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Old 15th April 2018, 09:56   #50281  |  Link
mrmojo666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclingo View Post
think i'm getting somewhere with this, I just installed a really ancient AMD driver and it fixed it (16.8.1 however before you all tell me its a driver issue, I installed my current driver again and it was still fixed on 18.2.2 which was previously broken, so its driver related but that isnt the full story, could be a driver version had broken something in my setup which the older driver fixed. Colours are now totally fine with calibration off IN MADVR, still dont understand why EVR renderer was outputting correct colours and MADVR not though.

there is a caveat to this though, I tried this driver before and it didnt fix it, however I was using an RX550 then, ive recently upgraded to a an RX460 which is an older generation but faster card.
Hi, my fault, i didn't remember that issue appears only when i play <=24 fps with output 10bit, so it is still happening when i wrote that is not happing I tested with tv progrm that is 50i (so output is 10bit).....
i can say that is happening with dx11 + FSE 10bit.

what I miss if i use windows instead of FSE. what have more FSE from windowed ?

If i want to try to get back to 16.8.1, i need to clean in some way or i can just uninstall 18.3.4, install 16.81 then upgrade to 18.3.4 ?

THank you
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Old 15th April 2018, 11:48   #50282  |  Link
mclingo
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where its always best to use DDU cleaner when installing drivers for problems I didnt on this occasion. I had already jumped from 18.3.4 to 18.2.2 so I jumped to 16.8.1 where it was fixed and then back to 18.2.2 and it remained fixed. What I should do really is jump back to 18.3.4 but 18.3xxx drivers cause my PC to randomly hang, oddly mainly when I'm connecting to it via RDP and not actually using the GFX card, I think its crashing when it goes into lower power mode.

my system is now back to being stable again with 18.2.2, no crashes, no HDMI loss on stop, D3D all working, HDR working. i've moved back to using MPC and KODI DS refesh rate changing, MADVR refresh rate changing still causes HDMI loss for me on 3D movie stop but its been written off as a driver issue which I guess it could be.
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Old 15th April 2018, 13:33   #50283  |  Link
Manni
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Quick update on nVidia drivers status:

Tested with 1080ti and CP set to 4K23 RGB 4:4:4 12bits full, display is a JVC RS500 set to HDMI Standard (levels limited), so MadVR’s levels normally set to limited (16-235). I’m using D3D11 copyback as I need the auto aspect ratio / zoom (disabled in native/auto). Of course YMMV. Full config described in sig.

- All drivers work in 3D here but batch files are needed to set 3D mode before playback. This can be done with the command file using profiles. Otherwise registry changes do not stick. I need FSE to get 3D to work, I know others don’t but I have no idea why. Sadly I get a frame drop every 3mn or so in 3D, so far from ideal.
- Last driver fully working here for both SDR and HDR is 385.28. I thought there was a bug in Atmos with this driver (SBs sent to SRs) but it looks like it was an OS issue, I couldn’t reproduce it with Win 10 pro X64 build 1709. So as far as I can see it’s the last fully working driver.
- All drivers post 385.28 prevent from selecting 12bits when a custom mode is selected. If selecting 12bits from a standard mode, the bit depth option is greyed out when a custom mode is selected but the correct bit depth is applied (12bits up to 30p, 8bits above). This is done automatically, and it sticks here. So a very minor issue once you know the workaround. I use a MadVR custom mode that gives more than one hour between each drop in 4K23. I upscale everything to 4K (except 3D) so 1080p not tested (others have issues with 1080p apparently).
- All drivers from 390.65 are breaking compatibility with Asio4all and most Asio drivers. Solution is to use FlexAsio.
- 390.65 has a levels issue. Despite the fact that the GPU is set to full and my display is set to limited, I have to set MadVr to full (0-255) to get the correct levels. No idea why. Using MadLevelstweak.exe makes no difference. There doesn’t seem to be a downside, although having MadVR set to 0-255 when the display expects limited levels is clearly incorrect (in theory). But that’s the only way to get the correct levels with 390.65.
- All 391.xx drivers have borked levels, at least here with my display. I urge you to check your levels both in SDR and HDR if you’re using any of these. Changing MadVR’s levels to 0-255 or 16-235 makes no difference. Using MadLevelsTweaker.exe doesn’t help. The levels are borked, I couldn’t find to get them right without raising the black levels in HDR, even when setting the display in enhanced mode.
- All drivers from 385.28 (I didn’t try earlier) have minor banding in HDR passthrough mode with 10bits in windowed mode. This minor banding goes away using pixel shader or FSE. The banding seems less pronounced when using 0-255 in MadVR. So if using passthrough in 10bits mode, it’s recommended to set it to 8bits in MadVR. This adds a minor amount of noise, but it’s less visible than the banding.

