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Old 17th May 2012, 10:51   #2021  |  Link
Pawpcorn
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Problem with colored sub-idx subtitles [SOLVED!]

Dear Mr. C;

Sorry for the delay in followup!!! I've been very busy in my "day job" (hahaha Teaching Thai Students in "Summer Session")

AHH!!! I figured out the problem with the red and blue VOB subtitles!!

The color values in the AVStoDVD "_palette.txt" (MuxMan batch -palette settings file) actually produce the Red characters with Blue outline!

However, if you change (the contents of the file to) the following values... the result is White characters with a black outline:
Color 0=0, 0, 0
Color 1=240, 240, 240
Color 2=0, 0, 0
Color 3=255, 255, 255
Color 4=1, 254, 0
Color 5=255, 0, 254
Color 6=255, 255, 0
Color 7=1, 124, 124
Color 8=125, 125, 125
Color 9=225, 225, 225
Color 10=123, 0, 1
Color 11=0, 124, 0
Color 12=1, 0, 123
Color 13=222, 1, 253
Color 14=221, 125, 0
Color 15=125, 0, 124

Note: (besides the format of TAB -TAB prior to data) that I chose 240, instead of 255 for the white characters, on the advice of another member here... as perhaps slightly more pleasing to the eye than 100% white.
=============================================
If you're interested in how I arrived at this solution, this was the deductive process:

I read the link you provided regarding MuxMan. Very Interesting! Thanks!

I looked in the MuxMan folder in the AVStoDVD folder group, at the documentation file: BatchMux Usage.txt

Within the documentation was the description of usage for the -palette file, as follows:
===========================================
// -palette palette_file, optional; PgcEdit compatible ascii file containing
// 16 colour entries (index, red, green, blue) adopted for redefining the
// default color palette used by MuxMan
============================================
Which, upon seeing the reference to PgcEdit, made me think...

I had previously used PgcEdit to fix an earlier DVD's VOB subtitles (to change Red and Blue to White and Black), made with AVStoDVD... so...

I opened that corrected DVD into PgcEdit, and went into the PgcEditor... confirming that the colors were White Character, and Black Outline.

Then I "Export"ed the correct Sub-Picture Color Lookup Table, in ASCII format. The resultant file was called "vts01_ttn01.txt"

Then I tried "Import"ing the "DVD_39_Palette.txt" file, which AVStoDVD had created, in earlier tests. To my surprise, the color palette switched to Red Characters and Blue Outline!
http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/...tteresults.jpg

Then I imported the "vts01_ttn01.txt" palette file I'd just created, above. The color palette switched back to the proper colors:
http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/...ookupTable.jpg

I went back and forth a few times to confirm and double-check! (because, frankly, your numbers HAD looked good to me too!! hahahaha)

So... Anyway, clear results.

Then, as a workaround, for the time being, when I am processing a DVD with AVStoDVD, I set the "Edit Encoder Command Parameters at Runtime" as checked, and when the MuxMan batch parameters appear, I substitute in the "vts01_ttn01.txt" file, in place of the "DVD_nn_Palette.txt" file in the "-palette "C:\Users\Gerald\AppData\Local\Temp\DVD_nn_Palette.txt" portion of the MuxMan batch file, and tell it to proceed, with perfect results.

As you suggested, I emailed you the two files mentioned above, to possibly assist you in your further development.
(Check your junk mail, if you don't see it... I included a hyperlink to this message, which might make it look like junk mail)

And THANK YOU again, for your wonderful creation!!!! I use it EVERY day(!!!!) in creating learning DVD movies (English soundtrack, Thai and English subtitles) to help my Thai students learn English rather effortlessly.

Without your creation, this wouldn't be possible!!! Kudos!!!
Take care,
Pawpcorn
==========================================

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawpcorn View Post
Thank you, Mr.C, for your speedy reply!

