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23rd September 2018, 18:33 | #52661 | Link | |||||||||||
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Is there an easy way for me to reproduce the problem? I'm not sure if I want to install lots and lots of stuff and carefully fine tune everything to match your setup, just to be able to reproduce the issue... Quote:
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You do have dithering enabled in madVR? Have you tried setting your display properties manually to 8bit in the madVR settings? |
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23rd September 2018, 19:10 | #52662 | Link | |
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Your PC should be in PC mode for SDR content, and Home Theatre for HDR content. I think I mentioned this a few months ago but the other way round and you replied back then - If I watch HDR content on PC mode the colours are washed out, and very vivid (almost increased reds) in Home Theatre. So it looks like you have the reverse problem, not sure what TV processing you need Also not sure why you need it fixing in MadVr when by your own admission changing MadVR settings fixes it |
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23rd September 2018, 19:36 | #52663 | Link | |
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by "next", what I meant was that I can start playing a video at any point and the playback is OK UNTIL the time when the next subtitle is to be presented, then the video hangs - i.e. if I started playing from the beginning, the video would hang at the first For environment, all I have is Win10, AMD cards (as described), Zoom Player, LAV and XySubFilter versions as described. Playback is to monitor or TV (thru receiver) via HDMI. Settings to use XySubFilter in ZP are: Playback->Video->Video Renderer: MadVR Playback->Video->Subtitles->Use XySubFilter...whenever possible: CHECKED Extra Info: I am NOT using MadVR Full-screen Exclusive (FSE) mode (enable automatic FSE: UNCHECKED) Original Post Updated to show issue found with AND without LAV HW accel engaged, and also found on Intel GPU platform too. Last edited by magic144; 23rd September 2018 at 21:40. Reason: added link to original post |
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23rd September 2018, 23:02 | #52664 | Link | |
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Great! Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like it would do much to help output in HDR since it sounds like it'll fight with the TV's dynamic tone-mapping. BTW, HDR pixel tone-mapped HDR output is broken in the latest version, the colors are too dark and red toned. The video card bit depth output. I want to configure it so that if nvidia outputs 12-bit, madVR configures for 10-bit display. If nvidia outputs 8-bit, such as for 60Hz, madVR would set the display for 8-bit. Right now I'm doing it with refresh rate, but sometimes nvidia would screw up and output 8-bit at 23Hz. |
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23rd September 2018, 23:49 | #52665 | Link | ||||
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Also, please create 2-3 freeze reports from this situation, please (Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Break, IIRC). Quote:
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23rd September 2018, 23:50 | #52666 | Link |
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So here's a little HDR tone mapping comparison:
1) "Old" algorithm (v0.92.14). 2) "New" algorithm (v0.92.16+). 3) "Dumb" algorithm (used by many TVs). Old - | - New - | - Dumb - | - Batman vs Superman (1) Old - | - New - | - Dumb - | - Batman vs Superman (2) Old - | - New - | - Dumb - | - Goblet of Fire Old - | - New - | - Dumb - | - Order of the Phoenix Old - | - New - | - Dumb - | - LG Chess Demo Old - | - New - | - Dumb - | - Life of Pi Old - | - New - | - Dumb - | - Life Untouched Demo Old - | - New - | - Dumb - | - Mad Max Old - | - New - | - Dumb - | - Pan (1) Old - | - New - | - Dumb - | - Pan (2) Old - | - New - | - Dumb - | - Samsung Wonderland 2 Demo Old - | - New - | - Dumb - | - Sony Camp Demo Old - | - New - | - Dumb - | - White Dress Demo Old (Gamut Clip) - | - Old (RGB Clip) - | - New - | - Dumb - | - Atomic Blonde Furthermore, I've tried to do a comparison between the latest madVR vs mpv builds (shinchiro, 2018-09-16). To level the playing field, I've added igv's SSimDownscaler script to mpv. Interestingly, mpv shows pretty dramatic differences, depending on whether the "compute-peak" frame luminance measurements are enabled or disabled. For your interested, I'm showing you both variants. Generally, it seems that mpv produces rather dark results, at least for the stress test scenes I like to test with. So for the comparison to make more sense, I'm including not only madVR's and mpv's default target peak values, but I'm also adding a manually selected higher target nits value for madVR which roughly matches the darker images produced by mpv. mpv 100 nits - | - mpv 100 nits with measurements - | - madVR 200 nits - | - madVR 2000 nits - | - Batman vs Superman (1) mpv 100 nits - | - mpv 100 nits with measurements - | - madVR 200 nits - | - madVR 0450 nits - | - Batman vs Superman (2) mpv 100 nits - | - mpv 100 nits with measurements - | - madVR 200 nits - | - madVR 1200 nits - | - Goblet of Fire mpv 100 nits - | - mpv 100 nits with measurements - | - madVR 200 nits - | - madVR 1700 nits - | - Order of the Phoenix mpv 100 nits - | - mpv 100 nits with measurements - | - madVR 200 nits - | - madVR 0350 nits - | - LG Chess Demo mpv 100 nits - | - mpv 100 nits with measurements - | - madVR 200 nits - | - madVR 0800 nits - | - Life of Pi mpv 100 nits - | - mpv 100 nits with measurements - | - madVR 200 nits - | - madVR 0700 nits - | - Life Untouched Demo mpv 100 nits - | - mpv 100 nits with measurements - | - madVR 200 nits - | - madVR 1200 nits - | - Mad Max mpv 100 nits - | - mpv 100 nits with measurements - | - madVR 200 nits - | - madVR 1200 nits - | - Pan (1) mpv 100 nits - | - mpv 100 nits with measurements - | - madVR 200 nits - | - madVR 1800 nits - | - Pan (2) mpv 100 nits - | - mpv 100 nits with measurements - | - madVR 200 nits - | - madVR 1300 nits - | - Samsung Wonderland 2 Demo mpv 100 nits - | - mpv 100 nits with measurements - | - madVR 200 nits - | - madVR 1100 nits - | - Sony Camp Demo mpv 100 nits - | - mpv 100 nits with measurements - | - madVR 200 nits - | - madVR 3500 nits - | - White Dress Demo mpv 100 nits - | - mpv 100 nits with measurements - | - madVR 200 nits - | - madVR 0280 nits - | - Atomic Blonde I've also tried tweaking mpv to produce brighter images, by reducing the target peak, but doing so results in clipping, so I can't recommend going lower than the default 100 nits. See here: mpv 100 nits - | - mpv 50 nits - | - Life Of Pi |
23rd September 2018, 23:53 | #52667 | Link |
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I am getting the JVC magenta bug with DVBViewer (50Hz) now. The magenta bug was supposed to be fixed by not sending HDR meta data. But I still get it even though I unchecked "send HDR meta data". I also noticed the "apply" button does not get active when toggeling the "send HDR meta data" checkbox. Could this be a bug?
Beside that I love the HDR improvements NoTechi edit should have noted that I am on sat3 testbuild Last edited by NoTechi; 24th September 2018 at 00:00. |
24th September 2018, 01:37 | #52668 | Link | |
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There was no way I was going to change my HDMI mode every time I wanted to play a HDR movie though mate, I would have still gone with the calibration in MADVR. Update your SIG with your details. give us some idea of your full setup and processing chain and lets see if we can get to the bottom of it. Sound to me like you dont have something setup right somewhere, if colours are washed out, HDR has always worked fine in all modes for me.
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24th September 2018, 07:11 | #52669 | Link | |
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i really like how the over all picture in madvr looke way more pop and more live than mpv, i have play some youtube hdr video with latest madVR build, and what i can say that you have to see to believe how stuning result that madvr tone mapping do, but Looks like madvr Insists as Always when doing thing it doing it in the best way ever, This is a wonderful work at all. Last edited by ABDO; 24th September 2018 at 07:17. |
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24th September 2018, 09:13 | #52670 | Link |
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@Madshi which settings (and which target peak) were you using for the new algo in your comparison? It looks overprocessed/oversharpened and I don't like what it does to the grain in the picture, for example in the background of the BvsS shot. That's not what I see here, but it might be because I don't use extreme values in the settings (I use balanced/low). Just curious to know which settings cause this. And thanks again for all your good work, it's been quite a journey to get here!
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24th September 2018, 09:46 | #52671 | Link | |||
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FWIW, I believe the grain in BvsS is in the source. You'd see the same grain strength on a perfect 10,000nits display. So madVR simply faithfully reproduces it. |
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24th September 2018, 10:51 | #52672 | Link | |
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I know the grain is in the source (and I don't mind that), I just don't like what MadVr does to it in that instance with the new algo. If you compare the new algo with either old or dumb, you'll see what I mean. It exacerbates the grain due to perceived oversharpening/overprocessing. Anyway, I certainly don't see this here with my settings in BT2020/DCI-P3 (balanced/low/600nits), which is what I would use for a 4000nits title like BvsS on my 100nits projector, so all is good .
