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Old 2nd December 2019, 18:39   #57961  |  Link
mark0077
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Hi guys, I see a lot of you now own the LG C9 and Nvidia cards, and there's an LG OLED with madVR thread started I see. I just got a C9, and its extremely hard to find the best info for the C9 setup for PCs / madVR in terms of what modes to use (PC Label On/Off, Game Mode On/Off, Ultra HD Deep Color On/Off) and use of RGB or ycbcr4XX, 8 / 12 bit output, different results in 60hz vs refresh rates, warm 2 vs medium(default) temperature when in game mode. There is one thing I think there is consensus on, and that's that there is confusion and different information in various threads on the best setup

Does anyone know where the best source of latest information is as I see some really good discussions in this thread a few posts back from a few of you, regarding best setups to avoid banding with HDR and SDR movies given the limitations of this TV in various modes? Should we start a LG C9 specific thread here do you think, or are existing ones on the likes of avforums the best place to go?

It almost feels like if we had a really well defined set of tests we want to benchmark the various combinations against, we could capture all of the results somehow. I started to do this myself with a hdr10 banding rotating gradients video but find it hard to tell if the gradients I am seeing should be visible, or if what I'm seeing is as good as it gets (without turning on something like smooth gradation). Its very hard to objectively compare each combination of settings, as there are so many variables, driver versions, madVR calibration/hdr/dithering settings etc etc.

Last edited by mark0077; 2nd December 2019 at 18:47.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 21:07   #57962  |  Link
Asmodian
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I don't like that spinning gradient test, use the full screen 16 bit gradients instead. I found testing to be relatively straightforward, the different options do not influence each other very much so you can test them individually.

I did a lot of testing myself so I am pretty confident in my settings, assuming no banding and full resolution chroma are priorities. If you don't mind YCbCr 422 then madVR seems somewhat less important though still useful, but you do get more flexibility with regards to HDMI modes, etc. The only contradictory advice I have seen is people saying what should be ideal theoretically, without actually testing it.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 22:00   #57963  |  Link
Morgin187
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I think we need one for Samsung qled Q9fn too. If anyone got any tips with this tv and madvr please let us know. The tv is 10 bit display so is it better to have NVidia control panel set to rgb 12 bit (NVidia only has 8 and 12 bit option). Or is ycbr 444 8 bit better for movies and gaming.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 22:04   #57964  |  Link
mark0077
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Great thank you so much for your guides and posts. So having read your recent posts, and used a grayscale gradient as my desktop, where input lag and full resolution chroma are important, it looks best as follows (I think as you have concluded around the color format / depth).

# LG C9 Itself
HDMI Input Label: PC
HDMI ULTRA HD Deep Colour: On
Picture Mode: Game (User) with the following changes to the defaults
Black Level: Low
Sharpness: 0
Colour: 50
White Balance: Warm 2 (Not sure why it defaults to Medium here)

# Nvidia Control Panel
Output colour format: YCbCr444
Output colour depth: 8bpc (its crazy that higher actually does look worse, but its true)
Output dynamic range: Limited

# madVR
Display Output Levels: PC Levels (0-255)
Native Bitdepth: Auto
Calibration: disable calibration controls for this display
Reduce banding strength: low
Reduce banding strength during fade in/out: high
Use Direct3D 11 for presentation: On
Present a frame for every VSync: On
Dithering: Error Diffusion - option 2 (colored noise and change dither for every frame enabled)
trade quality: All off

# Refresh Rates
I see you have mentioned that you use 60hz and smooth motion. What motion test are you able to best spot the judder? I would like to reproduce, or is just your typical 24p judder?

I was setting up madVR to switch modes to 2160p23 / 2160p59 and worked quite well. I actually noticed by default 2160p24 shows really noticeably bad banding with the gradient-perceptual tests (and I checked in Nvidia CP and it seems 24p mode doesn't have the option for YCbCr444, switching to 2160p23 and and its there and the banding is gone).

I'm not sure if something like CRU will help me create a 2160p24 mode, that supports YCbCr444.

