Filter for 'weird' interlacing?

bartel75 · 20th May 2010, 21:20

Hello,

Could anyone suggest a nice filter to make the following video smooth again? The regular deinterlace filters (tomsmocomp, yadif, etc.) don't seem to handle this one...

Video sample (6 mb vob):
http://rapidshare.com/files/389671750/VTS_01_1.VOB
or
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZKRYGNXQ

Thanks in advance, and sorry for the rather vague title; I don't know how I'd call this phenomenon, so it was a bit hard to search the forum for similar cases. If you know what this is actually called, thanks for letting me know...

LoRd_MuldeR · 20th May 2010, 21:36

The obvious question: Did you try YadifMod+NNEDI2 or TempGaussMC yet ???

poisondeathray · 20th May 2010, 21:45

it's actually not interlaced , and those horizontal lines are encoded into each separate field

I don't know how to improve it without blurring the crap out of it - But I would wait for some of the experts to chime in

LoRd_MuldeR · 20th May 2010, 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by poisondeathray

it's actually not interlaced , and those horizontal lines are encoded into each separate field

Now that I actually have the sample, it looks like the individual fields already contain something that looks like re-sized interlace.

I doubt there is a way to "fix" this mess

bartel75 · 20th May 2010, 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoRd_MuldeR

I doubt there is a way to "fix" this mess

I guess I'll just leave it like it is, then. Thanks for your input, guys...

wonkey_monkey · 20th May 2010, 23:04

I think it's an old 405-line broadcast. You might get something slightly nicer by downsizing vertically (but to what size is a matter for experimentation) and then bobbing/reinterlacing. I'd have a go myself but it's bedtime...

David

LoRd_MuldeR · 20th May 2010, 23:12

A very quick experiment with this code crudely smoothed out the interlacing artifacts:

Code:

MPEG2Source("C:\Temp\!_Downloads\VTS_01_1.d2v")
SeparateFields()
Merge(Last.SelectEven(),Last.SelectOdd())
NNEDI3(field=-2)
Merge(Last.SelectEven(),Last.SelectOdd())
NNEDI3(dh=true)

wonkey_monkey · 20th May 2010, 23:37

I tried:

Code:

lanczosresize(720,320) # guesswork; another value for height may work better
bob # also use a better bobber!
lanczosresize(720,576)

My guess: film recording telecined to 405-line videotape, then converted to PAL in a quick-and-dirty fashion.

David

bartel75 · 21st May 2010, 00:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoRd_MuldeR

A very quick experiment with this code crudely smoothed out the interlacing artifacts:

Very acceptable!

Very slow (0.12 fps)!

bartel75 · 21st May 2010, 00:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidhorman

I tried:

Code:

lanczosresize(720,320) # guesswork; another value for height may work better
bob # also use a better bobber!
lanczosresize(720,576)

Not as nice as LoRd_MuldeR's solution, but at least the speed is within reason. Thanks!

10L23r · 21st May 2010, 01:31

It looks like a 1.5x upscale, so it should be
lanczosresize(720,384)

2Bdecided · 21st May 2010, 10:55

It's a telerecording (kinescope) from a 405-line TV broadcast. They would have pointed a film camera at a TV screen, and captured the image displayed. The camera would have been synchronised to the video signal. This is quite high quality, and has captured both fields without blurring.

The resulting film has just been transferred to DVD like any other normal feature film - the "interlacing" you see is on the film print - the transfer from film to DVD isn't "interlaced" as such. (I know it's flagged interlaced, but so are many PAL film transfers).

It's quite rare for the original interlacing to be so well intact - it would have made this film very difficult to re-transmit, because there's no way the interlacing can "line up" again, so you'd get very strange effects watching the film on a 405-line interlaced CRT. Usually the fields are blurred together a little using spot wobble, either on the TV screen as the film is being captured, or in the film scanner when the film is being converted back to video.

