. Shouldn't the TV internally be using RGB for everything, as well? If YCbCr444 doesn't produce banding, correct me if I'm off base here, doesn't that signify that the TV *might* be processing everything internally in that format and that receiving RGB and converting it is maybe what's causing the banding? Or am I just being dense here...
__________________
HTPC: Windows 10, I7 3770k, GTX 1060, Pioneer Elite VSX-LX303, LG C8 65" OLED
Laptop: MSI GT70 Dominator (Optimus)
SamuriHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 00:35   #55422  |  Link
nevcairiel
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamburg/Germany
Posts: 9,606
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
Ummmmm, that's pretty whacked. Shouldn't the TV internally be using RGB for everything, as well? If YCbCr444 doesn't produce banding, correct me if I'm off base here, doesn't that signify that the TV *might* be processing everything internally in that format and that receiving RGB and converting it is maybe what's causing the banding? Or am I just being dense here...
Its probably just a really shitty processing chip, or its being configured rather wrong in PC RGB mode.

TVs usually shouldn't have a reason to use YCbCr internally, since the panel is in RGB, and LUT adjustments etc should be done in RGB as well.
But then, manufacturers like to save a few bucks even on a $2000 TV, and you get shit like 4:2:2 subsampling in movie mode. You can't subsample RGB like that, so it has to use YCbCr internally at some point (and even worse, subsampled). Probably just for silly reasons, like the video processor being just bad like that.

I wonder if review sites like rtings.com test 4:4:4 in non-PC mode, or at least check for banding issues in PC mode, I should check one of their latest reviews for such info (Edit: apparently not quite as detailed).
__________________
LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders

Last edited by nevcairiel; Today at 00:41.
nevcairiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 00:38   #55423  |  Link
SamuriHL
Registered User
 
SamuriHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 4,059
Great job, LG! LOL UGH
__________________
HTPC: Windows 10, I7 3770k, GTX 1060, Pioneer Elite VSX-LX303, LG C8 65" OLED
Laptop: MSI GT70 Dominator (Optimus)
SamuriHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 00:47   #55424  |  Link
tp4tissue
Registered User
 
tp4tissue's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 253
EITHER.

They got 1 corrected table, and slaps it on all modes, (which) causes the corruption in RGB, as that is the wrong table.

OR

They enable the table for YCbCr and Disable it for Native RGB. __ As in the panel itself is RGB but its response is not entirely linear, thereby exhibiting its raw behavior in RGB mode.

__ This second case is much more likely than the first.
__ That PC mode is likely the raw, uncorrected color response of the oled panel .
__________________
Ghetto | 2500k 5Ghz

Last edited by tp4tissue; Today at 00:50.
tp4tissue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 02:36   #55425  |  Link
tp4tissue
Registered User
 
tp4tissue's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 253
What's the outlook on Madvr Dynamic tone map VS DolbyV..


And how does the dolbyV 12bit moniker work ?

How does their 1080p layer add 2 more bits onto the base layer ?
__________________
Ghetto | 2500k 5Ghz

Last edited by tp4tissue; Today at 02:38.
tp4tissue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 05:58   #55426  |  Link
ryrynz
Registered User
 
ryrynz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,019
Is this really the place to be asking that?
ryrynz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 15:23   #55427  |  Link
Warner306
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,005
Quote:
Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post
What's the outlook on Madvr Dynamic tone map VS DolbyV..


And how does the dolbyV 12bit moniker work ?

How does their 1080p layer add 2 more bits onto the base layer ?
There is no current way to test this. I would assume Dolby Vision would be more subtle compared to any of the dynamic tone mapping solutions for HDR10, but they are both frame-based. The results would be dictated more by the tone mapping algorithm used because frame-based metadata is merely a guide for tone mapping.

Dolby Vision is an independent, second layer, so it could be any bit depth. The extra two bits can lessen banding of the specular highlights when dithered down to 10-bits by providing a better source. That is one notable advantage.
Warner306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 16:27   #55428  |  Link
kolak
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 2,345
Madshi or nevcairiel could you comment on this:

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.p...99#post1867399
kolak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 16:38   #55429  |  Link
j82k
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 84
I gotta retract my statement about 23/24 Hz in pc-mode causing 3:2 pulldown judder on the LG C8.
They must have fixed this at one point via firmware update without mentioning it in the update notes.

I used rtings pulldown-judder test and it seems to have proper 5:5 cadence in pc-mode now even without the greyed out real cinema option. I did that same test last year and there would always be judder when outputting 23/24 Hz in pc-mode.


This is how it looks now:



This is how it looks in non-pc mode with real cinema disabled and how it looked in pc-mode when I tested this previously:


So this is good and it means that I'm gonna use pc-mode with ycbcr444 for now... That is until I find some other issue with it.
j82k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 16:52   #55430  |  Link
blu3wh0
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 38
Are you sure you are still in PC Mode when you tested ybcr444? I know that for some configurations (resolution, frequency, format), the LG will throw you out of PC Mode, defaulting to the HDMI processing without actually telling you. 1080p 23Hz I know does this on my B7. You can tell by making sure none of the greyed out options like real cinema return. I haven't actually tried your config since that will still limit me to the limited color range, but may be worth it if it reduces banding while keeping 4:4:4.
blu3wh0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 16:59.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.