Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > (HD) DVD, Blu-ray & (S)VCD > DVD & BD Rebuilder

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 2nd January 2014, 20:59   #18721  |  Link
DoctorM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 532
@gonca - I know when I've manually encoded using CRF (with MeGUI), tenths of a point rarely made much difference. Later I'm going to try testing clips and comparing 16.33 to 16.00. The bitrate difference should be awfully minor. To extrapolate 16.33 as the best with the next lower tested value is .69 below that seems like a pretty big estimation. Still, I don't know the algorithm used... and DVD RB's method always seemed damn good so I'm willing to assume it's still the best possible system.

@jdobbs - I'm a bit concerned about something though. Doing some further playing around with a BD25 to BD5 one pass CRF, I decided I wanted to compare source vs encode for quality.

Code:
source=ffmpegsource2("(Source)\BDMV\STREAM\00000.m2ts").subtitle("Source")
encode=ffmpegsource2("(BDRB Encode)\BDMV\STREAM\00000.m2ts").subtitle("Encode")
interleave(source,encode)
Just a few hundred frames in they go out of sync by a couple frames and then it moves back and forth throughout. No more than a few frames, but I'm at a loss to figure out why. ffms2 should be frame accurate and DVDRB encoding with directshowsource should be perfect since it is being encoded linearly. I'm not sure if I should be worried or not about this, but I've never seen that with encodings before. Any thoughts on this?
DoctorM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd January 2014, 22:12   #18722  |  Link
jdobbs
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 20,470
@DoctorM

Are you playing end-to-end or jumping around and looking at the frames? ffpmegsource2 isn't frame-accurate when an M2TS is a source. From the ffmpegsource2 user manual:
Quote:
M2TS, TS: Seeking seems to be off a few frames here and there
__________________
Help with development of new apps: Donations.
Website: www.jdobbs.net
jdobbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd January 2014, 22:42   #18723  |  Link
mparade
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 575
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post
@gonca - I know when I've manually encoded using CRF (with MeGUI), tenths of a point rarely made much difference. Later I'm going to try testing clips and comparing 16.33 to 16.00. The bitrate difference should be awfully minor. To extrapolate 16.33 as the best with the next lower tested value is .69 below that seems like a pretty big estimation. Still, I don't know the algorithm used... and DVD RB's method always seemed damn good so I'm willing to assume it's still the best possible system.

@jdobbs - I'm a bit concerned about something though. Doing some further playing around with a BD25 to BD5 one pass CRF, I decided I wanted to compare source vs encode for quality.

Code:
source=ffmpegsource2("(Source)\BDMV\STREAM\00000.m2ts").subtitle("Source")
encode=ffmpegsource2("(BDRB Encode)\BDMV\STREAM\00000.m2ts").subtitle("Encode")
interleave(source,encode)
Just a few hundred frames in they go out of sync by a couple frames and then it moves back and forth throughout. No more than a few frames, but I'm at a loss to figure out why. ffms2 should be frame accurate and DVDRB encoding with directshowsource should be perfect since it is being encoded linearly. I'm not sure if I should be worried or not about this, but I've never seen that with encodings before. Any thoughts on this?
In what program do you load the avs script? I would like to make some quality check also but with MPEG-4 sources to know which CRF value fits best to my need.

My current script is:

LoadPlugin("E:\Users\X\Downloads\dgavcdec109\DGAVCDecode.dll")
a = DirectShowSource("L:\BD-50\THE DARK KNIGHT RISES\DISC1\DARK_KNIGHT_RISES\BDMV\STREAM\00020.m2ts")
b = DirectShowSource("F:\BDMV\STREAM\00000.m2ts")
Interleave(a,b)
mparade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd January 2014, 20:26   #18724  |  Link
DoctorM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 532
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
@DoctorM

Are you playing end-to-end or jumping around and looking at the frames? ffpmegsource2 isn't frame-accurate when an M2TS is a source. From the ffmpegsource2 user manual:
That's probably it. Will extract the video and try again.

@mparade - directshowsource is definitely not frame accurate. You will need to index the files before you can do this. Demux the video streams and use either ffmpegsource2 or DGAVCIndex.

For viewing, I'm a throwback and still use VirtualDubMod. It still works so I've never felt a reason to change.

