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Old 8th December 2019, 05:48   #29041  |  Link
MrVideo
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@Alleycat: Are the original BD discs dual layer 50GB? If so, are you trying to get each one to fit on a 25GB disc?
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Old 8th December 2019, 22:08   #29042  |  Link
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Yes, the 3 original discs are BD50. I was simply creating a backup of each onto 3 separate 25GB discs. The SD video files inside the m2ts containers are mpeg-2.
When starting the x264 encoder, the first line shows "lav [info]: 720x480i 32:27 @ 30000/1001 fps (cfr)". If you import the same file into Handbrake, the dimensions tab shows: "Source 720x480, PAR 32/27".
Those references to 32:27 made me suspect the black bars on the BDRB copy were caused by the SAR 40:33 in BDRB's x264 command line. I found that if I used SAR 32:27, or if I just omitted the SAR parameter completely, both scenarios produced video identical to the source, with no black bars.
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Old 9th December 2019, 03:09   #29043  |  Link
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The SAR of 40:33 is based upon a 704x480 video. With NTSC analog conversion to digital, 8 pixels are removed from each side of the 720 video to get you the 704 video. But, if the 16 total pixels are not removed, you end up with the situation you found yourself in. You could have added an AVISynth plugin command to crop 8 pixels off each side and you should have come up with the correct result [crop(8,0,-8,0)].

The reason for doing the cropping is that in correctly digitized video, there are about 8 pixels of vertical black on each side of the video. By removing it, you get video out to each side, without any annoying vertical black bars.
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Old 11th December 2019, 03:27   #29044  |  Link
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Thanks for your suggestion re cropping. I gave it a try and found that it did indeed remove the bars. The bars had been at the top and bottom, not the sides, but cropping 8 pixels from each side made them disappear. Compared with the original, the height of the picture was now the same, with no part of the original frame missing. The width of the picture was very slightly stretched, with a very small part of each side cropped. Viewed in isolation, I probably would not have noticed, so that's preferable to the black bars.

What I can't figure out is this: If I get BD-RB to convert it from SD to 1080, there are no bars, and nothing is cropped from the edges.

Also, given that the source disc has the SAR of 32:27, does that mean the original BD is not compliant? Or it is allowed for MPEG-2 on BD but not AVC?
That may explain why they stuck with MPEG-2 coding on the original.
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Old 11th December 2019, 04:50   #29045  |  Link
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The 704x480 is really only for DVDs. The BD spec only has 720x480, which would only mean supporting 32:27 (for 16:9 video). No idea why BDRB was not getting it right. Doing the cropping trick does end up distorting the image, as you noted.

The original BDs are compliant. The BD spec allows for MPEG-2/AVC/VC1 as codecs for 720x480 video.

JDobbs is going to have to respond as to what is happening.

EDIT: Add "IMPORT_OVERSCAN=0" to the options file. Don't do the cropping. I'm curious as to what this does.
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Old 12th December 2019, 01:54   #29046  |  Link
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The BD spec only has 720x480, which would only mean supporting 32:27 (for 16:9 video).
Maybe I misunderstood what you're saying? The BD Spec supports 4:3 video in 720x480. 720x480 at 4:3 is mentioned more times than I can even reference. For example, see page 1-147, Table 5-17 of the spec, and look under primary video formats. Adjusting for overscan is normal for 720x480 sources. Often people just forget about it and leave the aspect slightly stretched (by removing the overscan areas).

I'd have to see the source to decide what is going on in Alleycat's case. The part about bars being at the top and bottom (rather than the sides) throws me. Overscan adjustments should only apply to the sides??? I guess I need to go back and read his posts again.

I can tell you that I, for one, am happy to see the 1:1 ratios used in HD and UHD. Having to adjust for the leftovers from analog television (like overscan) is a real pain. These days trying to decide whether to adjust for overscan depends on what mood the original author was in at the time the disc was created. Many MKV files out there that hold old TV shows, for example, typically just resize the original 720x480 sources (minus overscan) to 640x480 with a 1:1 ratio (which means they are stretched slightly). But that depends on what the person doing the encoding knew or didn't know about video.

It's nothing if not confusing.
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Last edited by jdobbs; 12th December 2019 at 02:53.
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Old 12th December 2019, 05:34   #29047  |  Link
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@ Mr. Video: I tried adding IMPORT_OVERSCAN=0 to the ini file, but it made no difference. I was using the full backup mode, so maybe that function only operates when using the import mode.

@jdobbs: In my fist post I noticed BD-RB was re-encoding my disc with an SAR of 40:33 in X264, but the original has an SAR of 32:27, due to the video being in MPEG-2 blu-ray.

Would the problem not be solved by removing the --SAR X:X from the X264 command line when full back up mode is used? As the source is already a blu-ray, the original SAR must be compliant, so the BD-RB copy need not be any different?
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Old 12th December 2019, 09:33   #29048  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
Maybe I misunderstood what you're saying? The BD Spec supports 4:3 video in 720x480.
We were discussing the OP's original files, which are 16:9 720x480, which only has the one SAR. No discussion of 4:3 video.
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Old 12th December 2019, 09:34   #29049  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Alleycat View Post
@ Mr. Video: I tried adding IMPORT_OVERSCAN=0 to the ini file, but it made no difference. I was using the full backup mode, so maybe that function only operates when using the import mode.
It was worth a try. No idea what JDobbs intended that option for.
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Old 12th December 2019, 12:05   #29050  |  Link
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@Alleycat
Can you upload a sample of a few seconds duration of the original file?
Without a sample all the discussions remain speculative.
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Old 13th December 2019, 08:34   #29051  |  Link
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Originally Posted by MrVideo View Post
Well, that explains it. Many of the groups have it in their little heads that removing the letterbox bars from widescreen videos will reduce the file size. While it is true that it will, it obviously causes issues like this.