I'm researching what you gave me...
I DO see the nice "_palette.txt" file, with the proper contents of:


and the batch file for MuxMan is as follows... {just in case you spot anything }

And yet... looking at the resultant Sub-Picture Color Lookup Table, Using PgcEdit (see link at Photo Bucket)
http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/.../PGCEditor.png
You can see color 0 is set to Blue, and color 1 is set to Red, thus red characters with a blue outline.

I haven't started researching your link about MuxMan yet... but I wanted to thank you, and give you this additional feedback, in case it is helpful to you, if you have the opportunity to look into this problem.

I'd be happy to send you (not sure how!) the short test video and the idx/sub sub files used for this latest test.

Thanks again,
Pawpcorn
P.S. The "foreground color is defined in 'Preferences'/'AuthoringBurning' page" that you mentioned, appears to be used for .srt subtitles, and is not in play, when using .idx/.sub VOB subtitles.

Last edited by Pawpcorn; 17th May 2012 at 11:00. Reason: added "check junk mail" note.... :)
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Old 17th May 2012, 15:31   #2022  |  Link
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Hi Pawpcorn,

probably you have not read so carefully the links I've posted before ;-)

The issue with subtitles taken from DVD (idx/sub) is not so easy to solve. Those idx/sub subtitles come with their own palette map (colors and index) and this palette map can vary from DVD to DVD (hence from idx/sub to idx/sub). That's why sometimes you will get a final DVD with black/white subtitles (original idx/sub are compliant with the palette.txt generated by AVStoDVD) and sometimes you will get blue/red (or purple/green, or whatelse) subtitles.

That's why it is usually recommended to open the "subs messed up" DVD with PgcEdit and correct only the wrong colors (foreground and outline). But they can be in every position in the PgcEdit colors lookup table. Unfortunately there's no general rule for idx/sub palette maps, or at least none that I have already discovered. Obviously I am open to suggestions how to improve this aspect.

The standard palette.txt used by AVStoDVD is designed for srt to sup conversion using SubtitleCreator. And for idx/sub subtitles taken from DVD created by AVStoDVD (starting from srt). But not for idx/sub taken from unpredictable sources, including commercial DVDs.

I hope to have better clarified the issue.



Bye
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Old 17th May 2012, 18:19   #2023  |  Link
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VOB subtitle colors....

Hi, MrC! Thanks for writing back!

You wrote: "But they [wrong subtitle colors] can be in every position in the PgcEdit colors lookup table." OMG!

So you are saying that when loading various future DVD project results into PgcEdit, and looking at the Sub-Picture Color Lookup Table, that Color 0 won't always refer to the outline, and Color 1 won't always refer to the character color, as has been the case, so far, in my projects?

And thus... the palette file I created may or may not work, in the future? (it HAS worked reliably on a couple projects, so far... but I've only tried it twice so far )

When I load the standard AVStoDVD palette file into PgcEdit... I see
Color 0 is 100% saturated BLUE, and
Color 1 is 100% saturated RED,
Color 2 is 0% lum Black, and
Color 3 is 100% lum WHITE.

I would surmise then, that since you said the AVStoDVD palette design is based upon "srt to sup conversion using SubtitleCreator", and since ONLY blocks 2 and 3 are black and white blocks, that in your test DVD projects, color 3 is assigned as the character color, and color 2 is assigned as the outline?

In my projects so far, Color 0 has been outline, and Color 1 has been character color; but I know you pointed out that it's your understanding that this is not always the assignment, eh?

By the way, I want to mention that in addition to the idx/sub subtitles, I ALSO always include a second subtitle, an .srt subtitle, into every project... and these always come out white with black outline, no problem.

One additional possible point of interest, may be that I am not ripping the VOB idx/sub Subtitles off of DVDs, but rather using external idx/sub files that were extracted from BlueRay DVDs that I then run through the BDSup2Sub401.jar VOB subtitles program, to convert them to PAL DVD size, and also to move the subtitle positioning into a uniform consistent position... So... if the BDSup2Sub401.jar program alters the idx/sub color information in some ways... I may be introducing some degree of consistency into the data contents of the .idx/sub subtitles of my DVD projects, through this filtering process...