Similarly I have added a custom mode in madVR for 47.95hz and it works well, but again its stuck in RGB mode only.

Last edited by mark0077; 3rd December 2019 at 20:35.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 00:50   #57965  |  Link
WuNgUn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark0077 View Post
Great thank you so much for your guides and posts. So having read your recent posts, and used a grayscale gradient as my desktop, where input lag and full resolution chroma are important, it looks best as follows (I think as you have concluded around the color format / depth).

# LG C9 Itself
HDMI Input Label: PC
HDMI ULTRA HD Deep Colour: On
Picture Mode: Game (User) with the following changes to the defaults
Black Level: Low
Sharpness: 0
Colour: 50
White Balance: Warm 2 (Not sure why it defaults to Medium here)

# Nvidia Control Panel
Output colour format: YCbCr444
Output colour depth: 8bpc (its crazy that higher actually does look worse, but its true)
Output dynamic range: Limited

# madVR
Display Output Levels: PC Levels (0-255)
Native Bitdepth: Auto
Calibration: disable calibration controls for this display
Reduce banding strength: low
Reduce banding strength during fade in/out: high
Use Direct3D 11 for presentation: On
Present a frame for every VSync: On
Dithering: Error Diffusion - option 2 (colored noise and change dither for every frame enabled)
trade quality: All off

# Refresh Rates
I see you have mentioned that you use 60hz and smooth motion. What motion test are you able to best spot the judder? I would like to reproduce.

I was setting up madVR to switch modes to 2160p23 / 2160p59 and worked quite well. I actually noticed by default 2160p24 shows really noticeably bad banding with the gradient-perceptual tests (and I checked in Nvidia CP and it seems 24p mode doesn't have the option for YCbCr444, switching to 2160p23 and and its there and the banding is gone).

I'm not sure if something like CRU will help me create a 2160p24 mode, that supports YCbCr444.
Selecting 23Hz in your display modes for 23.976Hz media is the proper setting to use...
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Old 3rd December 2019, 00:54   #57966  |  Link
WuNgUn
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So I have a bunch of 10 bit, HDR 4K media, and I'm unsure of what colour settings to run...
YCbCr 422 gives me 10 bit option, but dynamic range is "limited"...? How can this be? Is it a HDMI bandwidth issue?
If I run 23.97Hz refresh (which should free up bandwidth), it doesn't offer a "full" option...
So, is RGB 8 bit colour better, as it give full dynamic range, even though my 10 bit media falls back to 8 bit?
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Old 3rd December 2019, 01:04   #57967  |  Link
huhn
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YCbCr with HDMI is always limited and you can ignore this part and the TV knows this so it can't mismatch them.
but that not really important because you should use RGB if it is available and if your device properly supports it full range RGB because that's just better on a PC.

bit deep on media can be pretty much ignored it doesn't matter if your device supports 10 bit properly with no back draws you would get very similar benefits using an 8 bit file.

but the only difference between 8 bit RGB output and 10 bit RGB output is the noise level. can you see the noise from dithering at your viewing position?
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Old 3rd December 2019, 01:10   #57968  |  Link
WuNgUn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
can you see the noise from dithering at your viewing position?
Are you saying there will be visible artifacts from 10 bit media running at 8 bit output?
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Old 3rd December 2019, 01:20   #57969  |  Link
WuNgUn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magik Mark View Post
If I'm playing 4k video and refresh switch is on, it follows that of 1080ps refresh rates and resolution, effectively downscaling the video. I want madvr to follow the refresh rate of the video's resolution and stop the downscaling

Tried profile switching and it's not working. It's still following that of 1080ps


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Simply list your refresh rates with 2160p as the resolution for all of them.
2160p23, 2160p25, 2160p50,etc...
Your refresh rates will match your media and you'll stay at 2160p
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Old 3rd December 2019, 01:32   #57970  |  Link
huhn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WuNgUn View Post
Are you saying there will be visible artifacts from 10 bit media running at 8 bit output?
it's noise the same as with 8 bit content and the "same" that will be produced by the Tv panel because most are 8bit+frc anyway.

