Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12th December 2016, 17:06   #41441  |  Link
hannes69
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by BluesFanUK View Post
How could NGU in MadVR, even at its lowest setting, produce the noise but Assassins Creed on max settings bogging down the frames and using all the power not do the same?
Physical phenomenon called resonance. E.g. when driving a car, several components are shaking and vibrating because of the moving motor and the running wheels on the street. When the vibration has the same frequency like the resonance frequency of a certain component, this component starts to produce larger movements itself and gets loud. The said component (e.g. not perfect tight component of the dashboard) gives e.g the loudest noise when the motor has 2315rpm. When highering or lowering the rpm the loudness of the sound gets lower. Or the tyres give trhe loudest noise when driving exactly 34mph, when driving faster or slower the noise calms down.
So this phenomenon is dependant on speed (or amount of load, sort of load, GPU frequency when speaking of a GPU), but this does NOT mean "higher speed -> more noise". It means: "exactly the RIGHT speed -> the loudest noise".
Hope this analogy helps a little bit, the question concerning electric noise with NGU came along a few times already...
hannes69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th December 2016, 17:12   #41442  |  Link
Ver Greeneyes
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 447
Man, I leave for a week and the topic grows by a dozen pages

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Currently my hope is that I might be able to make NGU direct quadrupling (at least "Low" + "Med" quality levels) roughly as fast as "NGU doubling + JincAR upscaling", while producing better image quality than doubling with NGU twice.
Hmm, that's a pity. I have some profiles set up for 60fps content that probably wouldn't be able to manage that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I ran into some problems with it, though, so I can't say for sure right now if I can make a tripling NGU variant that is noticeably faster than quadrupling. It's possible tripling could end up with the same performance as quadrupling. If that's the case I probably won't bother creating tripling, because quadrupling + cheap downscaling will then probably offer the same or better image quality at similar speed. But it's all not decided yet.
I hope some form of tripling will be possible Even if the performance isn't better than quadrupling + downscaling (ouch), it might be better for cards that are struggling with the memory usage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Ok, I hear you. Would it help if you could simply disable NGU quadrupling altogether?
I think so. Quadrupling with NGU probably adds way less value than just doubling, so on 0.91.2 in some cases I'm using NGU med or high for doubling and NGU low for quadrupling right now (or turning quadrupling off altogether). In other cases I can only manage low for doubling, low doubling + low quadrupling would be way too expensive (but the resolution would warrant it in some cases). I haven't had time to play with the new versions yet.

Last edited by Ver Greeneyes; 12th December 2016 at 21:45.
Ver Greeneyes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th December 2016, 00:33   #41443  |  Link
kalston
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by BluesFanUK View Post
Doesn't sound like typical coil whine (more like a fying noise, no smell or anything and no impact on performance btw so it seems ok), I don't get it in games and I have owned the card for just over a year. First time i've ever heard it.

Like I said, i've only just discovered it using NGU. Any other settings even at max doesn't produce the noise either.

Why is that? Genuine question btw. How could NGU in MadVR, even at its lowest setting, produce the noise but Assassins Creed on max settings bogging down the frames and using all the power not do the same?
Happens to me as well with NGU (no such thing with NNEDI3). Nothing to worry about but can be annoying. It just uses a very specific part of the GPU chip or very specific parameters IDK. You should be able to reproduce it in games if you let your framerate reach 200+ (menus are great for this). I can definitely reproduce it if I disable g-sync and let my framerate skyrocket in some games. It is pretty interesting that NGU manages to trigger it with a low framerate.

Last edited by kalston; 13th December 2016 at 00:41.
kalston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th December 2016, 02:23   #41444  |  Link
Magik Mark
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 666
Quote:
Don't need perfect 23.976, just close enough, although depending on card you may already be close enough without needing to do this.