So if you’re a gamer and need a fairly recent driver, 390.65 is the least compromised recent driver.

If you’re not a gamer or want Asio4all, then 385.28 is the last fully working option.

Of course, this is here, in my setup, as described. This might not be true for others, whether the setup is the same or not, but I thought posting this might be helpful.

Not related to nVidia drivers, but as a new build is about to be released with improved HDR to SDR conversion, there seems to be a bug in pixel shader when BT2390 is selected along with xysubfilter subtitles in MPC-BE. The brightness level switches if “calculate average nits” is selected. Disabling “calculate average nits”, selecting the internal sub renderer in MPC-BE, or selecting HDR passthrough or an Arve curve instead of BT2390 resolves the issue. Madshi wasn’t able to reproduce, so if anyone experiences this bug with the upcoming MadVR release please let us know. A good test for this is the very beginning of The Revenant. The brightness shifts when the first subtitle appears during the opening pan shot.
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Last edited by Manni; 20th April 2018 at 09:26.
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Old 15th April 2018, 13:54   #50284  |  Link
oldpainlesskodi
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@Manni - I feel your pain...been there!

Have you tried 382.53? With this driver you can select 12 or 8 bit in custom modes. Also, the levels are correct, Atmos works as it should as does HDR switching.

I went one step further and completely disabled the stupid sRGB.icc profile from my device and disabled WindowsColorSystem permanently from starting via Task Scheduler - on my set up, the difference is night and day.

K

Last edited by oldpainlesskodi; 15th April 2018 at 14:09.
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Old 15th April 2018, 15:19   #50285  |  Link
Manni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldpainlesskodi View Post
@Manni - I feel your pain...been there!

Have you tried 382.53? With this driver you can select 12 or 8 bit in custom modes. Also, the levels are correct, Atmos works as it should as does HDR switching.

I went one step further and completely disabled the stupid sRGB.icc profile from my device and disabled WindowsColorSystem permanently from starting via Task Scheduler - on my set up, the difference is night and day.

K
Thanks but there is no pain. I only thought I'd share my findings in case it helps others.

385.28 work just as well as 382.53 here, so I don't see any reason to go back further.
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Old 15th April 2018, 15:32   #50286  |  Link
oldpainlesskodi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni View Post
Thanks but there is no pain. I only thought I'd share my findings in case it helps others.

385.28 work just as well as 382.53 here, so I don't see any reason to go back further.
Me too, but ok.
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Old 15th April 2018, 15:35   #50287  |  Link
brazen1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni View Post
All drivers work in 3D here but batch files are needed to set 3D mode before playback. This can be done with the command file using profiles. Otherwise registry changes do not stick.
I use batch files that launch via KODI using its playercorefactory.xml feature. Of course, they are only going to launch using KODI. Running naked, Windows Explorer for example, I need to manually engage nvstlink.exe (aka stereoscopic in NCP) before 3D playback.

You write you are launching batch files with a command file using profiles. I have no idea what this means but interests me since I assume these .bats are launching from madVR potentially providing another avenue to engage NCP stereoscopic than the KODI playercorefactory.xml keeping everything automated.

