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Old 5th March 2014, 19:23   #19481  |  Link
DoctorM
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I remember reading back with someone reporting that during extraction the audio track was blank. I think it was a DTS issue(?)
Anyway, impossible to search this thread with any keywords that doesn't return just about every post with a log.

Can anyone tell me what the issue was? I just saw this happen today and was trying to figure out a work around.
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Old 5th March 2014, 20:00   #19482  |  Link
Peter_A
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
Well with all due respect in return... since I am the author of the software, the calculation to be used will be decided by me.

I've answered your questions courteously. I've looked at the calculations very carefully -- and I'm not going to argue this point, no matter how many times you repeat your posts.

What I will do, when I find the time, is run "The Artist" and follow the code and see why it decides that reencoding is necessary. But I'm confident the reasoning will follow the rules I've already stated numerous times in the past several pages.
Thanks for your response, and I do appreciate your time. It's great to be able to have a dialogue with the person who is developing the software.

I'm just a bit frustrated, because this was working for me before, and I cannot figure out why it is not now, especially since you've confirmed that nothing has changed with respect to these calculations. The last 3 titles that I have tried are exhibiting this behavior. I only mentioned "The Artist" due to the very small amount that it needed to be shrunk, and the large amount of space saved by the audio re-encode. Of course, by modifying the target size, I have found a way around this behavior.

Maybe you'll be able to see something, and if so, I look forward to hearing about it. Thanks again.
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Old 5th March 2014, 20:00   #19483  |  Link
Ch3vr0n
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that was for the pip stream relying on dts-express, not a 3D issue. That has been fixed recently with tsmuxer being updated to handle dts-e
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Old 5th March 2014, 22:09   #19484  |  Link
mparade
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@jdobbs

- [21:49:39] Processing: VID_00066 (55 of 102)
- [21:49:39] Extracting A/V streams [VID_00066]
- Error in attempt to MKVMERGE.
[21:50:21] - Failed to retrieve audio, aborted

If I remember correctly, I could make a back up of this BD (using BD-RB version 0.45.05) with which I am currently having a problem like above. Unfortunately, I could not test it due to an expiration message of the older version. I hoped I could bridge through the "problem" I have with only one BD from my BD stock.
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Old 5th March 2014, 22:17   #19485  |  Link
Peter_A
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mparade View Post
@jdobbs

- [21:49:39] Processing: VID_00066 (55 of 102)
- [21:49:39] Extracting A/V streams [VID_00066]
- Error in attempt to MKVMERGE.
[21:50:21] - Failed to retrieve audio, aborted

If I remember correctly, I could make a back up of this BD (using BD-RB version 0.45.05) with which I am currently having a problem like above. Unfortunately, I could not test it due to an expiration message of the older version. I hoped I could bridge through the "problem" I have with only one BD from my BD stock.

I also just tried to use 0.45.05, today, to do a sanity check and confirm that what I am trying to do now worked then. I also received the expiration message and was therefore unable to test.
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Old 5th March 2014, 22:26   #19486  |  Link
jdobbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_A View Post
I also just tried to use 0.45.05, today, to do a sanity check and confirm that what I am trying to do now worked then. I also received the expiration message and was therefore unable to test.
There have been about 58 improvements and bug fixes since v0.45.05. Going back in time isn't an option, so what good would that do anyway? I also can't really help without enough information to make a logical conclusion. I don't have the name of the disc, I don't have the log, I don't have the INI file, I don't even have the circumstances surrounding the problem. With those conditions the best I can do is throw down a bunch of chicken bones and hope the pattern somehow leads me the problem. This applies to both these posts.

Things can't get fixed with posts that just say "...it doesn't work"
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Last edited by jdobbs; 5th March 2014 at 22:33.
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Old 5th March 2014, 22:33   #19487  |  Link
Peter_A
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
I can't really help without enough information to make a logical conclusion. I don't have the name of the disc, I don't have the log, I don't have the INI file, I don't even have the circumstances surrounding the problem. With those conditions the best I can do is throw down a bunch of chicken bones and hope the pattern leads me the problem. This applies to both these posts.