My pick with be Nvidia, seems to play a lot nicer with madVR overall plus far better power efficiency. I wouldn't bother with NNEDI3 64 neurons for chroma (I'd personally wouldn't use anything over NNEDI 3 32)
better off with NGU (if you like it sharp) try super-xbr and free up some headroom for luma stuff.
Thanks ryrnz. Tried the ff:

For 1920x1080 output

23.976 playback

active pixels horizontal: 1920 vertical: 1080
front porch horizontal: 638 vertical: 4
sync width horizontal: 44 vertical: 5
total pixels horizontal: 2750 vertical: 1124
polarity horizontal: positive vertical: positive
refresh rate: 23.978

for 59.94:
front porch horizontal: 88 vertical: 4
sync width horizontal: 44 vertical: 5
total pixels horizontal: 2200 vertical: 1124
polarity horizontal: positive vertical: positive
refresh rate: 59.942

for 29.97:
unverified (my projector cannot output at this refresh rate)
front porch horizontal: 638 vertical: 4
sync width horizontal: 44 vertical: 5
total pixels horizontal: 2750 vertical: 1124
refresh rate: 29.972

Video is smoother. However, madvr is still reporting 23.970fps
__________________
Asus ProArt Z790 - 13th Gen Intel i9 - RTX 3080 - DDR5 64GB Predator - LG OLED C9 - Yamaha A3030 - Windows 11 x64 - PotPlayerr - Lav - MadVR
Magik Mark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th December 2016, 03:04   #41445  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,903
the reported refreshrate is not important important is the time when you get a dropped or repeated frame.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th December 2016, 04:54   #41446  |  Link
Magik Mark
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 666
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
the reported refreshrate is not important important is the time when you get a dropped or repeated frame.


I get dropped frames every 3 to 4 minutes


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Asus ProArt Z790 - 13th Gen Intel i9 - RTX 3080 - DDR5 64GB Predator - LG OLED C9 - Yamaha A3030 - Windows 11 x64 - PotPlayerr - Lav - MadVR
Magik Mark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th December 2016, 06:55   #41447  |  Link
AngelGraves13
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
It certainly makes things brighter. Is it better? Who knows, up to you to decide.

NGU Very High vs NGU Very High SR4
Can you also post Super-XBR 150 vs NGU Very High?

Super-XBR 150 looks pretty good even as a doubler and doesn't even make my GPU hot. I'm a bit confused with the graph when doubling and quadrupling is enabled. I'm guessing the graph is bugged as changing any Super-XBR setting has no effect on it anyway.

Last edited by AngelGraves13; 13th December 2016 at 07:00.
AngelGraves13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th December 2016, 07:46   #41448  |  Link
ryrynz
Registered User
 
ryrynz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,646
Super-XBR 150 vs NGU Very High

I feel NGU for chroma goes a bit overboard, super-xbr looks quite nice here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelGraves13 View Post
Super-XBR 150 looks pretty good even as a doubler and doesn't even make my GPU hot. I'm a bit confused with the graph when doubling and quadrupling is enabled. I'm guessing the graph is bugged as changing any Super-XBR setting has no effect on it anyway.
Indeed. I should really evaluate it against NNEDI3 for some of my profiles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magik Mark View Post
Video is smoother. However, madvr is still reporting 23.970fps
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
the reported refreshrate is not important important is the time when you get a dropped or repeated frame.
Yeah, I wanted as as accurate as I could too, and huhn said the same thing to me. Like I said you only need it accurate "enough" which means if it only drops a frame every five plus hours and you never play anything over three hours you're never going to see a dropped frame. I haven't seen one since I've changed it and it's been glorious.

I might not have considered 24Hz had huhn not been so adamant about his preference for it.. The motion is just more clear at 24Hz on my plasma and really seems to pop.
It's more enjoyable and now I don't get any dropped frames so I reckon it's pretty much perfect.
ryrynz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th December 2016, 09:04   #41449  |  Link
Siso
Soul Seeker
 
Siso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 711
What does exactly "don't use linear light for dithering" option mean, should it be On or Off?
Siso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th December 2016, 09:09   #41450  |  Link
ryrynz
Registered User
 
ryrynz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,646
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siso View Post
What does exactly "don't use linear light for dithering" option mean, should it be On or Off?
By default it's ticked, the title gives you your answer..
"Trade quality for performance"
When ticked This makes dithering done in gamma light which in this case doesn't yield the best results, although you may not notice the difference hence why it's ticked by default.
Basically untick everything on that page if you want the utmost quality.

Last edited by ryrynz; 13th December 2016 at 10:04.
ryrynz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th December 2016, 09:43   #41451  |  Link
Siso
Soul Seeker
 
Siso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 711
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
By default it's ticked, the title gives you your answer..
"Trade quality for performance"
Whwn ticked This makes dithering done in gamma light which in this case doesn't yield the best results, although you may not notice the difference hence why it's ticked by default.
Basically untick everything on that page if you want the utmost quality.
Thanks, will do
Siso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th December 2016, 12:31   #41452  |  Link
Magik Mark
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 666
Guys

Is there a way for reclock to follow the channel layout of the active device? For example, when using TV which has 2 channels, it would automatically switch to stereo. If you are using AVR with 6 channels, it would switch to 5.1 channel layout.

