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Old 4th February 2019, 23:46   #54581  |  Link
huhn
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nvidia has full support for the HDMI content type so try that. afaik AMD doesn't have an option for that maybe in registry like so many more options.
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Old 4th February 2019, 23:49   #54582  |  Link
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nvidia has full support for the HDMI content type so try that. afaik AMD doesn't have an option for that maybe in registry like so many more options.
What do you mean by hdmi content type.

I've set both outputs to RGB 32bit 8 bit full based on your previous recommendation ?
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Old 4th February 2019, 23:49   #54583  |  Link
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Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post
Yea, that's what I meant, create an HDR 3Dlut, but ONTOP of Dynamic Tonemapping, output HDR.

Do you know if this feature will be added in the future ?

Seems to be straightforward, is there a specific hitch that it's not already possible ?
I was going to answer your question earlier but missed it.

It is hard to use a 3D LUT this way because DisplayCAL enforces its own roll-off. I don't know how you would do it without excessive doubling processing. The 3D LUT could maybe correct the white balance and white point, but not alter the transfer function with its own roll-off.
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Old 5th February 2019, 00:00   #54584  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
I was going to answer your question earlier but missed it.

It is hard to use a 3D LUT this way because DisplayCAL enforces its own roll-off. I don't know how you would do it without excessive doubling processing. The 3D LUT could maybe correct the white balance and white point, but not alter the transfer function with its own roll-off.
Why does the tone map function only work with an SDR lut ?

For example, on many tvs, in HDR input mode, the Gamut is larger than its SDR mode.

So, after madvr does the tone map, instead of going to an sdr calibrated table before output, it will go to a wider hdr calibrated table.
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Old 5th February 2019, 00:07   #54585  |  Link
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Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post
What do you mean by hdmi content type.
It's an option in HDMI where the source can specify what type of content is sent, e.g. computer graphics/movie/photos/auto.
With NVIDIA you can change that setting in the control panel. Most TVs use a different kind if picture processing depending when that setting is on something other than auto.
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Old 5th February 2019, 00:15   #54586  |  Link
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how do you stop a TV from dynamic tone mapping in HDR mode.

if you do dynamic tone mapping and send this technically wrong image to the TV the TV will do again dynamic tone mapping making it even more wrong so waht'S the point of an 3D LUT here.

just set your Tv up for native gamut or send bt 2020 so it will use the full gamut.

who even told you there is an wider "calibration table" for HDR?

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What do you mean by hdmi content type.
http://abload.de/img/hdmi-content-typebtumj.png

first result in an search engine
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Old 5th February 2019, 00:17   #54587  |  Link
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Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
It's an option in HDMI where the source can specify what type of content is sent, e.g. computer graphics/movie/photos/auto.
With NVIDIA you can change that setting in the control panel. Most TVs use a different kind if picture processing depending when that setting is on something other than auto.
just so you know i have a PC monitor that is resyncing when it is on auto everytime a video is played and stopped.

so auto means nvidia or other software is able to actively change that.
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Old 5th February 2019, 02:31   #54588  |  Link
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
who even told you there is an wider "calibration table" for HDR?


http://abload.de/img/hdmi-content-typebtumj.png

first result in an search engine

It's not a wider table, but the gamut is wider and different between SDR and HDR modes.

Even in the various different sdr modes, tvs can have different gamuts.



If I set the HDMI content type on AUTO, what is it defaulting to when running madvr (Movie ? or Desktop Program)
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Old 5th February 2019, 05:11   #54589  |  Link
huhn
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no clue.

edit: madVR FSE is triggering "games" with FSE and i can't find anything with windowed mode.
is so advance that leaving it will disabled gaming mode in my TV even if i manually enabled it before.
setting the output type to movies in the GPU driver switches my TV into cinema preset(d80 whitepoint close panasonic close call...) and my TV even shows an notification. i didn't find a program that does trigger this in the GPU driver.

so madVR may trigger gaming mode in the nvidia driver which makes sense if you think about it.

Last edited by huhn; 5th February 2019 at 08:28.
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Old 5th February 2019, 11:46   #54590  |  Link
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
edit: madVR FSE is triggering "games" with FSE and i can't find anything with windowed mode.
is so advance that leaving it will disabled gaming mode in my TV even if i manually enabled it before.
setting the output type to movies in the GPU driver switches my TV into cinema preset(d80 whitepoint close panasonic close call...) and my TV even shows an notification. i didn't find a program that does trigger this in the GPU driver.