Things can't get fixed with posts that just say "...it doesn't work"
Sorry, jdobbs, I was referring to the video re-encode issue which we discussed earlier and I had stated appeared to be working for me in version 0.45.05. I wanted to try that version again, to see if that version did work with the discs I am experiencing issues with now. Unfortunately, due to the expiration, I was unable to test.
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Old 5th March 2014, 22:44   #19488  |  Link
mparade
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
There have been about 58 improvements and bug fixes since v0.45.05. Going back in time isn't an option, so what good would that do anyway? I also can't really help without enough information to make a logical conclusion. I don't have the name of the disc, I don't have the log, I don't have the INI file, I don't even have the circumstances surrounding the problem. With those conditions the best I can do is throw down a bunch of chicken bones and hope the pattern somehow leads me the problem. This applies to both these posts.

Things can't get fixed with posts that just say "...it doesn't work"
Sorry for that. Attached now the files required.
I have tried internal LAVF for decoding also with the same results, unfortunately.
Attached Files
File Type: zip Princess and the Frog.zip (3.7 KB, 11 views)
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Old 6th March 2014, 01:33   #19489  |  Link
Sharc
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I have Extras which are reported by BD-RB as 1080i,29.97fps.
I resize to 1440x1080, and the script becomes accordingly
Code:
#Created by BD Rebuilder - v0.46.14 (beta)
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files VIDEO\DGdecNV\DGDecodeNV.dll")
DGSource("C:\TEMP\BD REBUILDER\WORKFILES\VID_01054.DGI", fieldop=0)
SeparateFields()
BicubicResize(1440,540)
Weave()
ConvertToYV12().AssumeFPS(30000,1001)
It gets encoded as interlaced (MBAFF), but with ugly blended frames with visible combing.
I tried various settings, but as soon as I resize to 1440x1080 I get the blended frames. When I don't resize I am getting a progressive 3:2 pattern at 29.97 without blended frames but with the 3:2 judder.

Now I found that the source is actually not interlaced, but telecined.
The script
Code:
TFM().tdecimate()
seems to produce perfect progressive frames with no blends at 23.976 fps, which can be resized to 1440x1080.

Is there an option or a setting in DB-RB which I possibly missed?
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Old 6th March 2014, 01:40   #19490  |  Link
jdobbs
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Turn on deinterlacing.

You'll also find that most of the time you'll find that the combing effects are only visible on a computer, but aren't there when you play back using a standalone and a monitor.
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Last edited by jdobbs; 6th March 2014 at 01:42.
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Old 6th March 2014, 02:02   #19491  |  Link
DoctorM
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@Peter_A - Turn the clock back on your PC to Feb of this year and you can test 45.05 (it's what I'm doing right now).
I do agree, I've seen that recent builds calculate: Full BD with all audio / Target Size = Compression Ratio.
No deduction are made for stripped or compressed tracks.

It my be a per PC issue of some sort, otherwise a lot of people should be reporting undersized discs.

Last edited by DoctorM; 6th March 2014 at 09:12.
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Old 6th March 2014, 11:03   #19492  |  Link
Sharc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
Turn on deinterlacing.

You'll also find that most of the time you'll find that the combing effects are only visible on a computer, but aren't there when you play back using a standalone and a monitor.
Yep, you are right.
Actually I made 2 mistakes :
1) When leaving it as interlaced and watching the result on PC, I had the deinterlacer of the SW player disabled, hence the blended/combed frames. The TV applies its deinterlacer on material which is flagged as interlaced, and the result looks good on TV. The TV seems to bob to 60fps.
2) When I selected "Use DEINTERLACER on interlaced sources" I had -- from a previous test -- "DEINTERLACER_TYPE=4" in the .ini which removed the deinterlacer from the script; therefore the ugly result. Leaving the "DEINTERLACER TYPE= " alone I get a "3+2blended" same rate (29.97fps) pattern which also looks ok on TV.
Eventually I tried "DEINTERLACER_TYPE=3" (smoothdeinterlacer) which produced a "3+2repeats" same rate (29.97fps) pattern which also looks decent on TV.

At the end, 1) i.e. leaving it interlaced and let the TV take care of the rest looks best for me.

(I found that the "IVTC sources with 3:2 pulldown" had no effect on the script)

I understand that restoring a 23.976fps progressive stream with "telecide().tdecimate()" or similar changes the framrate which may have implications on audio sync and pitch (?).