If I play a MKV file thru my Samsung and if it is 1920x800, the player will add the letterbox bars. But, if I author the file onto a BD, the player will vertically expand the video to fill the screen. Those cropped videos are a PITA.
Fully agree... Same here with my OPPO. I've Always thought it was nonsense removing the black bars, it doesn't save that much space and automatically makes it noncompliant. Stupid...
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Old 13th December 2019, 19:57   #29052  |  Link
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Im trying to backup for the first time bluray 4k

My pc is
Win10 64bit
Intel i7 2.94ghz 4core(i Think)
6 gb ram

If i make backup of bluray 2k in bd25 is necessary 5 hours about

In my first 4k bluray backup time estimated from 55gb to 25gb in two pass is 40 hours
0.95 fps

Im trying using " x264 internal LAVF for frame serving"
Is it correct ?
40 hours for 4k backup ?
Thank to all

Last edited by gamete; 13th December 2019 at 20:17.
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Old 14th December 2019, 15:17   #29053  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamete View Post
Im trying to backup for the first time bluray 4k

My pc is
Win10 64bit
Intel i7 2.94ghz 4core(i Think)
6 gb ram

If i make backup of bluray 2k in bd25 is necessary 5 hours about

In my first 4k bluray backup time estimated from 55gb to 25gb in two pass is 40 hours
0.95 fps

Im trying using " x264 internal LAVF for frame serving"
Is it correct ?
40 hours for 4k backup ?
Thank to all
Same here...
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Old 14th December 2019, 17:19   #29054  |  Link
jdobbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamete View Post
Im trying to backup for the first time bluray 4k

My pc is
Win10 64bit
Intel i7 2.94ghz 4core(i Think)
6 gb ram

If i make backup of bluray 2k in bd25 is necessary 5 hours about

In my first 4k bluray backup time estimated from 55gb to 25gb in two pass is 40 hours
0.95 fps

Im trying using " x264 internal LAVF for frame serving"
Is it correct ?
40 hours for 4k backup ?
Thank to all
I'd recommend you set your encoder to "Very Good (Fast)" and "One Pass (ABR) Encoding" if you want to speed up encoding. On my system (which is pretty old) it usually takes about 10-12 hours with that setting (I typically get 4 - 4.5 fps). Honestly, there is plenty of room on a 25GB disc even for UHD, and you don't need higher settings. Of course people have different opinions about that. But, I've done tests using different CRF settings to get constant quality to see how much space is needed, and I rarely hit anywhere near 25GB even when using high quality CRF values. With that said, it depends a lot on how much content is on the disc you're backing up.

If encode time isn't important to you... then ignore what I just said and use a higher quality setting and/or keep two pass encoding enabled.

It makes no difference what frame-serving option you select when doing UHD. BD-RB is going to use FFMPEG anyway so that the HDR10 settings get passed along to the encoder. I'm assuming you are doing a full or movie-only backup? If so, X264 isn't used either. UHD on blu-ray requires HEVC (X265).
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Last edited by jdobbs; 14th December 2019 at 17:28.
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Old 14th December 2019, 19:25   #29055  |  Link
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Tks @jdobbs
Its my first 4k bluray backup
Only movie
For the next bluray ill try with your configuration
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Old 16th December 2019, 07:23   #29056  |  Link
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Hi, I wanted to know what is the recommended size to set in bdrebuilder for the bd50, thanks

Is the remaining time calculated based on the video compression percentage?

is it possible that a future version of bd rebuilder marks how many mb uses every single audio of the film?

Last edited by gamete; 16th December 2019 at 07:25.
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Old 16th December 2019, 13:44   #29057  |  Link
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Originally Posted by gamete View Post
Hi, I wanted to know what is the recommended size to set in bdrebuilder for the bd50, thanks

Is the remaining time calculated based on the video compression percentage?

is it possible that a future version of bd rebuilder marks how many mb uses every single audio of the film?
There is a default size already established for BD-50. Just select BD-50 from Settings/Output Options.

The remaining time is based on overall size and is updated based upon the speed up to that point.

The size of the audio is already taken into account when BD-RB calculates the bitrate needed for the video.
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Last edited by jdobbs; 17th December 2019 at 03:38.
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Old 16th December 2019, 21:45   #29058  |  Link
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Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
The size of the audio is already taken into account when BD-RB calculates the bitrate needed for the video.
I mean if there will be the possibility in new release of bdrebuilder to know the size each one of audio included in bluray

Tks

Last edited by jdobbs; 17th December 2019 at 03:38.
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Old 16th December 2019, 23:20   #29059  |  Link
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I mean if there will be the possibility in new release of bdrebuilder to know the size each one of audio included in bluray

Tks
I have no plans to show the sizes of each audio stream.

But, you can go into the working folder after BD-RB extracts them and see the sizes. Each of the audio streams are extracted into individual files. You they will look like this:

00000.track_4352.dts

The "00000" is the M2TS they came from and the 4352 is the PID. The extension will tell you the type of audio (like dts or ac3). The audio tracks will have PIDs in the range of 4352-4383 (depending on how many audio tracks exist).

Those are the original tracks. After processing you may see the new ones. They will start with the text "AUD", will also include the PID number, and will end with an extension like ".AC3"
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Old 16th December 2019, 23:22   #29060  |  Link
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Originally Posted by gamete View Post
I mean if there will be the possibility in new release of bdrebuilder to know the size each one of audio included in bluray
Why do you need to know that?
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