Please, please, be kind enough to elaborate how you do this in detail as if explaining to a 4 year old so I have a perfect understanding.
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Old 15th April 2018, 15:45   #50288  |  Link
brazen1
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RE: which NVidia drivers and why, here is copy paste from where I originally posted this a couple weeks ago, fwiw. You may not be aware of the audio problem I encountered. I'm using 385.69 but as Manni pointed out, custom modes with 12bit does not work so I too will probably revert to 385.28. A shame we have to use drivers this old.

I have discovered what I assume is another bug introduced by NVidia drivers. Yesterday I decided to work it out. The problem:

Right click your volume icon with your AVR OFF or in standby using passthrough. It should be setup for Stereo.
Now, turn your AVR ON. It should be setup for 5.1 or 7.1 etc. (What ever you use during video playback)
This should automate between stereo and 7.1 (for example) as you toggle your AVR off and on. If it doesn't, you will have to manually change it. If you forget, high bitrate audios will malfunction (audio filter errors) during video playback mode and/or youtube videos from desktop mode will not start.

Not knowing if this was associated with a Windows update or something else, I decided to install NVidia drivers working backwards to rule them out as the culprit or find a working driver to identify where the problem originated.
Eventually the audio setup started working as intended and I've concluded it is an NVidia driver issue. Here's what I installed and concluded using DDU between installs:

391.35-desktop-win10-64bit-international-whql.exe = Audio problem.
391.24-desktop-win10-64bit-international-whql.exe = Audio problem.
391.01-desktop-win10-64bit-international-whql.exe = Audio problem.
390.65-desktop-win10-64bit-international-whql.exe = Audio problem. This is the driver the audio problem was introduced.
All of these drivers also cannot retain a 12bit setting after a reboot but you should be using 8bit anyway since 12bit introduces banding unless your display handles 12bit native properly.

388.59-desktop-win10-64bit-international-whql.exe = Does not turn HDR off after HDR playback but Audio switching problem is not present. This was the last good driver for audio switching.
387.92-desktop-win10-64bit-international-rs3-whql.exe = Does not turn HDR on prior to HDR playback.
385.69-desktop-win10-64bit-international-whql.exe = Working properly for HDR and Audio switching but any mouse movement turns 3D into 2D briefly. This is the driver I have reverted to. This also means I will need to use FSE.
385.28-desktop-win10-64bit-international-whql.exe = Working properly for HDR and Audio switching.
These drivers survive a reboot when using 12bit but again, you should be using 8bit unless your display handles 12bit native properly.

Understanding Nvidia has worked out many bugs, it now has these:

No 10bit selection when using RGB.
No auto switch from stereo to multiple speaker setup in Windows Audio considering if AVR state is On or Off.
Audio Video sync for common refresh rates such as 23.976 f/ps leads to dropped frames without creating custom timings.
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Last edited by brazen1; 16th April 2018 at 01:33.
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Old 15th April 2018, 16:37   #50289  |  Link
Sunset1982
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I maybe found a bug today. After I exchanged my GPU I tried to lower the luma settings from NGUSharp Very High to Mid and nothing happened. I can change it to NGUStandard mid or high, but within NGUSharp I can't change anything.

Is this a known bug madshi?
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Old 15th April 2018, 16:49   #50290  |  Link
Warner306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunset1982 View Post
I maybe found a bug today. After I exchanged my GPU I tried to lower the luma settings from NGUSharp Very High to Mid and nothing happened. I can change it to NGUStandard mid or high, but within NGUSharp I can't change anything.

Is this a known bug madshi?
This happened to me once. I had to reset madVR settings.
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Old 15th April 2018, 22:32   #50291  |  Link
Manni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
You write you are launching batch files with a command file using profiles. I have no idea what this means but interests me since I assume these .bats are launching from madVR potentially providing another avenue to engage NCP stereoscopic than the KODI playercorefactory.xml keeping everything automated.