Last edited by Sharc; 6th March 2014 at 11:59.
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Old 6th March 2014, 15:16   #19493  |  Link
jdobbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharc View Post
Yep, you are right.
Actually I made 2 mistakes :
1) When leaving it as interlaced and watching the result on PC, I had the deinterlacer of the SW player disabled, hence the blended/combed frames. The TV applies its deinterlacer on material which is flagged as interlaced, and the result looks good on TV. The TV seems to bob to 60fps.
2) When I selected "Use DEINTERLACER on interlaced sources" I had -- from a previous test -- "DEINTERLACER_TYPE=4" in the .ini which removed the deinterlacer from the script; therefore the ugly result. Leaving the "DEINTERLACER TYPE= " alone I get a "3+2blended" same rate (29.97fps) pattern which also looks ok on TV.
Eventually I tried "DEINTERLACER_TYPE=3" (smoothdeinterlacer) which produced a "3+2repeats" same rate (29.97fps) pattern which also looks decent on TV.

At the end, 1) i.e. leaving it interlaced and let the TV take care of the rest looks best for me.

(I found that the "IVTC sources with 3:2 pulldown" had no effect on the script)

I understand that restoring a 23.976fps progressive stream with "telecide().tdecimate()" or similar changes the framrate which may have implications on audio sync and pitch (?).
If the source shows symptoms of telecining -- but wouldn't IVTC it is probably hard-telecined. But that would be unusual for a 1080 source. I don't think I've seen one yet. The only way to get around that would be for me to add a hidden option similar to IVTC_480i that would do the same on 1080 sources. It's risky, though, as leaving it on can make a mess of a source that isn't hard-telecined. It's probably best to just deinterlace it.

Since interlaced sources are native to the TV (HDTV uses 1080i), it's likely that it didn't need to deinterlace it. It just presents the two interlaced pictures at 60 fields per second. That is, of course, unless you have your player set to output 1080p instead.
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Last edited by jdobbs; 6th March 2014 at 15:22.
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Old 6th March 2014, 18:18   #19494  |  Link
DoctorM
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I previously had a bonus feature from a DVD. It was mixed frame rate but largely 23.976 with soft telecine flags. I couldn't find any combination of settings that worked well in BDRB. The closest was the defaults that gave me 29,97p output. I ended up doing it manually and it needed to honor pulldown flags and be IVTC'd to get to 24p.
If I missed a setting there I'd like to know what.
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Old 6th March 2014, 21:20   #19495  |  Link
mparade
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post
@Peter_A - Turn the clock back on your PC to Feb of this year and you can test 45.05 (it's what I'm doing right now).
I do agree, I've seen that recent builds calculate: Full BD with all audio / Target Size = Compression Ratio.
No deduction are made for stripped or compressed tracks.

It my be a per PC issue of some sort, otherwise a lot of people should be reporting undersized discs.
This "turn the clock back" idea and using 45.05 instead of the current one seems to be working on my "issue with only one BD" also.

Thank you.
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Old 6th March 2014, 22:14   #19496  |  Link
Sharc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
If the source shows symptoms of telecining -- but wouldn't IVTC it is probably hard-telecined. But that would be unusual for a 1080 source. I don't think I've seen one yet. The only way to get around that would be for me to add a hidden option similar to IVTC_480i that would do the same on 1080 sources. It's risky, though, as leaving it on can make a mess of a source that isn't hard-telecined. It's probably best to just deinterlace it.

Since interlaced sources are native to the TV (HDTV uses 1080i), it's likely that it didn't need to deinterlace it. It just presents the two interlaced pictures at 60 fields per second. That is, of course, unless you have your player set to output 1080p instead.
The 29.97fps Extra actually has sections with progressive video (interviews) encoded interlaced as per blu-ray standard, followed by hard telecined snippets of the feature (which originally is 23.976fps). As you mention, the TV seems to present everything at 60fps, so encoding as interlaced gives good results.
For playback via projector or PC deinterlacing seems to be the better choice.
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Old 6th March 2014, 22:31   #19497  |  Link
Sharc
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I still do have a problem with Quick-Play backup and edited menus. I have 2 episodes and 1 extra. The Quick-Menu looks ok on the TV, but when I select any one of the episodes the movie does not start but the TV screen turns black with "no video signal" message after some time. When I select the Extra, the Extra playback starts as expected. Weird. I still try to figure out if it depends on a particular workflow.
As a workaround I can import the already encoded disc, check/edit the Quick menu and re-author the disc.
Wild guess: Could the menu problem be related to the inclusion of the secondary video in the Quick-Play backup mode?