Last edited by DoctorM; 3rd January 2014 at 20:29.
DoctorM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd January 2014, 21:57   #18725  |  Link
mparade
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 575
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post
That's probably it. Will extract the video and try again.

@mparade - directshowsource is definitely not frame accurate. You will need to index the files before you can do this. Demux the video streams and use either ffmpegsource2 or DGAVCIndex.

For viewing, I'm a throwback and still use VirtualDubMod. It still works so I've never felt a reason to change.
Thank you for the help. Anyway, I have been still using VirtualdubMod as well since the beginning of the release of DVD-RB.
mparade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd January 2014, 23:24   #18726  |  Link
MuttLover
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ohio Valley/USA
Posts: 67
First off, thank-you for making such a useful product. I donated to and used the original DVD Rebuilder product and I have donated to and use the BD Rebuilder product.
I apologize if this has been reported before. I did a search on this thread and did not see the issue come up.
I have been backing up the holiday DVDs and ran across some strange behavior in The Wolverine, NTSC, Movie-only backup, Keep HD soundtrack, all English subtitles, all English soundtracks, BD. The forced subtitles in the film do not automatically clear off the screen. To get them to clear, I had to fast forward. Otherwise the last subtitle would stay up.

FYI:
I have run inspect.exe and all items check out OK.
- Windows Version: 6.1 [7601]
- AVISYNTH Version: [2.5.8.0], Ok
- HAALI Splitter: [1.9.42.1], Ok
- FFDSHOW: [3326], Ok
- WIN7 preferred AVC CODEC: Ok
- WIN7 preferred VC-1 CODEC: Ok
- WIN7 preferred MPEG2 CODEC: Ok
- FFDSHOW VC-1 set to "wmv9", Ok
- FFDSHOW MPEG2 set to "libavcodec": Ok
- FFDSHOW AVC set to "libavcodec": Ok
- AnyDVD settings check: Ok.
- BD Rebuilder v0.45.0.5, Ok
- X264: Ok
- AFTEN: Ok
- FAAC: Ok
- WAVI: Ok
- TSMUXER: Ok

Windows 7.0, 64 Bit Home premium up-to-date

I was working on a series of backups so I did not get a log file.

Thanks for your help, and as I said before, my apologies if you were already aware of this.

Encoder settings, automatic, this is the vanilla version of the BDREBUILDER.ZIP.

Setup changes:
unchecked "Limit to one track for each language" for both audio and subtitles
checked "Keep HD Audio for BD25/Alternate intact"
All other setup is the vanilla setup.
Movie-only mode

Last edited by MuttLover; 3rd January 2014 at 23:44. Reason: Provide more setup/environment info
MuttLover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2014, 00:00   #18727  |  Link
RobertM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuttLover View Post
The forced subtitles in the film do not automatically clear off the screen.
Hmm... Interesting. I recently had an instance like this. And it may well have been on "The Wolverine" (can't remember exactly). Could be a bug in the original subtitle stream, I suppose.
RobertM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2014, 00:23   #18728  |  Link
jdobbs
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 20,470
I just did a movie-only backup of Wolverine two days ago... but I was reencoding the soundtrack to AC3. I run it again keeping the HD audio and see what happens.
__________________
Help with development of new apps: Donations.
Website: www.jdobbs.net
jdobbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2014, 02:28   #18729  |  Link
DoctorM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 532
Demuxed the video tracks with tsMuxerGUI, indexed with DGAVCIndex, modified the script and bing the frames line up perfectly. Whew.
Sorry for stupidly freaking out. Everyone always crow about how great ffmpegsource is, but not it's failures like issues with transport streams.

The final encoding from an animated film, 19gb down to 4gb, BDRB made a pristine copy. I'm hard pressed to find any differences randomly checking frames. Great stuff.
DoctorM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2014, 02:32   #18730  |  Link
Guest
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 21,923
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post
Everyone always crow about how great ffmpegsource is, but not it's failures like issues with transport streams.
+1

Quote:
M2TS, TS: Seeking seems to be off a few frames here and there
After all, it is so hard to parse a transport stream.

Call it the dark side of open source software.

Last edited by Guest; 4th January 2014 at 02:36.
Guest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2014, 04:38   #18731  |  Link
manolito
Registered User
 
manolito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Berlin, Germany
Posts: 2,724
Sorry if this has been answered before, but what is your current opinion regarding ffdshow vs. LAV filters?