Please, please, be kind enough to elaborate how you do this in detail as if explaining to a 4 year old so I have a perfect understanding.
Profiles are explained in the third post of this thread in detail, so please read this first and ask any questions not answered there. I don't have the time or the inclination to explain this as if to a 4 year old, maybe someone else will

Once you have created a profile that tests for 3D, in the 3D profile (for example in processing) you simply specify the name of your batch file to enable 3D in the field "command line to execute when this profile is activated".

Provided your profiles are well defined, the batch file will be launched every time 3D content is played.

Here is my condition for my profiles in processing:

if (3D) "3D"
else if (srcWidth <= 720) and (srcHeight <= 576)"SD"
else if (srcWidth <= 1280) and (srcHeight <= 720)"HD"
else if (srcWidth <= 1920) and (srcHeight <= 1080)"FHD"
else if (srcWidth <= 3840) and (srcHeight <= 2160)"UHD"
else "4K"

When the 3D profile is activated, it launches my batch file enabling 3D.

Here is the content of my file:

Code:
REM Necessary header for importing .reg file.
> "%temp%\Update3DSettings.reg" ECHO Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00
>> "%temp%\Update3DSettings.reg" ECHO.

REM Decide which CPU architecture- to set the proper registry keys for x86 and x64.
REM Using GOTO instead of IF THEN ELSE because of better compatibility.
REM Assume x86 as the architecture.
SET "KEY=[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\NVIDIA Corporation\Global\Stereo3D]"
REM Reset the key if that's not right.
IF "%PROCESSOR_ARCHITECTURE%"=="x86"  GOTO EchoKey
SET "KEY=[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\NVIDIA Corporation\Global\Stereo3D]"
:EchoKey
>> "%temp%\Update3DSettings.reg" ECHO %KEY%

REM Now the series of registry dwords for that \Stereo3D key.
REM Let's auto-enable 3D, without going through the test.
REM Bypass the Medical Test
>> "%temp%\Update3DSettings.reg" ECHO "StereoVisionConfirmed"=dword:00000001
REM Reset from Discover
>> "%temp%\Update3DSettings.reg" ECHO "StereoViewerType"=dword:00000001

REM Now let's import registry file
REM /s is used to avoid an "Are you sure" prompt
regedit.exe /s "%temp%\Update3DSettings.reg"

REM -- No registry key for Enable stereoscopic 3D checkbox, so we'll directly
REM  call the activation tool.  Change path if this is not correct.
REM  We call for both 32 bit and 64 bit. If one fails it's not a problem.
CALL "C:\Program Files\NVIDIA Corporation\3D Vision\nvstlink.exe" /enable
CALL "C:\Program Files (x86)\NVIDIA Corporation\3D Vision\nvstlink.exe" /enable
Quote:
Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
All of these drivers also cannot retain a 12bit setting after a reboot but you should be using 8bit anyway since 12bit introduces banding.
This isn't true. 12bits only introduces banding in HDR passthrough using Windows 10 in windowed mode, at least here. There is no banding in 12bits if you use FSE with passthrough, or if you use pixel shader (full screen windowed mode or FSE) instead of passthrough.

This is with a display able to handle 12bits of course. If your display doesn't support 12bits, then you can have banding in 12bits and will have to use 8bits in that case.

I can confirm that the JVC projectors from 2015 (so starting with RS400/500/600/5000/7000/9000) support 12bits natively from inputs to panels and that there is no banding in 12bits provided you use FSE if HDR passthrough, or pixel shader in either FSE or full screen windowed.
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Last edited by Manni; 15th April 2018 at 22:38.
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Old 16th April 2018, 01:30   #50292  |  Link
brazen1
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Thank you for sharing. This is very useful info encouraging me to make some changes and experiment.

