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Old 28th June 2020, 10:52   #2301  |  Link
mzso
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My 7900X (OC) can also play that video in 8K without drops, at 40% usage at most - straight in Chrome 83. Make sure its not your GPU that struggles downscaling the 8K video.

With Ryzen making 8 cores available to "mere mortals" for relatively low pricing, I don't think you need any particular "beast" right now, nevermind the next decade.
Well, I have an RX 580 with the R5 1600 and it's the CPU is what I see saturated. Both AV1 and VP9. And madVR shows decoder queue 1-4/4 upload/render 1-2/4, present 0-1/4

It doesn't seem like the GPU gets a chance to be too slow.

By the way I tried these videos' 8k AV1/VP9 streams:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCLOJ9j1k2Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1La4QzGeaaQ

Last edited by mzso; 28th June 2020 at 16:29.
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Old 28th June 2020, 11:41   #2302  |  Link
huhn
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zen 1 and 1+ have a bad AVX/AVX2 implementation they need 2 cycles to do such a operation unlike intel and zen 2 which can do that in 1 giving them 2x the ipc in decoding of modern codecs.

these are 8k 60 this is to much for my CPU too it's not even close.
edit:i take it back i get it barely working with EVR-CP.

Last edited by huhn; 28th June 2020 at 11:50.
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Old 1st July 2020, 18:17   #2303  |  Link
marcomsousa
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Chrome 85 will have AVIF support by default (Beta Jul 23, release Aug 25)
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Old 9th July 2020, 21:57   #2304  |  Link
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As for Intels Gen12 their Open source driver did enable AV1 decoding: https://github.com/intel/media-drive...3c0e9e945b8062

In one file it says MaxTile is 4096x2304, this coincides with the leak about Tigerlake 4k60 video.
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Old 10th July 2020, 00:10   #2305  |  Link
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great there can't be enough hardware decoder for promising codecs.
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Old 10th July 2020, 09:49   #2306  |  Link
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FtrIntelAV1VLDDecoding8bit420
FtrIntelAV1VLDDecoding10bit420
Tiger Lake's Gen12 GPU only supports AV1 4K 10-bit 4:2:0 fixed function(VLD) hardware decoding, not even 8K 12-bit 4:4:4 like it does with VP9, kinda disappointing.

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Old 10th July 2020, 15:52   #2307  |  Link
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Not even 8K 12 bit sounds strange, there is no real need for 12 bit. Actually it's similar to Gen9.5 which supports 8/10 Bit 4:2:0 VP9/HEVC, even though it did support 8K afaik. Apparently it's not a trivial VP9 copy and paste, you should be happy that at least one major GPU IHV is going to support AV1 this year even if it's not the super highest possible variant.
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Old 10th July 2020, 17:22   #2308  |  Link
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Not even 8K 12 bit sounds strange, there is no real need for 12 bit. Actually it's similar to Gen9.5 which supports 8/10 Bit 4:2:0 VP9/HEVC, even though it did support 8K afaik. Apparently it's not a trivial VP9 copy and paste, you should be happy that at least one major GPU IHV is going to support AV1 this year even if it's not the super highest possible variant.
AV1 is a pretty complex bitstream to decode.

For moving image content for humans to watch at a distance where they can comfortably see the action in all four corners of the screen, 8K is pretty much indistinguishable from 4K. No one is actually mastering premium content in 8K (some 8K cameras get used, but all post is done in 4K, and often 2K for VFX).

12-bit has some theoretical value, but it's not like there are native 12-bit panels to watch it on. Given all the dithering that goes on, 10-bit is sufficient in most cases. 12-bit's value would mainly to be to not have to worry about dithering in post and encoding with HDR, like how 10-bit pretty much eliminates those concerns with SDR.

All that said, has anyone seen any compelling research on AV1 encoding in HDR or 4K? Pretty much everything I've read at outside of marketing and demos has been SDR and 1080p or lower.
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Old 15th July 2020, 14:54   #2309  |  Link
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Old 17th July 2020, 13:39   #2310  |  Link
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Youtube is giving me AV1 videos without changing configuration on a fresh Windows 10 installed in Chrome without login in Youtube on a i5-1035G1 CPU - 499€ Laptop.

Justing clicking on the first 5 videos from the main page. 3 are AV01 at 1080p and the other VP9.
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Old 17th July 2020, 13:54   #2311  |  Link
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Since AOM AV1 2.0.0 was released a couple of months ago. Have anyone seen a YouTube AV01 video encoded using it?

I always thought AV01 meant AOM 1.X.X

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Old 17th July 2020, 14:01   #2312  |  Link
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AV01 = AOM (AV1)
The next AV2, would be AV02 in youtube.

Also Is normal that Google isn't executing exacly the same version as in the Web. Normal a big company adds small changes to source code for specific Google Platform or backporting fixes.