Maybe in my projects, Color 0 will always be for outline, and Color 1 will always be for character color...?!

Gads, confusing stuff, to be sure...

Thanks for your patience,
Pawpcorn

Maybe I'll be lucky... and my little vts01_ttn01.txt palette batch file will work every time, hahhaha....

Thanks again, Mr.C
Pawpcorn

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrC View Post
Hi Pawpcorn,

probably you have not read so carefully the links I've posted before ;-)

The issue with subtitles taken from DVD (idx/sub) is not so easy to solve. Those idx/sub subtitles come with their own palette map (colors and index) and this palette map can vary from DVD to DVD (hence from idx/sub to idx/sub). That's why sometimes you will get a final DVD with black/white subtitles (original idx/sub are compliant with the palette.txt generated by AVStoDVD) and sometimes you will get blue/red (or purple/green, or whatelse) subtitles.

That's why it is usually recommended to open the "subs messed up" DVD with PgcEdit and correct only the wrong colors (foreground and outline). But they can be in every position in the PgcEdit colors lookup table. Unfortunately there's no general rule for idx/sub palette maps, or at least none that I have already discovered. Obviously I am open to suggestions how to improve this aspect.

The standard palette.txt used by AVStoDVD . And for idx/sub subtitles taken from DVD created by AVStoDVD (starting from srt). But not for idx/sub taken from unpredictable sources, including commercial DVDs.

I hope to have better clarified the issue.



Bye
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Old 17th May 2012, 19:39   #2024  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawpcorn View Post
You wrote: "But they [wrong subtitle colors] can be in every position in the PgcEdit colors lookup table." OMG!

So you are saying that when loading various future DVD project results into PgcEdit, and looking at the Sub-Picture Color Lookup Table, that Color 0 won't always refer to the outline, and Color 1 won't always refer to the character color, as has been the case, so far, in my projects?
Exactly. PgcEdit will be your friend in that cases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawpcorn View Post
And thus... the palette file I created may or may not work, in the future? (it HAS worked reliably on a couple projects, so far... but I've only tried it twice so far )
Let's say that if your idx/sub files are coming from "consistent" sources, your custom palette.txt file will work for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawpcorn View Post
When I load the standard AVStoDVD palette file into PgcEdit... I see
Color 0 is 100% saturated BLUE, and
Color 1 is 100% saturated RED,
Color 2 is 0% lum Black, and
Color 3 is 100% lum WHITE.

I would surmise then, that since you said the AVStoDVD palette design is based upon "srt to sup conversion using SubtitleCreator", and since ONLY blocks 2 and 3 are black and white blocks, that in your test DVD projects, color 3 is assigned as the character color, and color 2 is assigned as the outline?
That is the color map configuration that SubtitleCreator gives to the output sup file.

Willing to make a quick test?

1. Create a (smallest as possible) DVD (#1) with srt subtitles using AVStoDVD
2. Extract the m2v, ac3, idx/sub files
3. Add this assets to AVStoDVD to create the same DVD (#2)
4. Use standatd AVStoDVD palette. DVD #2 subtitles will have same colors as DVD #1
5. Use your custom palette.txt. What colors do you get in DVD #2?



Bye
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Last edited by MrC; 17th May 2012 at 20:00.
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Old 18th May 2012, 05:58   #2025  |  Link
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subtitle color # assignment different, when sourced from .srt vs idx.sub

Ok, I get your point and I understand the purpose of your test idea...

Since your test design focused only on subtitles sourced as .srt files...

I thought of an alternative test, to test color assignments of BOTH .srt subtitles and sourced VOB (idx.sub) subtitles, by doing the following:

I took a completed DVD (created by AVSDVD) that contained TWO subtitles:
Subtitle 1 had been sourced as .srt
Subtitle 2 had been sourced as .idx/sub
I edited this DVD, using PgcEdit
I assigned: (for the purpose of later identification during viewing)
Color 0 orange
Color 1 dark green
Color 2 purple
Color 3 cyan

Then I viewed the resultant DVD.

What I saw was...

