madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[mogli]

@foozoor
No, it does not.

[foozoor]

Originally Posted by mogli

@foozoor
No, it does not.

Thanks! What about image enhancement and upscaling refinements?

[Manni]

Originally Posted by apgood

Haven't converted Gravity to mkv yet but PAN and hobbit unexpected journey. The 3D layers look correct and there are no out of sequence frames or anything like that.

Thanks. This is either thanks to Crimson, or because you can swap left/right eye in your projector. I can't do this on my JVC.

I'll try Crimson when I have a chance if no one else confirms AMD working on Catalyst.

[huhn]

Originally Posted by foozoor

Thanks! What about image enhancement and upscaling refinements?

image enhancement yes
upscaling refinement no

[sat4all]

Hi madshi,

Debanding algo introduce dropping frames no matter what i set on level. I can fix this only by checking: don't rerender frames when fade in/out is detected. (Must be always checked?)
I've tried with my both rigs: main htpc with an amd hd 7950 and intel nuc i5 hsw.

[nussman]

Seems like your GPU is to weak for your settings without "don't render frames when fade in/out ..."?
Take a look at the rendering times in the OSD.

[XTrojan]

Using MPC-HC, Lav 0.66 and I can't get 3D to work Frame-packed or SBS, it simply won't activate nor engage Multiview mode for SBS.

Container is .mkv with MVC 3D stream in it

I noticed you added a nits mode, I know this is something similar to HDR, but what does it do to rec709 movies? I'm not using backlight at max on my TV since rec709 colors get weird above certain nits or strains eyes.

I'm using a JS9000 Tv that should handle most 3D formats.

I'm mostly trying to get Multiview SBS mode to work since framepacked is limited to 1080p23 8bit and all that stuff, Multiview SBS is registered 2D at the PC, it's when it passes to the TV it converts to 3D by merging left+right which is same thing as merging original track + MVC track in framepacked.

[XTrojan]

I did a image edit to explain Full SBS easier.

This image is what the PC reports, the PC always thinks the movie is 2D, the TV will merge these two images into 3D. The PC will thus never be restricted by 3D setting limit such as 1080p23.

http://i.imgur.com/um8Lal8.jpg

Regarding the "mountain effect" on the image, this is the industry standard, the more you stretch the images from eachother (2D and MVC) to each eye the more of a 3D effect you get but also introducing other weird things such as crosstalk. Most TVs have a "3D depth setting" which will basically try to stretch these two images even more in frame-packed or SBS.

also yes, windowed mode doesn't work that well since there's space in the middle and when the TV merges them it becomes buggy, fullscreen is needed to avoid scaling issues.

Either way i can't get Full SBS or Framepacked 3D to work with MadVR as my post above states.

Edit2: When I mean "stretch" it's basically adding distance from both images, 1 image = 1 eye, add too much distance between them and your eyes will become asymmetrical, lol.

[Manni]

Originally Posted by XTrojan

Using MPC-HC, Lav 0.66 and I can't get 3D to work Frame-packed or SBS, it simply won't activate nor engage Multiview mode for SBS.

You need a recent nightly of LAV 0.67, 0.66 doesn't support 3D.

[Thunderbolt8]

bilateral chroma upsampling in madvr, is this actually adaptive bilateral sampling or fixed bilateral sampling?

[XTrojan]

Originally Posted by Manni

You need a recent nightly of LAV 0.67, 0.66 doesn't support 3D.

Ahh, i'll try testing it tonight then.

[aufkrawall]

Originally Posted by sat4all

Hi madshi,

Debanding algo introduce dropping frames no matter what i set on level. I can fix this only by checking: don't rerender frames when fade in/out is detected. (Must be always checked?)
I've tried with my both rigs: main htpc with an amd hd 7950 and intel nuc i5 hsw.

You need a very long queue for disabling that option, which is normal.

[XTrojan]

Got it to work, but how do you create a separate profile for 3D?

2160p 3D -> GPU can't keep up, frame drops
1080p framepacked -> 2D movies crash or switch to 1080p when I want them to switch to 2160p.

[sat4all]

Originally Posted by nussman

Seems like your GPU is to weak for your settings without "don't render frames when fade in/out ..."?
Take a look at the rendering times in the OSD.

Rendering time is ok:
HD 7950: 20 ms 1080p 》2160p with super-xbr image doubling and Reconstruction for chroma.
NUC: 3ms 1080p 》 1080p

[sat4all]

Originally Posted by aufkrawall

You need a very long queue for disabling that option, which is normal.

Thanks, I will give it a try.

[leeperry]

Originally Posted by har3inger

From what I can see, the superres for chroma is quite similar to the superres for image refinement right now. However, while the algorithm is great for luma, it's not good for chroma. In luma, superres enhances small details and edges by increasing contrast (darks become darker, lights become lighter at image transients), and the same happens to the chroma layers.