this is the noise i'm talking about:
https://abload.de/img/gradient-16bit.png_sn3wjco.png
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Old 3rd December 2019, 01:38   #57971  |  Link
WuNgUn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
it's noise the same as with 8 bit content and the "same" that will be produced by the Tv panel because most are 8bit+frc anyway.



this is the noise i'm talking about:

https://abload.de/img/gradient-16bit.png_sn3wjco.png
I'm afraid I don't know what I'm looking at/looking for in that image... Lol
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Old 3rd December 2019, 01:43   #57972  |  Link
huhn
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well the noise is there but human eyes can't see it.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 01:44   #57973  |  Link
WuNgUn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
well the noise is there but human eyes can't see it.
Lol
I'll ask my dog if he can see any noise.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 02:45   #57974  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WuNgUn View Post
I'm afraid I don't know what I'm looking at/looking for in that image
Please just reply without quoting entire posts, you can edit them down or just not quote at all if posting directly after the person you're replying to.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 02:54   #57975  |  Link
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Yeah, I edited down the longer quotes...
User preferences usually don't notify them if they're not quoted...
And two of my quotes/posts weren't directly after the OP, so....
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Old 3rd December 2019, 06:28   #57976  |  Link
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Well I guess I could toss my findings into the ring regarding LG OLED color banding in PC Mode (I have a C8). I tested using Game of Thrones Season 8 Episode 3 4k HDR "The Long Night". It is an awesome test for color banding. And no matter what I threw at the TV's PC Mode in terms of GPU output YCrCb/RGB/8bpc/10bpc/12bpc... it was all a mess. Too hard to enjoy. So I have come to the painful conclusion that I just need to bite the bullet and use the plain old HDMI label. I settled on using RGB Full 10-Bit output from my 5700 XT.

I also set chroma upscaling to Bicubic 60 and then cranked up the HDR settings instead of wasting the horsepower on chroma. I can see a slight difference in quality, but the horrible banding is much more of a noticeable PQ problem than sub-sampled chroma is.

QB
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Old 3rd December 2019, 08:55   #57977  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WuNgUn View Post
Yeah, I edited down the longer quotes...
User preferences usually don't notify them if they're not quoted...
And two of my quotes/posts weren't directly after the OP, so....
There is no notification on quotes or mentions on this forum anyway, so thats not a reason to do it.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 16:02   #57978  |  Link
WuNgUn
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
There is no notification on quotes or mentions on this forum anyway, so thats not a reason to do it.
There is if you use Tapatalk on your phone!
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Old 3rd December 2019, 20:39   #57979  |  Link
Asmodian
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I think that is a pretty small percentage of the user base though, and the forum itself does not do any notifications based on quotes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark0077 View Post
Dithering: Error Diffusion - option 2 (colored noise and change dither for every frame enabled)
I prefer ordered dithering on my C7 and C9. I also much prefer colored noise and change dither for every frame disabled.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark0077 View Post
I see you have mentioned that you use 60hz and smooth motion. What motion test are you able to best spot the judder? I would like to reproduce, or is just your typical 24p judder?
I used panning scenes in 23.976 fps anime to decide there were some motion issues that went away when using 60 Hz + smooth motion. I do not have any 24 fps content. I am much less sure of this, banding and chroma resolution are easy to test but I am less sure of the results with motion tests.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark0077 View Post
Similarly I have added a custom mode in madVR for 47.95hz and it works well, but again its stuck in RGB mode only.
Another reason I just use 60 Hz + smooth motion. The trouble around mode with frame rate changes never really goes away with regular installs of new drivers, new Windows versions, etc.
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Last edited by Asmodian; 3rd December 2019 at 20:51.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 22:02   #57980  |  Link
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I'm thinkin' about buying a new pc monitor 34 inch 3440x1440p, and I was wondering which nvidia card will be sufficient for using NGU Sharp High for image doubling. I watch only 1080p movies. The current card I have is GTX 1050 Ti.
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