The subtitles that had been sourced as .srt were cyan character, purple outline, thus:
.srt sourced subtitles are using
Color 3 for the character color assignment
Color 2 for the outline color assignment

(Which is what I had theorized in an earlier message)
(and thus my custom file would have worked fine, since I never touched colors 2 and 3; they remained black and white, as in your -palette batch file)

The subtitles that had been sourced as .idx/sub were dark green character, orange outline, thus:
.idx/sub sourced subtitles are using:
Color 1 for the character color assignment
Color 0 for the outline color assignment


As somewhat of an afterthought... if AVStoDVD could be changed to process idx/sub subtitles to be consistent to .srt subtitles (using just colors 2 & 3)... then the default -palette table would work for both source-types of subtitles, and... issue retired (perhaps)

Thanks for your info, and ideas for the test!
Take care,
Pawpcorn

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrC View Post
Exactly. PgcEdit will be your friend in that cases.



Let's say that if your idx/sub files are coming from "consistent" sources, your custom palette.txt file will work for them.



That is the color map configuration that SubtitleCreator gives to the output sup file.

Willing to make a quick test?

1. Create a (smallest as possible) DVD (#1) with srt subtitles using AVStoDVD
2. Extract the m2v, ac3, idx/sub files
3. Add this assets to AVStoDVD to create the same DVD (#2)
4. Use standatd AVStoDVD palette. DVD #2 subtitles will have same colors as DVD #1
5. Use your custom palette.txt. What colors do you get in DVD #2?



Bye

Last edited by Pawpcorn; 18th May 2012 at 06:28. Reason: afterthought about pgm processing of idx/sub subtitles, to be consistent to .srt subtitles
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Old 18th May 2012, 10:18   #2026  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawpcorn View Post
As somewhat of an afterthought... if AVStoDVD could be changed to process idx/sub subtitles to be consistent to .srt subtitles (using just colors 2 & 3)... then the default -palette table would work for both source-types of subtitles, and... issue retired (perhaps)
It would work for some idx/sub but not for all. I cannot predict what is the idx/sub colors map (type and sequence).

In other words, the process to ajust colors for idx/sub can be implemented only if there is any method to parse the idx/sub colors map. I did not find that method yet.



Bye
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Old 18th May 2012, 10:47   #2027  |  Link
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idx/sub subtitles colors

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrC View Post
It would work for some idx/sub but not for all. I cannot predict what is the idx/sub colors map (type and sequence).

In other words, the process to ajust colors for idx/sub can be implemented only if there is any method to parse the idx/sub colors map. I did not find that method yet.



Bye
Gotcha there... I understand.

Is there any place in the AVStoDVD folder or file structure where I could place a replacement -palette file?

Or alter the color 0 and color 1 -palette data that you use to build the -palette batch file?

Then I wouldn't have to use the "Edit Encoder Command Parameters at runtime" option every time, to manually replace the -palette batch file every time I process a DVD.

(not a biggie)

Thanks,
Bye
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Old 18th May 2012, 14:49   #2028  |  Link
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The _palette.txt file is created at runtime in the Temporary File Folder ('Preferences'/'Path'). Color 3 is customized according to the subtitles color set up in 'Preferences'/'Authoring'.

'Edit Encoder Command Parameters at runtime' option is the best solution so far.



Bye
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Old 18th May 2012, 15:26   #2029  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrC View Post
The _palette.txt file is created at runtime in the Temporary File Folder ('Preferences'/'Path'). Color 3 is customized according to the subtitles color set up in 'Preferences'/'Authoring'.

'Edit Encoder Command Parameters at runtime' option is the best solution so far.



Bye
OK, thanks for your time and effort in working with me on this... It's been illuminating, to say the least.

Take care Mr. C...
Pawpcorn

Last edited by Pawpcorn; 22nd May 2012 at 07:09. Reason: remove my stupid suggestion...
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Old 22nd May 2012, 10:00   #2030  |  Link
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Dear Mr.C,

Remember how you pointed out to me in an earlier message how various VOB subtitles could have different color block assignments... and that there was no set pattern to that?

