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Old 22nd October 2018, 21:39   #1  |  Link
Vitality
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Family Guy IVTC (19.181 FPS?)

I'm encoding Family Guy to x265 in StaxRip. Here's the VOB of my source (S01E03): https://hastebin.com/ucuwurebix.pl. When IVTC was applied to S01E01 the FPS was 23.976. But on S01E02 and afterwards if IVTC is applied, the frame rate becomes 19.181 FPS. So, should I IVTC? Will 19FPS cause bad motion? I am kinda confused here.

Last edited by Vitality; 22nd October 2018 at 21:42.
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Old 23rd October 2018, 06:06   #2  |  Link
hello_hello
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitality View Post
I'm encoding Family Guy to x265 in StaxRip. Here's the VOB of my source (S01E03): https://hastebin.com/ucuwurebix.pl. When IVTC was applied to S01E01 the FPS was 23.976. But on S01E02 and afterwards if IVTC is applied, the frame rate becomes 19.181 FPS. So, should I IVTC? Will 19FPS cause bad motion? I am kinda confused here.
Telecine (or pulldown) is a way of increasing the (almost) film frame rate of 23.976fps to 29.970fps by repeating fields.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-two_pull_down
It can be encoded that way (hard-telecine), or it can be encoded at 23.976fps and a DVD player would apply the pulldown on playback (soft telecine). DVDs were originally designed to be displayed on an interlaced display at 29.970fps, or more correctly, at 59.940 "fields" per second. When it's encoded or decoded with pulldown, IVTC reverses the process to give you the original 23.976 progressive video.

If it's 100% soft-telecine, it can simply be decoded at 23.976fps, ignoring the repeat field flags that'd normally cause pulldown to be applied on playback, so no, you wouldn't apply IVTC.

That's assuming it is 100% soft telecine, which in your case it appears to be. DVDs can be a mixture of soft telecine, hard telecine and interlaced video. It's not unusual for an episode of a TV show to contain a mixture of all three, in which case after applying IVTC to the telecined sections, and de-interlacing the interlaced sections, it'd normally be converted to a common frame rate. For example, if it's mostly progressive "film", the TIVTC plugin can apply IVTC to the "film" sections, de-interlace any video sections to 29.970fps, and then convert them from 29.970fps to 23.976fps by dropping/blending frames if it's configured correctly. I don't use StaxRip so I don't know how you'd go about determining the source type correctly or configuring TIVTC.

It's also not unusual for one episode to be encoded with pulldown, or a mixture of hard and soft pulldown and video sections, while another episode is different.

Last edited by hello_hello; 23rd October 2018 at 06:12.
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Old 23rd October 2018, 08:14   #3  |  Link
manono
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitality View Post
I'm encoding Family Guy to x265 in StaxRip. Here's the VOB of my source (S01E03):
All I see when clicking the link is a bunch of text. Did I misunderstand you, or did I do something wrong to get the VOB? Please upload a portion of a real VOB or an M2V extracted from that VOB. DGIndex can easily extract a 10 second or so piece from the VOB. If that text file is all there is so far then, 1) it's not a VOB, and 2) it's less than useless for determining what you have and how to treat it.

The way you get 19.181fps is to 1) wrongly set the Field Operation of DGIndex to Forced Film (which gives 23.976fps already) followed by applying an IVTC to that. Depending on your source, you might do one or the other, but not both. If intending to perform an IVTC you set the Field Operation for "Honor Pulldown Flags" which gives you a 29.97fps D2V project file, followed by performing the IVTC on that.

If the episode is 100% film as determined by DGIndex, you can set the field order to "Forced Film", save the D2V project file, and you're done. No IVTC needed.

Last edited by manono; 23rd October 2018 at 08:18.
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Old 23rd October 2018, 14:22   #4  |  Link
Sharc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitality View Post
I'm encoding Family Guy to x265 in StaxRip. Here's the VOB of my source (S01E03): https://hastebin.com/ucuwurebix.pl. When IVTC was applied to S01E01 the FPS was 23.976. But on S01E02 and afterwards if IVTC is applied, the frame rate becomes 19.181 FPS. So, should I IVTC? Will 19FPS cause bad motion? I am kinda confused here.
I am not familiar with StaxRip and the tools which it uses, but if I remember correctly there is a caveat with TSMUXER:
When pulldown flags of clip 1 get removed the framerate is correctly set to 23.976fps. But when the next clip 2 is hard telecined i.e. no pulldown flags, then the framerate of TSMUXER has to be explicitly reset to 29.97 in the CLI. Otherwise it will assume by default that the underlying film is 19.181.
Simply said, it's safe to always set the correct framerate explicitly in TSMUXER.