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Win11 Pro x64 b23H2 Ryzen 5950X@4.5Ghz 32Gb@3600 Zotac 3090 24Gb 551.33 madVR/LAV/jRiver/MyMovies/CMC Denon X8500HA>HD Fury VRRoom>TCL 55C805K Last edited by Manni; 24th September 2018 at 10:53. |
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24th September 2018, 10:54 | #52673 | Link | |
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I sent you a PM with links to the logs I just created. I created the freeze logs in release (NOT debug) mode. Curiously, in debug mode, the video did not hang, but instead turned purple when the first sub was presented!! In any case I generated the debug log from that condition when it occurred. To gather the debug log, I enabled debug mode, then started up a video in the player and toggled the subtitles until the VobSub stream was active, saw it go purple, waited about 20s then exited the player. Let me know if you need any more info. Thanks! |
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24th September 2018, 14:06 | #52674 | Link |
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To anyone who has an LG Oled:
In the service menu at "13. Oled" there is an option called "Module HDR". By default it's set to "normal" and if you set it to "on" it will increase SDR peak brightness, though I'm not quite sure if it reaches HDR brightness. I don't have a meter so I can only eyeball it and I feel like it's a hint below HDR peak. But if anyone with a meter who can can access the service menu would be willing to measure SDR peak brightness with this tweak I'd be interested in hearing the results. With this it might be beneficial to use madVR's HDR to SDR instead of passthrough. To access the service menu you need a phone with an IR blaster and the app AnyMote. |
24th September 2018, 14:09 | #52675 | Link | |
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When I was comparing passthrough with convert HDR to SDR at 120 nits + are you nuts. I had the feeling both pictures are actually very similar with madVR doing it better so I wouldn't say that peak brightness in HDR vs convert HDR to SDR was that big of a difference. If I set the nits to 300-480 or even 200-250 content is unwatchable, just too dark and it's clear from the first look this is not how the picture is supposed to look. On the other hand setting this at only 120 nits seems like too low and pointless? Last edited by creativeopinion; 24th September 2018 at 14:17. |
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24th September 2018, 14:13 | #52676 | Link | |
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The new algo simply reconstructs the original distance (on a perceptional scale) between the grain dots. There's no exacerbation, no oversharpening and no overprocessing going on here at all. You can't use a softened image (old/dumb) as a reference for how grain should be reproduced. To sum up: The new algo does not exacerbate the grain. The old algo and dumb mode soften it. Thanks, I'll have a look. |
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24th September 2018, 14:17 | #52677 | Link | ||
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Technically, UHD Blu-Ray defines exactly how bright each rendered pixel should look like, and if you choose 120 nits, you're watching the content brighter than it was meant to be watched. However, it's your right to exceed the intended brightness, if you prefer it that way. And if you have a lot of ambient light in your room, it might make sense. |
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24th September 2018, 14:31 | #52678 | Link |
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I would if my colormeter weren't broken. I have to wait until I have a new one. Then I will test it. I am also very interested in madvr's tone mapping, but haven't tied it yet with my LG C8 oled
Any ideas whats good settings to start testing with on an oled? My TV's SD mode is calibrated to 140 nits. I think I heard about a setting for deactivating the tv's tone mapping. I will search for the solution and will let you know... @madshi: If there's a way to deactivate the tv's tonemapping in hdr mode, would it be possible to trigger the tv's hdr mode after madvr has done it's tonemapping? Does madvr does madvr completely convert the hdr signal to a sd colorspace and sends an sdr signal?
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Intel i5 6600, 16 GB DDR4, AMD Vega RX56 8 GB, Windows 10 x64, Kodi DS Player 17.6, MadVR (x64), LAV Filters (x64), XySubfilter .746 (x64) LG 4K OLED (65C8D), Denon X-4200 AVR, Dali Zensor 5.1 Set Last edited by Sunset1982; 24th September 2018 at 14:41. |
24th September 2018, 14:44 | #52679 | Link | |
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Just to clarify, I'm not used to look at pictures with these settings, and as I'm familiar with all the improvements in the new algo I was surprised to see what looked like a downside as I had not noticed/experienced it before, which is why I asked about the settings used. If the old algo/dumb do indeed soften the picture with these settings, then it's one more benefit for the new algo By the way, I apologize I only pointed this out and not how great the algo is. I have little time at the moment and was only continuing the discussion we've had over the last few months in the other thread, without realizing/remembering that this was fairly new here. I didn't point or list the many benefits of the new algo because I thought they would be obvious to anyone (not only in this very example of BvsS, but in all the other screenshots you have selected), and because I'm familiar with them after weeks and months of testing. I thought that thanking you for all your good work would make this obvious, but in case it isn't, I'd like to clarify for anyone who wasn't following the testing done in the other thread that I'm over the moon with the new algo, and that I'm neither using "dumb" or passthrough, nor the old algo anymore, and certainly don't regret them. Just in case anyone could misread my comment for what it wasn't. Keep up the good work, and thanks again for bringing us the best HDR to SDR conversion ever!
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Win11 Pro x64 b23H2 Ryzen 5950X@4.5Ghz 32Gb@3600 Zotac 3090 24Gb 551.33 madVR/LAV/jRiver/MyMovies/CMC Denon X8500HA>HD Fury VRRoom>TCL 55C805K Last edited by Manni; 24th September 2018 at 15:10. |
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24th September 2018, 14:53 | #52680 | Link |
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I get back again to MadVR 0.92.16 version due to cropping bars.The feature is really important,especially to 1080p or 720p movies.I have to give up MadVR0.92.14 version.
Now im gonna ask all of guys which image quality is better,30HZ luma>NGU soft(high) and 60hz luma>NGU soft(high)<Bicubic 150 AR ? Thanka a lot in advance. ======================= Cpu 8450x3 ,video card 1050 4K HDR quantum dot TV set |
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direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling |
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