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Old 24th March 2018, 13:24   #521  |  Link
bstrobl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by easyfab View Post
aomenc is real slow for the moment and with cpu-used 2 . I won't try 1080p file for the moment =p
I was expecting a lot slower to be honest . But as long as the devs can get slightly better quality at roughly the same cpu encode required as VP9 we will have a decent codec on our hands.
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Old 24th March 2018, 14:56   #522  |  Link
MasterNobody
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How about adding disabling psy-rd for x264 to the mix i.e. `--psy-rd 0` and adding `--aq-mode 2`: https://www.sendspace.com/file/qdj71j
At such bitrates you SHOULD disable --psy-rd in its current form.

Last edited by MasterNobody; 24th March 2018 at 15:03.
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Old 24th March 2018, 17:06   #523  |  Link
easyfab
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Yes, you're right. I only set preset in previous encode and leave others settings to default. I never encode at so low bitrate, it was only for a small test.

for info, with --psy-rd 0 --aq-mode 2 :

x264 :
SSIM All:0.952115 (13.197976)
PSNR average:37.005003
VMAF score = 95.521538

x265 :
SSIM All:0.956373 (13.602420)
PSNR average:38.090090
VMAF score = 96.459293
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Old 25th March 2018, 18:05   #524  |  Link
JohnLai
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Nobody post the news?

https://twitter.com/mattication/stat...74873316982784

https://aomediacodec.github.io/av1-spec/
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Old 25th March 2018, 18:22   #525  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Some random unknown person tweeting a claim that its finished doesn't seem overly convincing. The spec still has a huge draft warning on top, afterall, and the github repo behind it is still changing daily.
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Old 25th March 2018, 21:10   #526  |  Link
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Are they still using "Golden Frames"? Shouldn't the bframe patents have expired by now?
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Old 25th March 2018, 21:42   #527  |  Link
bstrobl
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Some random unknown person tweeting a claim that its finished doesn't seem overly convincing. The spec still has a huge draft warning on top, afterall, and the github repo behind it is still changing daily.
There are currently only 3 bugs pertaining to the bitstream itself that need to be finished: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/aomedia/...mary&cells=ids

So it should be close to being done.
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Old 26th March 2018, 00:09   #528  |  Link
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https://bitmovin.com/av1-multi-codec-dash-dataset/
https://bitmovin.com/cool-new-video-...ts-coming-av1/
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Old 26th March 2018, 09:51   #529  |  Link
mzso
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The goal is to de-noise the initial content before encoding it and then re-adding the noise or grain effect before output during the decoding process. This way, the unnecessary information would not have to be transmitted at all and the overall load of data could be reduced substantially.
It would be even better if the second stupid step would be skipped.
I hope at least that decoders will have an option to disable artificial noise generation.
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Old 26th March 2018, 10:04   #530  |  Link
LigH
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Without adding it back, the result may look strangely artifical ("plastic") and may not cover compression artifacts well, I guess ... so I'm curious to see that, whether confirming my guess or not.
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Old 26th March 2018, 10:58   #531  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Grain/Noise-synthesis is not a new concept, H.264 supported it as well, but it never saw any use. This may be more advanced, but we'll see.

In any case, if you want to permanently denoise/degrain a movie, then just do so in pre-processing, but if its a codec feature then it should always be applied in decoding and the image reconstructed fully and properly. My decoders will certainly not offer any options to output a degraded image.
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Old 26th March 2018, 10:59   #532  |  Link
mzso
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Without adding it back, the result may look strangely artifical ("plastic") and may not cover compression artifacts well, I guess ... so I'm curious to see that, whether confirming my guess or not.
I think, only if the grain filter sucks and removes a lot of actual detail/pattern.
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Old 26th March 2018, 11:02   #533  |  Link
nevcairiel
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I think, only if the grain filter sucks and removes a lot of actual detail/pattern.
Such a grain filter is designed for coding efficiency, with the design in mind that the grain will be added back. It does not have to be designed to "look good" without the grain. So chances are that it won't.
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Old 26th March 2018, 13:35   #534  |  Link
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Grain/Noise-synthesis is not a new concept, H.264 supported it as well, but it never saw any use. This may be more advanced, but we'll see.
But optional, IIRC. I think basically no decoder implemented it.

Will it be mandatory for AV1?
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Old 26th March 2018, 15:21   #535  |  Link
mzso
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Such a grain filter is designed for coding efficiency, with the design in mind that the grain will be added back. It does not have to be designed to "look good" without the grain. So chances are that it won't.
Oh, well. As you said, we'll see.
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Old 26th March 2018, 15:32   #536  |  Link
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Originally Posted by sneaker_ger View Post
Are they still using "Golden Frames"? Shouldn't the bframe patents have expired by now?
Golden Frames are a technically elegant solution in their current form; there's no real reason to switch back to B-frames. There's a bit more bookkeeping overhead, which is largely squeezed out in the entropy coding, but the flip side is greater flexibility if the encoder chooses to use it. (VP9's implementation generally doesn't stray far from the classic P and B types, but AV1 supposedly uses them to greater effect by shuffling blocks around in more interesting ways.)
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Old 26th March 2018, 15:41   #537  |  Link
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But optional, IIRC. I think basically no decoder implemented it.

Will it be mandatory for AV1?
Absolutely, just like the in-loop filter.
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Old 27th March 2018, 08:12   #538  |  Link
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New upload: AOM v0.1.0-8892-g10b745615
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Old 27th March 2018, 11:36   #539  |  Link
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I wonder if aom will remain the only encoder/decoder, or whether third parties will develop something such as x264/x265 projects or maybe the ffmpeg people.

(Didn't there used to be an ffvp8 encoder? I don't see it listed in ffmpeg as a decoder/codec.)
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Old 27th March 2018, 11:49   #540  |  Link
LigH
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Of course, there will be several "Next Generation Video Codec" projects; e.g. there is a lively discussion about xvc in this board. ... BTW, where is schweinsz?

On2 VP8 / Google VP9 can be used in ffmpeg, no more need to develop an alternative decoder, I guess... a non-free "everything goes" ffmpeg build by the media-autobuild_suite contains:

Code:
 DEV.L. vp8                  On2 VP8 (decoders: vp8 libvpx vp8_cuvid vp8_qsv ) (encoders: libvpx )
 DEV.L. vp9                  Google VP9 (decoders: vp9 libvpx-vp9 vp9_cuvid ) (encoders: libvpx-vp9 )
I am quite confident that an ffmpeg with a more restricted license, which is allowed to be distributed (like zeranoe's selection), will contain them too.

But as long as the AV1 format is not "frozen", ffmpeg will at most "know about it" (maybe detect its presence in some containers with matching content type flags?); as codec it is not yet implemented.

Code:
 ..V.L. av1                  Alliance for Open Media AV1
Quoted output is part of ffmpeg -codecs
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Last edited by LigH; 27th March 2018 at 12:05.
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