Actually I really enjoy how chroma & luma SR@4 work together on the very same EE as that makes PQ crispier, smoother and sharper without nasty halos. I'm not seeing any color fringing as I get with colored dithering. I also use Jinc AR for chroma so no amplified sxbr artifacts TYVM ^^

SuperRes is very visible in motion IME and the higher the fps the smoother it gets, too bad my HD7850 can't run them both together @4 on 1080p60 content

[madshi]

Originally Posted by CarlosCaco

I having a strange problem, if upscale a 720p video to 1366x768p monitor none of my upscaling refinements is activated, i don´t see the effects on image e and OSD don´t show any changes on reders times, on others versions below 89.19 this issue don´t happen

Yeah, there's a specific upscaling factor under which I don't apply the refinement. E.g. if you upscale only 1 pixel, refinement doesn't really make too much sense.

The logic is this: Upscaling refinement is meant to make sure that the upscaled image looks as near to the original image as possible. Which means that sharpening and stuff is really only needed if you upscale by a certain amount. If you find the original image already too soft, you can use image enhancements to sharpen the source.

The whole sharpening logic might be improved in a future version. I'm not sure yet how to make it more logical/intuitive yet, though.

Originally Posted by omarank

Before you implement these 3D methods, I would suggest to create a test build

I can't make a test build without implementing these 3D methods first.

Originally Posted by jmone

It is in 23.976 and one static SBS Image. Log at:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...3D%20Crash.zip

Thanks. But you didn't my question about refresh rates.

Originally Posted by Prinz

One thing to add: 4K TV's with passive 3D can show full 1080p resolution this way, because they have double the lines of 1080p.

So they switch left/right eye per 4K line? That would be rather nice.

Originally Posted by Manni

I can't say if the delay is constant or not. The way it's best described is in the thread I already linked to a couple of times. 3D is fine on static shot and gets wrong with motion due to the delay between the two eyes.

Can you reproduce this on your AMD rig? We have the same OS (Win 8.1), so you should have the same issue. If you don't, please give details of drivers, etc.

For testing/development I currently have my old projector throwing a small image on my development painted wall. It's not high quality enough to judge whether there's a delay or not. I can just judge whether there's any 3D effect at all or not.

Originally Posted by 6233638

I had a chance to look this up, and it seems that I was mistaken - the behavior I saw with the "wrong" profile being selected is actually working as intended.
http://bugs.madshi.net/view.php?id=349

The srcHeight/Width behavior was only changed for Zoom Control profiles (since that actually broke things) and not all profiles.
It's not what I would personally prefer, but I think your decision to handle it this way does make sense, so I'll keep using uncroppedSrcHeight/Width for the affected profiles.

Thanks for looking that up. Yeah, after reading my comment there, I think I still have the same view, so I don't think I want to change anything there.

Originally Posted by Aleksoid1978

I think you are right. You can try render as usually 2D picture and alternate lines for the left and right eyes(1 - left, 2 - right, 3 - left, 4 - right and so on.) Passive TV must from such image do 3D in half resolution for height(1080 -> 540).

You can try make test build - and i check it on my TV.

I'll give it a try, we'll see how it goes. Not sure yet if I can implement it this weekend. Maybe yes, maybe next weekend.

When using PowerDVD, does your TV know when PowerDVD switches into 3D mode and when not? Or does the TV not know?

Originally Posted by huhn

this may work but what the TV is subsampling. after that there is nothing worth calling 3D/in the chroma channel.

this issue doesn't exist with top bottom and side by side.

You're quite right. However, luckily for row interleaved 3D 4:2:2 doesn't have this issue because 4:2:2 is only subsampled horizontally. So there's only a problem if the TV converts back to 4:2:0. As long as it at least stays in 4:2:2, there's no problem (for row interleaved 3D). Column interleaved 3D would already suffer when going back from 4:4:4 to 4:2:2, but right now I don't think I'll implement column interleaved 3D, anyway.

Originally Posted by omarank

Yes, not only just 4K Passive TVs, all Passive 3D TVs have a special coating which, for example in case of Row Interleaved Type, polarizes the light coming from odd lines in one way and from even lines in the opposite way. Passive 3D glasses have corresponding polarization filters which ensure that one eye sees just the odd lines and the other eye sees the even lines only. As the odd lines comprise View 1 and even lines View 2, the user gets 3D vision when they put on the Passive glasses.

Are there (m)any passive displays with column interleaved 3D? I think the usual LCD panels (from LG etc) are all row interleaved?

Originally Posted by 4h4h270

frame drop is from reclock, disabled, everything goes fine.

I have a problem, I always get 1 frame drop every 30+sec, I checked with gpu-z the load is only 40%~50%.
I tried lighter algorithm and raise every quene size, nothing changed.