Yes, I understand native 12bit displays do not need to use RGB 8bit (since RGB 10bit is not offered) to avoid banding. When madshi wrote to use 8bit, I was only focusing on 10bit native displays that do not handle 12bit proper enough to dither down to 10bit. My bad. I'll edit appropriately.
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Old 16th April 2018, 04:12   #50293  |  Link
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because your Tv doesn't handle 12 bit correctly doesn't many other have the same problem.

i'm even at a point that i never saw a SDR Tv with 12 input problem yet.

not dithering 12 bit down to 10 bit shouldn't show a terrible banding especial if the real image is dithered 10 bit. truncated could even be perfect for such a situation.

and the real known issue is with HDR and 10 bit windowed mode only. which is a clear driver problem not a display problem.
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Old 16th April 2018, 12:29   #50294  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
This happened to me once. I had to reset madVR settings.
Thx, I will try to reset the settings.
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Old 16th April 2018, 17:39   #50295  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
There is a difference between the frame rate of the video and the refresh rate of the display. madVR does not convert a 24 fps source to 60 fps; it feeds it to the display with 3/2 pulldown, so it is still rendering a 24 fps image.

The 60 fps video is native 60 fps. That is your problem. A new frame is drawn every 16.68ms, so your render times have to be very fast. If you took a native 24 fps source (like most real UHD material), a new frame is drawn every 41.71ms, so your total render times could be as high as 35-37ms, which is much higher than 16.68ms. This gives you more headroom for more demanding settings.

If you are using Error Diffusion dithering with 4K content, switch to Ordered. This can eat up a lot of performance for little gain; especially, if you are outputting at 10-bits from madVR.
Ok, makes sense and thank you for responding.

Question: Since I am running my GPU at 2160p60, Full RGB 4:4:4 8-bit. Should I be telling MadVR that my display's native bitdepth is 8-bit or 10bits (or higher)?

Is it possible that my render time is higher than it could be because I have 10 bit (or higher) selected in MadVR despite MadVR dithering 12-bit down to 8-bit?
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Old 16th April 2018, 18:02   #50296  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theDongerr View Post
Question: Since I am running my GPU at 2160p60, Full RGB 4:4:4 8-bit. Should I be telling MadVR that my display's native bitdepth is 8-bit or 10bits (or higher)?
8-bit. If you send your GPU >8-bit it simply dithers it to 8-bit so you get two dithering steps, madVR dithers to 10-bit then the GPU dithers that to 8-bit. madVR's dithering is higher quality and two dithering steps adds more noise than needed if you can do the bit depth conversion in one step.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theDongerr View Post
Is it possible that my render time is higher than it could be because I have 10 bit (or higher) selected in MadVR despite MadVR dithering 12-bit down to 8-bit?
No, dithering to 10 bit is not any harder than dithering to 8-bit. madVR cannot dither to >10 bit, it is always dithering from its internal 16 bit data to 10 or few bits. madVR always does its dithering in one step at the end of the rendering pipeline, if it outputs 8 bit it always dithers directly to 8 bit.
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Old 17th April 2018, 00:13   #50297  |  Link
maxkolonko123
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I've noticed something really odd tonight, when playing movie i don't see any drop frames in madvr OSD, but when then credits shows up dropped frames are increasing really quick and max stats rendering goes really high too(like from 10ms to 45ms)... even the madvr shows 1 frame drop every 1h07min. I will try to record it tomorrow so you can see yourself how madvr behave. Movie is called "Better Watch Out" and the credits are with strong red and yellow colours ( dont know if this even matter though )
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Old 17th April 2018, 01:04   #50298  |  Link
Warner306
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This is most likely a fault with the file or the way the media player handles the file. Try another file. If it persists, try another media player.
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Old 17th April 2018, 03:02   #50299  |  Link
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is a 3d LUT in use?
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Old 17th April 2018, 07:53   #50300  |  Link
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Anything we know is going to be released at 0.92.13 ?
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