So far I have been using the recommended versions of ffdshow and Haali from the first post of this thread without any issues. But recently I ran into troubles decoding source files with a non-mod4 width, and switching from ffdshow to LAV filters solved all these problems.

Since ffdshow is not developped any more, and Haali does not support some current formats, is it safe to ditch ffdshow and Haali and use the current (0.59.1) version of LAV filters instead?



Cheers
manolito
manolito is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2014, 05:55   #18732  |  Link
DoctorM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 532
Quote:
Originally Posted by manolito View Post
Sorry if this has been answered before, but what is your current opinion regarding ffdshow vs. LAV filters?

So far I have been using the recommended versions of ffdshow and Haali from the first post of this thread without any issues. But recently I ran into troubles decoding source files with a non-mod4 width, and switching from ffdshow to LAV filters solved all these problems.

Since ffdshow is not developped any more, and Haali does not support some current formats, is it safe to ditch ffdshow and Haali and use the current (0.59.1) version of LAV filters instead?



Cheers
manolito
The last build I see of ffdshow was December 3rd (rev 4527). I don't know what you're following.
DoctorM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2014, 06:05   #18733  |  Link
manolito
Registered User
 
manolito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Berlin, Germany
Posts: 2,724
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post
The last build I see of ffdshow was December 3rd (rev 4527). I don't know what you're following.
What am I following???

The last official and recommended version of ffdshow on sourceforge is from 2013-01-06 - ffdshow 1.3.4500

The version jdobbs endorses is ffdshow_rev4504_20130312_clsid.exe from March 2013.

And here is a recent quote from qyot27:
Quote:
ffdshow's development has almost halted, and on top of that, it relies on an internal copy of the libav* libraries, whereas LAV Filters doesn't. So basically, LAV is actively maintained and uses much more up-to-date versions of avcodec, avformat, etc. It's also capable of playing both HEVC and Opus - ffdshow can't (and unless there's been a recent update, Haali can't deal with Opus streams in MKV, despite Opus-in-MKV being finalized back in July).

Plus a few posts by clsid:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...11#post1645211
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...67#post1656467
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...99#post1656599


So this is what I am following...


Cheers
manolito

Last edited by manolito; 4th January 2014 at 09:49.
manolito is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2014, 17:31   #18734  |  Link
jdobbs
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 20,470
Quote:
Originally Posted by manolito View Post
Sorry if this has been answered before, but what is your current opinion regarding ffdshow vs. LAV filters?

So far I have been using the recommended versions of ffdshow and Haali from the first post of this thread without any issues. But recently I ran into troubles decoding source files with a non-mod4 width, and switching from ffdshow to LAV filters solved all these problems.

Since ffdshow is not developped any more, and Haali does not support some current formats, is it safe to ditch ffdshow and Haali and use the current (0.59.1) version of LAV filters instead?



Cheers
manolito
It's been a while, but if I recall correctly the LAV filters have difficulty with VC-1 interlaced content. I'll give it a test later today and let you know if that is still the case.
__________________
Help with development of new apps: Donations.
Website: www.jdobbs.net
jdobbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2014, 21:06   #18735  |  Link
DoctorM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 532
Quote:
Originally Posted by manolito View Post
What am I following???

The last official and recommended version of ffdshow on sourceforge is from 2013-01-06 - ffdshow 1.3.4500

The version jdobbs endorses is ffdshow_rev4504_20130312_clsid.exe from March 2013.

And here is a recent quote from qyot27:



Plus a few posts by clsid:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...11#post1645211
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...67#post1656467
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...99#post1656599


So this is what I am following...


Cheers
manolito
So your quote regarding ffdshow's development is from a programmer of LAV filters. I'd take that with a grain of salt.

I'm not looking to start a fight, but BD RB already works. Have you found a bug with BD RB and ffdshow that you are reporting or are you just voicing your preference for your favorite filter? Do you have HEVC and Opus BD that need re-encoding?
DoctorM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2014, 23:36   #18736  |  Link
Guest
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 21,923
manolito has already clearly stated his motivation:

"But recently I ran into troubles decoding source files with a non-mod4 width, and switching from ffdshow to LAV filters solved all these problems."
Guest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2014, 23:50   #18737  |  Link
jdobbs
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 20,470
Quote:
Originally Posted by manolito View Post
Sorry if this has been answered before, but what is your current opinion regarding ffdshow vs. LAV filters?