Last edited by Sharc; 7th March 2014 at 00:24.
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Old 7th March 2014, 09:42   #19498  |  Link
Sharc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharc View Post
I still do have a problem with Quick-Play backup and edited menus. I have 2 episodes and 1 extra. The Quick-Menu looks ok on the TV, but when I select any one of the episodes the movie does not start but the TV screen turns black with "no video signal" message after some time. When I select the Extra, the Extra playback starts as expected. Weird. I still try to figure out if it depends on a particular workflow.
As a workaround I can import the already encoded disc, check/edit the Quick menu and re-author the disc.
Wild guess: Could the menu problem be related to the inclusion of the secondary video in the Quick-Play backup mode?
Another observation:
1) The edited titles.inf which is written to the source folder
Code:
[Titles]
Title=GAME OF THRONES   Season 1 Disk 2
Threshold=32400000
00073=Episode 3 [00:57:14.097]
00074=Episode 4 [00:55:37.792]
00075=Episode 5 [00:54:16.503]
[Position]
00073=1
00074=2
00075=3
[Selected]
00073=-1
00074=-1
00075=-1
2) The titles.inf which is written to the target folder folder
Code:
[Titles]
Title=GAME OF THRONES   Season 1 Disk 2
00001=Episode 3 [00:57:14.097]
00002=Episode 4 [00:55:37.792]
00003=Episode 5 [00:54:16.503]
i.e. the sections [Position] and [Selected] are missing on the target. I then can playback the Title 00003=Episode 5. Selection of 00001 or 00002 turns the TV screen black and the player idles.

3) When I now IMPORT this non-working disc, a complete titles.inf (same as 1) with all sections will be created, which eventually works.

Could 2) be the reason for the Quick-Play failure?
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Old 8th March 2014, 06:50   #19499  |  Link
D-Train61
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Audio encoding issues

Hi JDobbs,
I just downloaded and am running the latest version of your program, 0.46.14 and I'm familiar with your software and have made backups of my Blu-Rays in the past just fine but today I'm trying to backup "The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey", output size=BD25, and as soon as it starts I get the following error message:
PHASE ONE, Encoding
- [21:41:52] Processing: VID_00001 (1 of 3)
- [21:41:52] Extracting A/V streams [VID_00001]
- Error in attempt to extract audio/subs.
- Bitstream exception Unknown exception. It does not have to be! Please contact application support team for more information.
[21:41:56] - Failed to retrieve audio, aborted

So, since it says "It does not have to be! Please contact application support team for more information." that's what I'm doing. I went into my settings and tried changing my audio encoding options like checking the "use 448 kbs for AC3 encoding" and "Keep HD Audio for BD25" to no avail. I also selected only English as the subtitles to backup.
Any ideas on what I can try next?
Thanks!

Last edited by D-Train61; 8th March 2014 at 06:55.
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Old 8th March 2014, 07:36   #19500  |  Link
Sharc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Train61 View Post
Hi JDobbs,
I just downloaded and am running the latest version of your program, 0.46.14 and I'm familiar with your software and have made backups of my Blu-Rays in the past just fine but today I'm trying to backup "The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey", output size=BD25, and as soon as it starts I get the following error message:
PHASE ONE, Encoding
- [21:41:52] Processing: VID_00001 (1 of 3)
- [21:41:52] Extracting A/V streams [VID_00001]
- Error in attempt to extract audio/subs.
- Bitstream exception Unknown exception. It does not have to be! Please contact application support team for more information.
[21:41:56] - Failed to retrieve audio, aborted

So, since it says "It does not have to be! Please contact application support team for more information." that's what I'm doing. I went into my settings and tried changing my audio encoding options like checking the "use 448 kbs for AC3 encoding" and "Keep HD Audio for BD25" to no avail. I also selected only English as the subtitles to backup.
Any ideas on what I can try next?
Thanks!
This message comes from tsMuxer
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