Note: libaom 2.0.0 is nothing related with AV02 is just an improved version ov AV01 encoder.
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Last edited by marcomsousa; 17th July 2020 at 14:05.
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Old 17th July 2020, 14:14   #2313  |  Link
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AV01 = AOM (AV1) - the version encoded will not be shared (Also, is normal they adds small changes to source code for specific Google Platform)

The next AV2, would be AV02 in youtube.
Thanks for replying it.

Since you mentioned AV2. Now that VVC is out. Is there anything shared about the developments of AV2?

I remember reading somewhere that Apple was pushing AV2 since they joined AOM late in the game.

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Old 17th July 2020, 14:22   #2314  |  Link
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AV2 development has practically only just started, it'll be a while before anything substantial can be said about it.
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Old 18th July 2020, 08:52   #2315  |  Link
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AV2 development has practically only just started, it'll be a while before anything substantial can be said about it.
Will they do the same old? Stick with the basics and make it more convoluted and computation heavy?

(Somehow I doubt they'll try something different, like Daala did with lapped transforms)
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Old 18th July 2020, 22:26   #2316  |  Link
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Will they do the same old? Stick with the basics and make it more convoluted and computation heavy?

(Somehow I doubt they'll try something different, like Daala did with lapped transforms)
More years of patents will have expired, so there are likely patented techniques they couldn't use in AV1 which are now available to use in AV2. Plus they have experience seeing what limitations there are holding back encoders and decoders, and they can engineer around those. Getting more HW decoder vendors involved early could help a LOT. MPEG codecs get way, way more input on how to optimize bitstream design to allow for low-cost HW implementations than AV1 did.

For all the complexity of VVC on the encode side, from everything I've heard it'll still be able to have cheaper, simpler decoders than AV1 can.
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Old 26th July 2020, 18:47   #2317  |  Link
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More years of patents will have expired, so there are likely patented techniques they couldn't use in AV1 which are now available to use in AV2. Plus they have experience seeing what limitations there are holding back encoders and decoders, and they can engineer around those. Getting more HW decoder vendors involved early could help a LOT. MPEG codecs get way, way more input on how to optimize bitstream design to allow for low-cost HW implementations than AV1 did.

For all the complexity of VVC on the encode side, from everything I've heard it'll still be able to have cheaper, simpler decoders than AV1 can.
One would hope that there's something better out there than making decades old heritage ever more complicated. Just because wavelets and lapped transforms didn't quite work out, it doesn't mean there isn't a better way to encode video.

Honestly, creating another similar (but more complicated) format AV2 seems really pointless at this point. Either create something revolutionary or keep optimizing AV1 encoding/decoding. AVC has been around for many years and will remain for many more. MPEG-2 and ASP didn't die out yet either.
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Old 26th July 2020, 20:06   #2318  |  Link
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AV1 will continue to be optimized for the next 5-10 years without changing format.

Changing format is AV2. The development format process will takes 2 to 3 years+5 years for HW decoder+encoder. So developing the new AV2 can be started anytime now.

If software patents expired in 20 years, so AV2 can have a lot of old technics.

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Old 27th July 2020, 02:12   #2319  |  Link
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One would hope that there's something better out there than making decades old heritage ever more complicated. Just because wavelets and lapped transforms didn't quite work out, it doesn't mean there isn't a better way to encode video.

Honestly, creating another similar (but more complicated) format AV2 seems really pointless at this point. Either create something revolutionary or keep optimizing AV1 encoding/decoding. AVC has been around for many years and will remain for many more. MPEG-2 and ASP didn't die out yet either.
Well, the thing is that iterations and refinement of block-based frequency transform coding keep on showing bigger potential gains than the Big Idea alternative transforms. Some of this could be because of the momentum of R&D around the traditional stuff. Or it could be that we luckily hit upon the right essential transform that balances spatial and temporal prediction better than available alternatives. Arguably modern compression is reallly "just" elaborations of JPEG and H.261. But oh, how elaborate!
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Old 27th July 2020, 15:03   #2320  |  Link
mzso
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Well, the thing is that iterations and refinement of block-based frequency transform coding keep on showing bigger potential gains than the Big Idea alternative transforms. Some of this could be because of the momentum of R&D around the traditional stuff. Or it could be that we luckily hit upon the right essential transform that balances spatial and temporal prediction better than available alternatives. Arguably modern compression is reallly "just" elaborations of JPEG and H.261. But oh, how elaborate!
"Or it could be that we luckily hit upon the right essential transform that balances spatial and temporal prediction better than available alternatives."

I highly doubt it. I think it's more likely the illusion of familiarity and the blinders that come with it.

"Some of this could be because of the momentum of R&D around the traditional stuff."

It certainly seems like that alternatives got only limited efforts on them.
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