So far I have been using the recommended versions of ffdshow and Haali from the first post of this thread without any issues. But recently I ran into troubles decoding source files with a non-mod4 width, and switching from ffdshow to LAV filters solved all these problems.

Since ffdshow is not developped any more, and Haali does not support some current formats, is it safe to ditch ffdshow and Haali and use the current (0.59.1) version of LAV filters instead?



Cheers
manolito
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
It's been a while, but if I recall correctly the LAV filters have difficulty with VC-1 interlaced content. I'll give it a test later today and let you know if that is still the case.
Well at least on the VC-1 interlaced source I tested today it appear X264's LAVF function is now decoding it properly. I'll do some more testing.

Right now, though, if LAVF is selected and BD-RB encounters a VC-1 interlaced source BD-RB reverts to DirectshowSource() for frame serving. The same happens when there is resizing or other AVISYNTH filter requirements based upon settings.

If my continued testing confirms what this one source suggests, I may have to change the process flow. X264 has some internal filtering capabilities (like resizing) so I may be able to make LAVF work in more scenarios than now. Assuming all is well, it may even be worth consideration to make LAVF the default at some point.
__________________
Help with development of new apps: Donations.
Website: www.jdobbs.net

Last edited by jdobbs; 4th January 2014 at 23:55.
jdobbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2014, 02:33   #18738  |  Link
nozuul
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 28
Wolverine Extended Cut

Not sure I know what I am doing with this one. This is the first time I have tried using the forced subs feature. Also the first time I got a fail in quite awhile.

Here is the Log.

[01/04/14] BD Rebuilder v0.45.05 (beta)
[14:34:56] Source: THE_WOLVERINE_00800
- Input BD size: 40.82 GB
- Approximate total content: [02:18:05.277]
- Windows Version: 6.1 [7601]
- MOVIE-ONLY/ALTERNATE OUTPUT mode enabled
- Mode: iPad 2+/iPhone 4s+, 720x480/576, 128Kbs AAC
- Decoding/Frame serving: DirectShow
- Audio Settings: AC3=0 DTS=0 HD=0 Kbs=640
[14:34:57] PHASE ONE, Encoding
- [14:34:57] Processing: VID_00800 (1 of 1)
- [14:34:57] Extracting A/V streams [VID_00800]
- [14:44:13] Reencoding video [VID_00800]
- Source Video: MPEG-4 (AVC), 1920x1080
- Rate/Length: 23.976fps, 198,648 frames
- [14:44:14] Reencoding: VID_00800, Pass 1 of 1
- Encode failed. Aborting.
- BD-Rebuilder v0.45.05 (beta)
- Windows Version: 6.1 [7601]
- AVISYNTH Version: 2.5.8.0, Ok
- HAALI Splitter: 1.11.96.14, Ok
- FFDSHOW: 3882, Ok
- WIN7 preferred AVC CODEC: Ok
- WIN7 preferred VC-1 CODEC: Ok
- WIN7 preferred MPEG2 CODEC: Ok
- FFDSHOW VC-1 set to "wmv9", Ok
- FFDSHOW MPEG2 set to "libavcodec": Ok
- FFDSHOW AVC set to "ffmpeg-mt": Ok
- AnyDVD settings check: Ok.
- X264: Ok
- AFTEN: Ok
- FAAC: Ok
- WAVI: Ok
- TSMUXER: Ok
[14:44:15] - Failed video encode, aborted

Any ideas?

Thanks
nozuul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2014, 03:00   #18739  |  Link
nozuul
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 28
Never mind, I had installed the x64 version of SupTitle

Once I installed the x86 files, it seems to be chugging along just fine.

My bad.

Thanks anyway!
nozuul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2014, 04:06   #18740  |  Link
manolito
Registered User
 
manolito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Berlin, Germany
Posts: 2,724
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
If my continued testing confirms what this one source suggests, I may have to change the process flow. X264 has some internal filtering capabilities (like resizing) so I may be able to make LAVF work in more scenarios than now. Assuming all is well, it may even be worth consideration to make LAVF the default at some point.
Thanks a lot jdobbs for looking into it.


Cheers
manolito
manolito is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:09.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.