Last edited by Sharc; 23rd October 2018 at 14:54. Reason: typo
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Old 23rd October 2018, 14:32   #5  |  Link
Vitality
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hello_hello View Post
Telecine (or pulldown) is a way of increasing the (almost) film frame rate of 23.976fps to 29.970fps by repeating fields.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-two_pull_down
It can be encoded that way (hard-telecine), or it can be encoded at 23.976fps and a DVD player would apply the pulldown on playback (soft telecine). DVDs were originally designed to be displayed on an interlaced display at 29.970fps, or more correctly, at 59.940 "fields" per second. When it's encoded or decoded with pulldown, IVTC reverses the process to give you the original 23.976 progressive video.

If it's 100% soft-telecine, it can simply be decoded at 23.976fps, ignoring the repeat field flags that'd normally cause pulldown to be applied on playback, so no, you wouldn't apply IVTC.

That's assuming it is 100% soft telecine, which in your case it appears to be. DVDs can be a mixture of soft telecine, hard telecine and interlaced video. It's not unusual for an episode of a TV show to contain a mixture of all three, in which case after applying IVTC to the telecined sections, and de-interlacing the interlaced sections, it'd normally be converted to a common frame rate. For example, if it's mostly progressive "film", the TIVTC plugin can apply IVTC to the "film" sections, de-interlace any video sections to 29.970fps, and then convert them from 29.970fps to 23.976fps by dropping/blending frames if it's configured correctly. I don't use StaxRip so I don't know how you'd go about determining the source type correctly or configuring TIVTC.

It's also not unusual for one episode to be encoded with pulldown, or a mixture of hard and soft pulldown and video sections, while another episode is different.
Sorry I mean it's the MediaInfo for the VOB.
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Old 23rd October 2018, 14:48   #6  |  Link
Vitality
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Here's the demuxed M2V: https://mega.nz/#!wsV1WArY!bTqpnt-9f...Yplq_fZ5V0fhfg

I had some trouble uploading to here so I decided to use MEGA
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Old 23rd October 2018, 17:24   #7  |  Link
videoh
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Thank you for the sample. It's a mix of hard and soft pulldown. You will have to make your project with Honor Pulldown Flags and then do external IVTC.

Last edited by videoh; 23rd October 2018 at 23:13.
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Old 23rd October 2018, 19:49   #8  |  Link
Vitality
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Originally Posted by videoh View Post
It's a mix of hard and soft pulldown. You will have to make your project with Honor Pulldown Flags and then do external IVTC.
How do I do that in StaxRip. And does external IVTC mean I'll have to encode 2 times? Won't that reduce video quality?

Last edited by Vitality; 23rd October 2018 at 21:49.
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Old 23rd October 2018, 22:36   #9  |  Link
manono
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Originally Posted by Vitality View Post
How do I do that in StaxRip
If you can't tell StaxRip to perform an IVTC, then surely it allows you to edit the AVS it creates. I don't use it so can't comment further.

Quote:
And does external IVTC mean I'll have to encode 2 times?
No, it's in the script. One encode only.

How to IVTC it correctly is shown in your other thread:

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...V-DVD-rip-help
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Old 24th October 2018, 01:38   #10  |  Link
Vitality
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Originally Posted by manono View Post
If you can't tell StaxRip to perform an IVTC, then surely it allows you to edit the AVS it creates. I don't use it so can't comment further.



No, it's in the script. One encode only.

How to IVTC it correctly is shown in your other thread:

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...V-DVD-rip-help
I was talking about "Honor Pulldown Flags", but Thank you with explaining external IVTC. Here's my AVS file so far:
Code:
LoadPlugin("J:\StaxRip-x64-1.7.0.0-stable\Apps\Plugins\avs\MPEG2DecPlus\MPEG2DecPlus64.dll")
MPEG2Source("K:\Family Guy S01\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_1_temp\VTS_01_1.d2v")
If I go to Apps > DGIndex in StaxRip, and then Video > Field Operation in DGIndex, "Honor Pulldown Flags" appears to be enabled. But in StaxRip the video says 23.976FPS. How can I apply the pulldown flags to make it 29.97 so I can then IVTC it back to 23.976?
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Old 24th October 2018, 02:35   #11  |  Link
videoh
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You should post your issue in the StaxRip support thread. Or at least change your title to include a reference to StaxRip.

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=172068

Last edited by videoh; 24th October 2018 at 02:39.
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Old 24th October 2018, 03:15   #12  |  Link
Vitality
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videoh View Post
You should post your issue in the StaxRip support thread. Or at least change your title to include a reference to StaxRip.