It must be possible to detect the original scan lines, recover the original interlaced video, deinterlace it, and upscale it (this will have about 375 visible lines - you need 576 for PAL). Deinterlacing and upscaling can be done very well in AVIsynth, but I don't think anyone has ever recovered the original scan lines from a film print like this.

yet.

...but given that the far harder problem of colour recovery from a B&W film print has been acheived, this should be a walk in the park for some clever person!

Cheers,
David..

2Bdecided · 21st May 2010, 11:04

Without anything clever, my suggestion would be...

PHP Code:


			
mpeg2source("405-line interlaced VTS_01_1.d2v")

bilinearresize(720,188)

nnedi2(field=0,dh=true)

spline36resize(720,576)

Adjust the number 188 - higher to maintain more detail (but leave more "interlacing").

You could make it adaptive and only process the areas with movement. That would keep full resolution on stationary parts (where there's no "interlacing") - though adaptively blurring like this make look even stranger than having the whole thing look soft.

Cheers,
David.

Terka · 21st May 2010, 11:52

dont know if its suitable, but yuo may have a look at:
http://compression.ru/video/old_film..._shift_en.html

LoRd_MuldeR · 21st May 2010, 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by bartel75

Very acceptable!

Very slow (0.12 fps)!

NNEDI has some "speed -vs- quality" options you could tweak for speed. Also NNEDI2 is a lot faster than NNEDI3...

bartel75 · 21st May 2010, 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2Bdecided

Without anything clever, my suggestion would be...
(...)
Adjust the number 188 - higher to maintain more detail (but leave more "interlacing").

I put the number just a little higher (204) and used spline36resize(720,528) to get the AR right. I'm currently encoding (at 4 fps, which is acceptable for me).

The quality is not great, but at least it's better than the original dvd!

Thank you (all of you) for your suggestions!

bartel75 · 21st May 2010, 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoRd_MuldeR

Also NNEDI2 is a lot faster than NNEDI3...

I just noticed, based on 2Bdecided's suggestion!

2Bdecided · 21st May 2010, 16:38

btw, what is the DVD?

bartel75 · 21st May 2010, 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2Bdecided

btw, what is the DVD?

http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Cell.../dp/B000092T5P (European R2 version)

zilog jones · 22nd May 2010, 01:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2Bdecided

It must be possible to detect the original scan lines, recover the original interlaced video, deinterlace it, and upscale it (this will have about 375 visible lines - you need 576 for PAL). Deinterlacing and upscaling can be done very well in AVIsynth, but I don't think anyone has ever recovered the original scan lines from a film print like this.

yet.

...but given that the far harder problem of colour recovery from a B&W film print has been acheived, this should be a walk in the park for some clever person!

Field restoration from telerecordings has been done: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VidFIRE
I have not seen any of the restored programmes mentioned (they don't seem to broadcast them very often) but it sounds promising.

20th May 2010, 21:20	#1 \| Link
bartel75 Used Registerer Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Brussels Posts: 15	Filter for 'weird' interlacing? Hello, Could anyone suggest a nice filter to make the following video smooth again? The regular deinterlace filters (tomsmocomp, yadif, etc.) don't seem to handle this one... Video sample (6 mb vob): http://rapidshare.com/files/389671750/VTS_01_1.VOB or http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZKRYGNXQ Thanks in advance, and sorry for the rather vague title; I don't know how I'd call this phenomenon, so it was a bit hard to search the forum for similar cases. If you know what this is actually called, thanks for letting me know... Last edited by Guest; 20th May 2010 at 23:16. Reason: rule 12

20th May 2010, 21:36	#2 \| Link
LoRd_MuldeR Software Developer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Last House on Slunk Street Posts: 13,251	The obvious question: Did you try YadifMod+NNEDI2 or TempGaussMC yet ??? __________________ Go to https://standforukraine.com/ to find legitimate Ukrainian Charities 🇺🇦✊ Last edited by LoRd_MuldeR; 20th May 2010 at 21:38.