Right now I have to make changes in LAV audio decoder. It would be nice if it can be done automatically. I think sanear and mpc audio renderes do this.
__________________
Asus ProArt Z790 - 13th Gen Intel i9 - RTX 3080 - DDR5 64GB Predator - LG OLED C9 - Yamaha A3030 - Windows 11 x64 - PotPlayerr - Lav - MadVR
Magik Mark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th December 2016, 13:04   #41453  |  Link
sneaker_ger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,565
Try to un-tick "Enable mixing" in LAV Audio. But what does this have to do with madvr? Do you have this problem only with madvr but not with other video renderers?
sneaker_ger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th December 2016, 13:09   #41454  |  Link
Magik Mark
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 666
Quote:
Originally Posted by sneaker_ger View Post
Try to un-tick "Enable mixing" in LAV Audio. But what does this have to do with madvr? Do you have this problem only with madvr but not with other video renderers?


I know it has nothing to do with madvr. However, many madvr users are also using reclock. I thought maybe they can share their experience as well with this renderer.

Unticking doesn't help


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Asus ProArt Z790 - 13th Gen Intel i9 - RTX 3080 - DDR5 64GB Predator - LG OLED C9 - Yamaha A3030 - Windows 11 x64 - PotPlayerr - Lav - MadVR
Magik Mark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th December 2016, 15:54   #41455  |  Link
Q-the-STORM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 174
Well madVR has nothing to do with audio, so this is not really the place to ask....
but shouldn't this happen automatically? do you have reclock in exclusive mode?
Q-the-STORM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th December 2016, 16:14   #41456  |  Link
Patrik G
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Sweden
Posts: 58
SuperRes filter för chroma upscaling what does it do in practice?
i can see that with the almost too sharp NGU adding SuperRes makes the image less "messy".
resolution to the image is back again.

after some more testing NGU alone for chroma upscaling is on the limit to being too sharp.
and with a too sharp image resolution is lost.
SuperRes seems to bring down that artificial added sharpness to natural/correct levels.

anyway im going to use it

Last edited by Patrik G; 13th December 2016 at 20:55.
Patrik G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th December 2016, 17:11   #41457  |  Link
CruNcher
Registered User
 
CruNcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 4,926
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Super-XBR 150 vs NGU Very High

I feel NGU for chroma goes a bit overboard, super-xbr looks quite nice here.



Indeed. I should really evaluate it against NNEDI3 for some of my profiles.





Yeah, I wanted as as accurate as I could too, and huhn said the same thing to me. Like I said you only need it accurate "enough" which means if it only drops a frame every five plus hours and you never play anything over three hours you're never going to see a dropped frame. I haven't seen one since I've changed it and it's been glorious.

I might not have considered 24Hz had huhn not been so adamant about his preference for it.. The motion is just more clear at 24Hz on my plasma and really seems to pop.
It's more enjoyable and now I don't get any dropped frames so I reckon it's pretty much perfect.
How does the result looks compared to this sample

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/193279

and what was the actuall source input here ?
__________________
all my compares are riddles so please try to decipher them yourselves :)

It is about Time

Join the Revolution NOW before it is to Late !

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=168004
CruNcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th December 2016, 17:47   #41458  |  Link
Buckster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 18
any ideas to whether a AMD 460 or 1050/1050TI would cope with the new NGU chroma etc upscaling please ?

tried it on my gaming PC (overclocked 290) and am very impressed with the results

the HTPC I am considering does not have a PCI-E power connector, so a 460 or 1050Ti are about best I could fit in if I went that route

cheers
Buckster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th December 2016, 18:19   #41459  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,903
polaris is performing very bad with NGU.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th December 2016, 18:28   #41460  |  Link
Damien147
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckster View Post
any ideas to whether a AMD 460 or 1050/1050TI would cope with the new NGU chroma etc upscaling please ?

tried it on my gaming PC (overclocked 290) and am very impressed with the results

the HTPC I am considering does not have a PCI-E power connector, so a 460 or 1050Ti are about best I could fit in if I went that route

cheers
With rx 470 I can go till NGU med(maximum hd material) before having dropped frames but I am upscaling to 4k.

Last edited by Damien147; 13th December 2016 at 18:32.
Damien147 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:02.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.