Well, I had that very thing happen, in this last project.
Subtitle #1 (processed .srt) used COLOR 2 for OUTLINE, COLOR 3 for CHARACTER (as always).. BUT...
Subtitle #2 (VOB sub/idx) used COLOR 0 for OUTLINE, COLOR 2 for CHARACTER !!!

Thus the black OUTLINE of the .srt subtitles created a black CHARACTER on the VOB subtitles!

Natch, PgcEdit couldn't fix this problem, since it was an issue of cross-assignment of the same color block, for different purposes.

I submitted a query here in the doom9 subtitle forum, and got back the advice of downloading and trying SubtitleCreator to reassign the VOB color block assignments.

I was skeptical that SC would actually DO that, thinking that it probably just would set colors, same as PgcEdit... but to my pleasant surprise, it actually worked!!!

After some experimentation, trial and error, I figured out how to make it work, and decided I could just use the same settings for the VOB subtitles as you use for the .srt subtitles; so I assigned Color Block 2 as Outline, and Color Block 3 as Character.

Now... NO NEED for changing anything within AVStoDVD; neither setting the 'Edit Encoder Command Parameters at runtime' option, nor adding a substitute color palette file! Everything running in default mode, which is nice.

Just in case you (or other users) may wish to try this...
The steps for changing the color block assignment in SubtitleCreator are as follows:
1) load the VOB subtitle file
2) click on the top subtitle, to select it.
3) on the right hand side menu, click the down arrow to change "Edit This" to "Edit All"
4) Under "Set Colors" Select Background to 00, Text to 03, Outline to 02, and Anti-Alias to 00. This matches the color assignment of AVStoDVD.
5) Click the "Set Subtitles Colors and Position" button.
6) Click on the first subtitle again.
7) On the keyboard, continue to press the down arrow key, which will select (and change) the next subtitle, changing the color assignment there, too.
8) Continue to press the down arrow key, until you've changed every single subtitle. If you just HOLD DOWN the arrow key, this works too, but sometimes it will skip a subtitle, so you must watch for that, and go back and select that subtitle too...
9) Disregard that the subtitles appear to be gray with gray outline; it just so happens that SubtitleCreator has those colors showing as Colors 02 and 03, but after processing with AVStoDVD, they will be Black and White, as set by the AVStoDVD Palette file.
10) Click File, Save VOBSub as... new filename.

Thanks again for your earlier help with this issue of mixed subtitles / sourced idx/sub subtitles, and, of course, thanks again for your terrific program!

Take care,
Pawpcorn
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Old 10th June 2012, 05:29   #2031  |  Link
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To Mr. C.

Great forum here. I am a newbie and having problems with the program.

I have an MKV file when I burn dvd with AVStoDVD 2.4.2, picture is perfect, but no sound.

I normally play my files in Windows media player but I couldn't get sound to work. I did some reading on line and saw lots of people like vlc media player. I tried and sound works. Then I tried to make dvd.

From what I've been reading it may be a problem with audio in MKV file but I'm not sure how to fix it. Do I have to fix MKV before burning with AVStoDVD or will some settings in your program automatically correct the audio in the burning process?

Last edited by John1999; 10th June 2012 at 05:31. Reason: mistake
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Old 11th June 2012, 14:58   #2032  |  Link
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@John1999

it sounds like you do not have the proper audio directshow codec installed. Have you tried with ffdshow?

Post here the AVStoDVD project log file.



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Old 19th June 2012, 18:33   #2033  |  Link
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I'm having an issue where the program is aborting at the dvd authoring step, and it appears to have something to do with the menu creation. I've tried 2.4.2 and the latest beta 2.5.0. I've tried converting different xvids and still the same result. Uninstalled and reinstalled the program to reset setting and everything, any help on this would be appreciated.

