madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Asmodian]

Because madVR does not have an option to flip the video and MPC does not have a way to intercept the video between the decoder and renderer to flip it. The renderer is the right place to do something like a horizontal flip, but madVR does not support it.

[HillieSan]

Originally Posted by SirMaster

If you are having stutters on Nvidia, make sure vsync is enabled globally or for your media player. Set Nvidia low latency mode to off (again globally or for the media player), and disable multiplane overlay.

There is no “I like” button in this forum. Herewith, I like your tip. I use this simple solution as well and madvr runs smooth on my 1080 and 3060. It’s more like solving the glitches than stuttering.

[flossy_cake]

So am I correct in understanding that in Windows 10 MadVR cannot do a proper full screen exclusive mode like DX9/DX11 games use?

Because after "upgrading" from Windows 7 to 10 I can see regardless of my chosen MadVR settings the MadVR debug screen always reports "composition rate" which I take to mean the rendering is all going through the Windows compositor now.... which means what ... Windows is applying its own vsync and triple buffering to MadVRs output? Is that how it works in Windows 10? Or is that only Windows 7 behaviour?

Also random comment, I'm playing around with a new Intel UHD 730 iGPU and shocked to find how pissweak it is... all it can basically manage for 60fps is bicubic scaling only, and that's it. Lanczos is too much GPU load for it, antiringing filter is too much for it, and none of the DXVA features work either, just get black screen for any DXVA processing. The UHD 770 is about 50% faster than 730 so maybe that one could be used for light HTPC duties but I reckon you'd want at least a 1060 or a 3050 for MadVR (my old R9 380 manages it ok too, but needed the stable enterprise driver otherwise it has a 5% chance of crashing every time MadVR changes the display mode). To confidently steamroll everything I'd say you'd want a 1070/3060/4060 or AMD equivalent.

[huhn]

nothing can do FSE ou of the box.
microsoft disabled it and just lies to the software.

you are always going through the DWM as there is no FSE anymore.
some driver and windows version will show a composition rate some don't do that.

[flossy_cake]

Originally Posted by huhn

nothing can do FSE ou of the box.
microsoft disabled it and just lies to the software.

you are always going through the DWM as there is no FSE anymore.
some driver and windows version will show a composition rate some don't do that.

Cheers, I won't worry about it then.

The windows 7 compositor is a bit flakey for me, so maybe the windows 10 compositor is better. Haven't had any issues with it so far but need to do lots of testing.

[isamu]

Hi guys, do any of you happen to know of a plugin, or any sort of way that enables menu support for 4K UHD Bluray discs in either MPC-HC or MPC-BE? Sucks that we have this as support by default.

[Manni]

Originally Posted by isamu

Hi guys, do any of you happen to know of a plugin, or any sort of way that enables menu support for 4K UHD Bluray discs in either MPC-HC or MPC-BE? Sucks that we have this as support by default.

jRiver MC does it very well and supports both madVR and JRVR. AFAIK there is no such option for MPC-BE.
I use jRiver (with JRVR) as an external player for CMC and it works great (within the limitations of HTPCs).

[isamu]

Originally Posted by Manni

jRiver MC does it very well and supports both madVR and JRVR. AFAIK there is no such option for MPC-BE.
I use jRiver (with JRVR) as an external player for CMC and it works great (within the limitations of HTPCs).

Thank you sir! What exactly is jRiver MC and where can I find more information about it? Link?

[SamuriHL]

Originally Posted by isamu

Thank you sir! What exactly is jRiver MC and where can I find more information about it? Link?

https://jriver.com/

Sent from my SM-S928U1 using Tapatalk

[isamu]

Originally Posted by SamuriHL

https://jriver.com/

Sent from my SM-S928U1 using Tapatalk

Thanks buddy!

[Sunspark]

@flossy_cake It really depends on what OS build, driver version and GPU level you're using.. One of the things that is necessary to do on older builds, not sure about the newest ones as I don't use them, is on the compatibility tab of the player's properties is to place a check on "disable fullscreen optimizations". I believe FSE does work on my system as looking at the graph lines in the HUD of other renderers like evr-cp and mpc-vr the shape is not the same as when it is in non-exclusive. Do you "need" exclusive? No. Can it be useful sometimes? Yes, a good example is if you use night light but don't want it to affect the video playing, then you need FSE as it bypasses night light. Overlay still works for me, but older system.

Do your test with the checkbox I mentioned.

You may need to go much further like disabling the game bar as well which is another overlay layer.

Composition rate line was present even on Windows 7.

You don't want to recommend AMD for your own use, because you do a lot of deinterlacing--there are issues, unless you rolled up a fully software solution.

All non-exclusive modes get vsynced by Windows so it's not necessary to turn on built-in vsync options in players. I very much do like to switch to the resolution and refresh rate of the video playing, so even in FSE you don't need to turn on player vsync either if you do that.

Tip for the scaling issue you're having at 60 fps. Instead of trying to scale both chroma and the image, switch to the resolution and refresh of the video and scale just chroma only and let your display do the image scaling. Is it going to be "as nice"? Depends on what your display does. Mine is ok and doing that reduces system load.