20th May 2010, 23:12	#7 \| Link
LoRd_MuldeR Software Developer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Last House on Slunk Street Posts: 13,251	A very quick experiment with this code crudely smoothed out the interlacing artifacts: Code: MPEG2Source("C:\Temp\!_Downloads\VTS_01_1.d2v") SeparateFields() Merge(Last.SelectEven(),Last.SelectOdd()) NNEDI3(field=-2) Merge(Last.SelectEven(),Last.SelectOdd()) NNEDI3(dh=true) __________________ Go to https://standforukraine.com/ to find legitimate Ukrainian Charities 🇺🇦✊

20th May 2010, 23:37	#8 \| Link
wonkey_monkey Formerly davidh***** Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 2,521	I tried: Code: lanczosresize(720,320) # guesswork; another value for height may work better bob # also use a better bobber! lanczosresize(720,576) My guess: film recording telecined to 405-line videotape, then converted to PAL in a quick-and-dirty fashion. David

21st May 2010, 11:04	#13 \| Link
2Bdecided Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: UK Posts: 1,673	Without anything clever, my suggestion would be... PHP Code: `mpeg2source("405-line interlaced VTS_01_1.d2v") bilinearresize(720,188) nnedi2(field=0,dh=true) spline36resize(720,576)` Adjust the number 188 - higher to maintain more detail (but leave more "interlacing"). You could make it adaptive and only process the areas with movement. That would keep full resolution on stationary parts (where there's no "interlacing") - though adaptively blurring like this make look even stranger than having the whole thing look soft. Cheers, David.

20th May 2010, 21:45	#3 \| Link
poisondeathray Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 5,424	it's actually not interlaced , and those horizontal lines are encoded into each separate field I don't know how to improve it without blurring the crap out of it - But I would wait for some of the experts to chime in

20th May 2010, 23:04	#6 \| Link
wonkey_monkey Formerly davidh***** Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 2,521	I think it's an old 405-line broadcast. You might get something slightly nicer by downsizing vertically (but to what size is a matter for experimentation) and then bobbing/reinterlacing. I'd have a go myself but it's bedtime... David

21st May 2010, 01:31	#11 \| Link
10L23r Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 122	It looks like a 1.5x upscale, so it should be lanczosresize(720,384)

21st May 2010, 10:55	#12 \| Link
2Bdecided Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: UK Posts: 1,673	It's a telerecording (kinescope) from a 405-line TV broadcast. They would have pointed a film camera at a TV screen, and captured the image displayed. The camera would have been synchronised to the video signal. This is quite high quality, and has captured both fields without blurring. The resulting film has just been transferred to DVD like any other normal feature film - the "interlacing" you see is on the film print - the transfer from film to DVD isn't "interlaced" as such. (I know it's flagged interlaced, but so are many PAL film transfers). It's quite rare for the original interlacing to be so well intact - it would have made this film very difficult to re-transmit, because there's no way the interlacing can "line up" again, so you'd get very strange effects watching the film on a 405-line interlaced CRT. Usually the fields are blurred together a little using spot wobble, either on the TV screen as the film is being captured, or in the film scanner when the film is being converted back to video. It must be possible to detect the original scan lines, recover the original interlaced video, deinterlace it, and upscale it (this will have about 375 visible lines - you need 576 for PAL). Deinterlacing and upscaling can be done very well in AVIsynth, but I don't think anyone has ever recovered the original scan lines from a film print like this. yet. ...but given that the far harder problem of colour recovery from a B&W film print has been acheived, this should be a walk in the park for some clever person! Cheers, David..

21st May 2010, 11:52	#14 \| Link
Terka Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: cz Posts: 704	dont know if its suitable, but yuo may have a look at: http://compression.ru/video/old_film..._shift_en.html

21st May 2010, 16:38	#18 \| Link
2Bdecided Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: UK Posts: 1,673	btw, what is the DVD?

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