This is the error from the log:

<6/19/2012 10:21:51 AM>
ERROR DURING OPERATIONS ('DVD Authoring operations' Section): 0 -
<>

<6/19/2012 10:21:51 AM>
PROCESS ABORTED.
<>

Update: Went back to 2.3.4 and had no issue, going to try 2.4.1 next.
Update 2: Yep all versions 2.4.0 and up do not finish the project while 2.3.4 has no problem, maybe the removal of QuEnc is the cause?

Last edited by rippn; 19th June 2012 at 22:12.
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Old 20th June 2012, 13:45   #2034  |  Link
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Could you please post the complete log file of an aborted project?

What do you mean by "removal of QuEnc"?



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Old 20th June 2012, 18:21   #2035  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrC View Post
Could you please post the complete log file of an aborted project?

What do you mean by "removal of QuEnc"?



Bye
Already deleted them and finished my projects with 2.3.4, so I apologize I don't have a log to post. What I mean by the removal of QuEnc is during the authoring stage on 2.3.4 a QuEnc window appears, this window doesn't appear in the newer versions.

If a log will help, I will install a newer version and do another project. Let me know.
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Old 21st June 2012, 12:32   #2036  |  Link
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QuEnc is launched, before DVD authoring step, to create the motion DVD menu, if that option is selected. Otherwise QuEnc is not called. No differences between 2.3.4 and 2.4.x releases about that.

Probably with the newer releases (I don't know why, the log could help more), there are some issues when creating DVD menu thumbnails or background images (bmp), just before starting to create the motion DVD meu (m2v) with QuEnc.

Do you get same error using static DVD menu?



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Old 21st June 2012, 20:53   #2037  |  Link
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Hi Mrc,

I say the update on my email from videohelp (translation ini files).

Did you had someone to translate in french the ini files?

Because if you doesnt had someone, i can translate it. It has a lot of translations to do.

But i had no times for the moment. Im in productions of two website and videos editing for an company. So im busy for around 1 month and a half. It you doesnt had someone in that time, i will can help you.

Let me know...
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Old 21st June 2012, 22:19   #2038  |  Link
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@8ternity

a French translation would be great! Thanks a lot. The localization ini files writing is still ongoing, forms are completed but messages still not. BTW if you may start to have a look, it would be really very appreciated, as for the graphical contribution you have already given.

Since you have already disclosed... AVStoDVD release 2.5.0 Alpha 120621 is available to download

Change log from 2.4.2:

- Some bugs fixed
- Added Quick StartUp Tutorial to setup main AVStoDVD preferences
- Added possibility to customize GUI language. Support to create translation ini files is welcome!
- Added support to HCenc *ZONE command (to increase or lower bitrate for parts of the video)
- Added 160 kbps as supported bitrate for MP2 and AC3 audio encoding
- Added 160 kbps to DVD compliant audio bitrates list for MP2 and AC3
- Added 'Set encoding Priority' in 'Preferences'/'Misc'
- Added Preferences Paths integrity check at startup
- Added question messages (Yes/No) with automatic default reply at runtime
- Removed 'Display errors messages at runtime' option in 'Preferences'/'Misc'
- Replaced 'Keep DVD Compliant Video/Audio' with 'Video/Audio Direct Stream Copy' in 'Edit Title'
- FFmpeg updated to N-35509
- MediaInfo updated to 0.7.57



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Old 21st June 2012, 22:48   #2039  |  Link
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Did you setup the last recommendations i've give you last time in your to do list?

"Put in minimize all batch processes"?
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Old 21st June 2012, 22:51   #2040  |  Link
8ternity
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Originally Posted by MrC View Post
@8ternity

BTW if you may start to have a look, it would be really very appreciated, as for the graphical contribution you have already given.
Yes i've take a look. It's not complicated of what i've seen from now. Im not perfect in French, but translate is the most job and we can't fix error or corrections latest on bugs or suggestions submited by other users.

I've translate an b2c auto parts store software and WinISO software in french in 2011-2012.


For now, i need to finished my current customers because it's the seasons and they need to get refresh as soon as possible for making sales.

Is that possible to add ourself on msn messenger? (in pm(exchange)).
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PC; 7.5 on 7.9 (Windows Experience Rating) on the lower rating.
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