[flossy_cake]

Originally Posted by Sunspark

on the compatibility tab of the player's properties is to place a check on "disable fullscreen optimizations".

Cheers I didn't know about that one. The Windows 10 machine I was building has been handed off to my parents so I'm unable to test it right now but does it still say "composition rate" for you?

Also what about FSE mode games - do those all go through compositor now too on Windows 10+? Cause the "tell" on Windows 7 that you were going through compositor is that vsync would always be enabled even when you disabled it in the game. But in Windows 10 if I run Unigine Heaven benchmark in fullscreen mode I can run it vsyncless and get tearing which I *thought* implied no compositor but I'm probably wrong it seems and Windows 10 probably stopped forcing vsync for its compositor?

Originally Posted by Sunspark

You don't want to recommend AMD for your own use, because you do a lot of deinterlacing--there are issues, unless you rolled up a fully software solution.

I do all my deinterlacing on the CPU with Avisynth in realtime using my own script to adaptively and seamlessly switch between BWDIF and TIVTC - heres a demo of it in action (480i30 -> 1080p60). I was motivated because the MadVR IVTC gets tripped up on cadence breaks whereas my script doesn't because it maintains the field rate when IVTC'ing to 60p so the cadence is always the same as the source. It can also optionally IVTC to 24p and detect the cadence breaks and do a frame blend over 10 frames to hide the stutter caused by duplicates ending up in the final 24p clip, in case you prefer the smooth motion of 24p vs 3:2 at 60p.

[Sunspark]

Yes, the checkbox still says composition rate, however from what I read it was only respected between versions 1709 and 1809 and after that no. There are a bunch of registry keys in \HKEY_CURRENT_USER\System\GameConfigStore to control things around FSE, but I haven't messed with them. Can't even remember if I added a key. There are 7 entries listed there for me. If you really get into it, you may need to mess with the registry keys, especially for games. So now I don't know if it's actually using true FSE.. alt-tab doesn't work with my setup, so who knows? YMMV, a lot of testing will be required around those keys.

That said, I was curious so I booted into Windows 7 to take a look. Overlay DOES show a composition rate there if using the Aero theme, but does not show the line if it is using Basic or Classic. Checking the MadVR option to disable desktop and unchecking only fullscreen sub-option, you see the theme switch to basic so that is what it is doing. FSE mode doesn't show the composition line in any theme there. In Windows 7 overlay mode will show a composition rate of 30 Hz when playing 23.976 when in Aero.

In Windows 10, all display paths including overlay will show the composition line. That said, from poking at it, fullscreen exclusive when resolutions and refresh rates are matched, but using old-path backbuffers has a consistently lower rendering time than new-path frames in advance on this old igpu, this is with the player properties checkbox checked to disable optimizations. Don't know if there's a relation. The difference is minor and not worth caring about, but it is there. Overlay mode will show 23.976 as the composition rate unlike 30 in Win 7.

[flossy_cake]

Originally Posted by flossy_cake

I just "upgraded" from a 1070 to a 3060 and it introduced stutters in MPC-HC + MadVR on 60fps videos. I traced it down to the new driver defaults which defaults to "power management mode: normal" instead of "max performance". In other words, if I set "max performance" mode the stutters go away completely.

I have now downgraded all the way back to a AMD R9 380 and it downclocks during the 60fps test video and the playback is still perfectly smooth with not a single dropped frame, so I am 100% sure NVidia are being silly dummies with their bugged power profile driver code. Well, to be fair AMD are silly dummies too as I have to use some third party app called ClockBlocker to prevent downclocking in games order to get smooth fps in older games that use barely any GPU.

[huhn]

this is a madVR issue mpv works pretty good in this regard and games usually also have not that type of issue.

the default should be changed massively anyway nvidia is literally not working with out of the box settings.
but we all know that's not going to happen any time soon.

[tp4tissue]

For purely playback purposes, amd cards are just more convenient, that plus the nvidia greed tax, no brainer where madvr is concerned. AMD also cycles between 8bit and 10bit hdr seemlessly, no broken blank screens that crash sometimes.

[flossy_cake]

Originally Posted by huhn

this is a madVR issue

how can u say that when turning off the nvidia power management solves the issue, cmon man its clearly the power management and that behaviour is happening inside the driver so to blame it on something outside the driver is not fair to the authors of MPC and MadVR

[flossy_cake]

oh I know what we could do... leave nvidia max performance mode enabled but downclock to 300mhz in afterburner. if it doesnt stutter then i would say it's the nvidia power management driver code to blame . i would test this myself but i already moved the 3060 to a new mobo that doesn't have any OS installed and that is a big job for me to build a new image from scratch so i probly wont get it done for another week or so

[huhn]

Originally Posted by flossy_cake

how can u say that when turning off the nvidia power management solves the issue, cmon man its clearly the power management and that behaviour is happening inside the driver so to blame it on something outside the driver is not fair to the authors of MPC and MadVR

because a video renderer is design to run at low power and other video renderer have no issue but you removed that part of the quote to just misquote me.

madVR uses a render queue of 8 which nvidia doesn't support for like 6 years now.

what has mpc todo with this anyway?

[Siso]

Huhn, what number of render queue nvidia supports now?