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=172068
I can't change my title
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Old 24th October 2018, 03:18   #13  |  Link
manono
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitality View Post
If I go to Apps > DGIndex in StaxRip, and then Video > Field Operation in DGIndex, "Honor Pulldown Flags" appears to be enabled. But in StaxRip the video says 23.976FPS
As I said, I don't use StaxRip, although it has a good reputation. You can confirm the field operation used by checking the framerate of the D2V. Open it in Notepad and see what it says beside "Frame_Rate".

What you're looking for prior to the IVTC is:

Field_Operation=0
Frame_Rate=29970 (30000/1001)


If it's really 23.976fps, then either the field operation used was "Forced Film", or it was "Honor Pulldown flags with an IVTC in the script. There are no other choices. If you inadvertently set it for Forced Film, go through the settings to find whatever you did that screwed it up.

Last edited by manono; 24th October 2018 at 03:21.
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Old 24th October 2018, 03:20   #14  |  Link
Vitality
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Originally Posted by manono View Post
As I said, I don't use StaxRip, although it has a good reputation. You can confirm the field operation used by checking the framerate of the D2V. Open it in Notepad and see what it says beside "Frame_Rate".

What you're looking for prior to the IVTC is:

Field_Operation=0
Frame_Rate=29970 (30000/1001)


If it's really 23.976fps, then either the field operation used was "Forced Film", or it was "Honor Pulldown flags with an IVTC in the script. There are no other choices.
Code:
Field_Operation=1
Frame_Rate=23976 (24000/1001)
in my D2V.
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Old 24th October 2018, 08:00   #15  |  Link
manono
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Make your own, then, with the Field Operaton set for "Honor Pulldown Flags". Except I think you might have messed up something in StaxRip. Or else StaxRip chooses what settings to use by just checking that first frame that says "Progressive". If so, that's a very bad idea.

You can even edit the D2V to make it 29.97fps, but ... never mind. Don't. Create a fresh one.
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Old 24th October 2018, 14:34   #16  |  Link
Vitality
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Originally Posted by manono View Post
Make your own, then, with the Field Operaton set for "Honor Pulldown Flags". Except I think you might have messed up something in StaxRip. Or else StaxRip chooses what settings to use by just checking that first frame that says "Progressive". If so, that's a very bad idea.

You can even edit the D2V to make it 29.97fps, but ... never mind. Don't. Create a fresh one.
So I created a new D2V in DGIndex with "Honor Pulldown Flags" enabled, and got this:
Code:
Field_Operation=0
Frame_Rate=29970 (30000/1001)
When I set the IVTC filter (replaced the IVTC code with your code you gave me on VideoHelp) the framerate didn't go to 19.181. It went to 23.976. I'm doing an "Ultra Fast" x264 encode to see if this actually worked.

EDIT: There appears to be interlacing still, even after IVTC was applied. I added QTGMC and there is some "minor" ghosting.

Last edited by Vitality; 24th October 2018 at 16:57.
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Old 24th October 2018, 18:57   #17  |  Link
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What appears to be de-interlacing problems is actually baked into the individual fields. The IVTC/De-interlacing isn't causing it. I don't know how you'd go about fixing it. Someone may have a clever idea.

DGDecode_mpeg2source("D:\VTS_01_1.demuxed.d2v")

A=last.SeparateFields().Info()
B=A.SelectOdd()
C=A.SelectEven()
StackVertical(C,B)

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Old 24th October 2018, 19:12   #18  |  Link
videoh
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That's why the IVTC filters do postprocessing.
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Old 24th October 2018, 19:42   #19  |  Link
Vitality
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Originally Posted by hello_hello View Post
What appears to be de-interlacing problems is actually baked into the individual fields. The IVTC/De-interlacing isn't causing it. I don't know how you'd go about fixing it. Someone may have a clever idea.

DGDecode_mpeg2source("D:\VTS_01_1.demuxed.d2v")

A=last.SeparateFields().Info()
B=A.SelectOdd()
C=A.SelectEven()
StackVertical(C,B)

I knew this DVD was trash
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Old 24th October 2018, 19:43   #20  |  Link
hello_hello
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This is the best I've managed to come up with. It's simple, but removes most of the blended chroma, or whatever the cause is. I'm not quite sure I understand why it works yet, but.... make sure DGDecode is honouring pulldown flags (outputting 29.970fps).

mpeg2source("D:\VTS_01_1.demuxed.d2v")
TDeint(mode=1)
FixBlendX(1)

The FixBlend function is here:
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.p...02#post1848202
TDeint here:
http://www.avisynth.nl/index.php/TDeint
I've no idea how to add them to StaxRip.


Last edited by hello_hello; 24th October 2018 at 20:15.
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