Are you talking about the Ctrl+J OSD saying "1 frame drop every ..."? Or are you actually getting those frame drops (OSD increasing "dropped frames" statistic regularly every 30+ seconds)? The former is just a rough estimate by the OSD. The key statistic is the "dropped frames" line. As long as that doesn't increase that often, you're fine. If that one does increase regularly, you may have to use custom resolutions to optimize the display mode's refresh rate.

Originally Posted by apgood

Only got 2 3D movies in mkv (rest still in iso format), but tested them in Mede8er as well and they need the eye swapping setting set there as well, so I suspect it might be something in MakeMKV that I did when I created them.

If I get a chance I'll try creating some more to see (and make sure I'm running the latest version of MakeMKV).

As mentioned earlier, it could be a bug in MakeMKV or in LAV. I suppose probably nevcairiel will get to the bottom fo that. If you have this problem for *ALL* movies, that would be somewhat weird, though. It would suggest that either LAV or madVR always output frames in the wrong order. In that case it could also be a bug in madVR.

Originally Posted by Manni

Thanks. This is either thanks to Crimson, or because you can swap left/right eye in your projector. I can't do this on my JVC.

I'll try Crimson when I have a chance if no one else confirms AMD working on Catalyst.

Please let me know the results. If you still have a delay with Crimson, I can try to implement a delay option. I'd rather avoid spending the time, though, if Crimson already fixes that issue.

Originally Posted by sat4all

Debanding algo introduce dropping frames no matter what i set on level. I can fix this only by checking: don't rerender frames when fade in/out is detected. (Must be always checked?)

Originally Posted by aufkrawall

You need a very long queue for disabling that option, which is normal.

^ aufkrawall is right. That specific options requires you to increase your GPU/CPU queue sizes a bit.

Originally Posted by XTrojan

I noticed you added a nits mode, I know this is something similar to HDR, but what does it do to rec709 movies?

Nothing, it's only for HDR content.

Originally Posted by XTrojan

I'm using a JS9000 Tv that should handle most 3D formats.

I'm mostly trying to get Multiview SBS mode to work since framepacked is limited to 1080p23 8bit and all that stuff, Multiview SBS is registered 2D at the PC, it's when it passes to the TV it converts to 3D by merging left+right which is same thing as merging original track + MVC track in framepacked.

Your display is active 3D, though, right? In that case I think frame packed 3D should be the best option.

Originally Posted by XTrojan

Got it to work, but how do you create a separate profile for 3D?

2160p 3D -> GPU can't keep up, frame drops
1080p framepacked -> 2D movies crash or switch to 1080p when I want them to switch to 2160p.

The next build will have a "3D" profile boolean variable.

I'll try to improve display mode switching for 3D in the next build. The crash is a bug in the NVidia drivers, though. We should be able to work around in your setup by avoiding to play 2D movies with frame packed output. Simply switching to 1080p23 for frame packed 3D output, and switching to 2160pXX for 2D playback should do the trick, I think.

Originally Posted by Thunderbolt8

bilateral chroma upsampling in madvr, is this actually adaptive bilateral sampling or fixed bilateral sampling?

What's the actual difference? Your question implies that "adaptive bilateral sampling" and "fixed bilateral sampling" were known terms that exactly describe a specific algorithm, but I don't think it's as simple as that.

Originally Posted by leeperry

Actually I really enjoy how chroma & luma SR@4 work together on the very same EE as that makes PQ crispier, smoother and sharper without nasty halos. I'm not seeing any color fringing as I get with colored dithering. I also use Jinc AR for chroma so no amplified sxbr artifacts TYVM ^^

SuperRes is very visible in motion IME and the higher the fps the smoother it gets, too bad my HD7850 can't run them both together @4 on 1080p60 content

Have you tried "reconstruction - soft" instead of Jinc?

[Prinz]

Originally Posted by madshi

So they switch left/right eye per 4K line? That would be rather nice.

Yes they do exactly that.

[omarank]

Originally Posted by madshi

Column interleaved 3D would already suffer when going back from 4:4:4 to 4:2:2, but right now I don't think I'll implement column interleaved 3D, anyway.


Are there (m)any passive displays with column interleaved 3D? I think the usual LCD panels (from LG etc) are all row interleaved?

I don’t know. Well, the thing is, any software that offers Row Interleaved output, offers Column Interleaved as well. Below is a quote from AMD HD3D_Whitepaper that you may find interesting:

“The column interleaving mode is convenient as some auto-stereoscopic panels (such as those developed by Sharp and others) use a parallax barrier to ensure that alternating columns are viewed by the left and right eyes. Content that is column-interleaved can thus be presented without any decoding.”

[Thunderbolt8]

Originally Posted by madshi

What's the actual difference? Your question implies that "adaptive bilateral sampling" and "fixed bilateral sampling" were known terms that exactly describe a specific algorithm, but I don't think it's as simple as --that.

I dont know, but at least the conclusion here might suggest this: http://www.interdigital.com/download...62284525000224