so madVR may trigger gaming mode in the nvidia driver which makes sense if you think about it.
Interesting finding, thanks, I'll try it out tonight with my old LG TV, maybe ...
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Old 5th February 2019, 13:01   #54591  |  Link
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Soulnight's tool increases or decreases the target nits. Increasing the target nits raises the knee point further up the PQ curve to reduce compression, but it also changes the absolute brightness of all values relative to the output display.
Actually what you are changing with the target peak nits parameter is the absolute (only relative to the mastering display luminances) value of the knee point, which affects all the values above it. After that, all the image values need to be normalized to the [0, 1] SDR relative range, which raises the global brightness. That's why I thought that the dynamic curves where doing the same, but after reading in more detail the specs this doesn't seem to be the case. For Dolby Vision the target luminances don't change, but for HDR10+ there is indeed a parameter called TargetedSystemDisplayActualPeakLuminance which is a 2D LUT that affects all values, and is intented to take into account the "peak luminance that a display is capable of delivering while rendering the scene", which "depends on the spatial distribution of the luminance levels of the pixels in the scene and the power consumption limits of the display".
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Old 5th February 2019, 15:23   #54592  |  Link
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I have no idea what that means. But the knee point is just the point on the original PQ curve where the tone mapping curve begins. Values above the knee point are rolled-off or reduced in brightness. The shape of the tone curve determines how much values are rolled-off. It isn't really magic. Each luminance value is lower than the original by an increasing amount up to the display peak.

Dolby Vision would just provide formulas for different displays to reduce the overall dynamic range of the source for each scene based on a content flag indicating the peak brightness of the scene. It probably wouldn't be that different than what madVR is already doing. Tone mapping uses pretty standard formulas. It just needs to know how bright the input is in order to compress it.

This is what a 700 nits tone curve might look like: https://i.postimg.cc/4NQWBHtC/PQ-Tone-Mapping-Curve.jpg

There is also an article here on tone curves: https://www.insightmedia.info/should...-the-pq-curve/

Last edited by Warner306; 5th February 2019 at 15:30.
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Old 5th February 2019, 17:13   #54593  |  Link
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Ha ha, I read that article yesterday, really.

I don't know what you didn't understand so I can't help, but as you said it isn't really magic. I've written a pixel shader implementing the curve, so I know how it works, and it's not very difficult to at least get an idea of the process by just looking at the maths.

https://www.itu.int/dms_pub/itu-r/op...2018-PDF-E.pdf

It only doesn't include the last scaling step.

Last edited by Alexkral; 6th February 2019 at 06:24.
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Old 5th February 2019, 17:44   #54594  |  Link
Warner306
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I've seen that. Honestly, to a lay person that article is just nonsense. Tone mapping intelligently compresses luminance. It doesn't do much more than that.

madVR is tone mapping in PQ nits as per BT.2390 to a target display brightness. But this has to be converted to an SDR gamma curve. The gamma curve should always provide an optimum result within its actual target brightness, but it is often better to use the relative gamma curve to spread out BT.2390 (go above the display target brightness) to get more contrast. Changing the target nits kind of makes the PQ curve disappear because the mapped values are no longer 1:1 with BT.2390 in terms of absolute luminance, but it works because the gamma curve increases or decreases overall contrast in a uniform manner.

Last edited by Warner306; 5th February 2019 at 17:56.
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Old 5th February 2019, 19:45   #54595  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
no clue.

edit: madVR FSE is triggering "games" with FSE and i can't find anything with windowed mode.
is so advance that leaving it will disabled gaming mode in my TV even if i manually enabled it before.
setting the output type to movies in the GPU driver switches my TV into cinema preset(d80 whitepoint close panasonic close call...) and my TV even shows an notification. i didn't find a program that does trigger this in the GPU driver.

so madVR may trigger gaming mode in the nvidia driver which makes sense if you think about it.
How do you find which one it triggers.

My setting box doesn't even have all those options,

I only have Movie, and Desktop Program
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Old 5th February 2019, 20:50   #54596  |  Link
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I also only have those two. Probably depends on what the display advertises, but my TV settings have the same ones listed here (they can be allowed or denied individually for use with the auto mode): https://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hd...tent_type.aspx

As with all 'automagic' features it can be difficult to find out what changes are applied and when.
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Old 5th February 2019, 21:26   #54597  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post
I only have Movie, and Desktop Program
It's the same here with my Tv, and the TV doesn't do anything different when I select any of those (using windowed mode)
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Old 6th February 2019, 00:44   #54598  |  Link
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Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post
How do you find which one it triggers.

My setting box doesn't even have all those options,

I only have Movie, and Desktop Program
you manually select all and see what changes in your TV setting.

it only cared about movie and games the rest did do anything at least i couldn't find it.

games option activates gaming mode on my screen.
and movies option switched my preset to cinema.

why photo or graphics doesn't change the preset to the graphic or photos i don't have a clue. if in doubt GPU driver bug.

with auto madVR will activated gaming mode in FSE so it has to be gaming.
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Old 7th February 2019, 12:18   #54599  |  Link
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Is the dithering in LAV video decoder the same process as in MadVR ? So could it be set to 'none' there ? Thx
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Old 7th February 2019, 12:25   #54600  |  Link
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Never turn off any dithering.
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