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Old 16th December 2020, 14:03   #8061  |  Link
huhn
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sorry i don't know what the xbox screenshoot function does so i can't judge screen shoots for HDR.

but i can do this for you
SDR madVR: https://abload.de/img/madvrmsk9y.jpg
SDR mpcVR: https://abload.de/img/mpcvr7hj57.jpg
so your new HLG bt.2020 to bt.709 doesn't seem to work correctly.

the madVR results is AFAIK correct for a SDR display.
SDR is BT709 (sRGB)

what madVR is doing is simple in theory.
it read the primary and then it compares it to the calibration setting.
if no calibration setting is set it defaults to BT 709 for SDR and BT 2020 for HDR passthrough.

if the primary is not matching with the "calibration setting" it will make it match. so in this case it sees BT 2020 from the file and it applies bt 2020 to bt 709 because of SDR.
your HDR -> SDR tonemapping does this too.

BT709 and sRGB are not 100 % the same but you can skip this topic no one really calibrates to sRGB(to those that do don't feel offended plz there are reasons to do that) but to BT709 they are very similar to.
sorry it's calibration is sadly never easy...

BTW. you could force HLG to SDR tonemapping it's "better" anyway.
HLG SDR with bt 2020 to bt 709 is more of compatibility thing it looks bad but that's how it should looks on a SDR screen...
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Old 16th December 2020, 14:34   #8062  |  Link
v0lt
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Expert help required.

MFVideoTransferMatrix
AVColorSpace
zimg_matrix_coefficients_e
Let's look at the parameters for BT.2020:
Code:
MFVideoTransferMatrix_BT2020_10
MFVideoTransferMatrix_BT2020_12

AVCOL_SPC_BT2020_NCL
AVCOL_SPC_BT2020_CL

ZIMG_MATRIX_BT2020_NCL
ZIMG_MATRIX_BT2020_CL
How do I correctly map MFVideoTransferMatrix to AVColorSpace (or zimg_matrix_coefficients_e)?

MFVideoTransferFunction
AVColorTransferCharacteristic
zimg_transfer_characteristics_e
Let's look at the parameters for BT.2020:
Code:
MFVideoTransFunc_2020_const
MFVideoTransFunc_2020

AVCOL_TRC_BT2020_10
AVCOL_TRC_BT2020_12

ZIMG_TRANSFER_BT2020_10
ZIMG_TRANSFER_BT2020_12
How do I correctly map MFVideoTransferFunction to AVColorTransferCharacteristic (or zimg_transfer_characteristics_e)?

MicroSoft confused TransferMatrix and TransferFunction?
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Old 16th December 2020, 14:43   #8063  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
sorry i don't know what the xbox screenshoot function does so i can't judge screen shoots for HDR.

but i can do this for you
SDR madVR: https://abload.de/img/madvrmsk9y.jpg
SDR mpcVR: https://abload.de/img/mpcvr7hj57.jpg
so your new HLG bt.2020 to bt.709 doesn't seem to work correctly.

the madVR results is AFAIK correct for a SDR display.
SDR is BT709 (sRGB)

what madVR is doing is simple in theory.
it read the primary and then it compares it to the calibration setting.
if no calibration setting is set it defaults to BT 709 for SDR and BT 2020 for HDR passthrough.

if the primary is not matching with the "calibration setting" it will make it match. so in this case it sees BT 2020 from the file and it applies bt 2020 to bt 709 because of SDR.
your HDR -> SDR tonemapping does this too.

BT709 and sRGB are not 100 % the same but you can skip this topic no one really calibrates to sRGB(to those that do don't feel offended plz there are reasons to do that) but to BT709 they are very similar to.
sorry it's calibration is sadly never easy...

BTW. you could force HLG to SDR tonemapping it's "better" anyway.
HLG SDR with bt 2020 to bt 709 is more of compatibility thing it looks bad but that's how it should looks on a SDR screen...
You need compare with my screenshot, in current version of MPC VR no bt.2020 to bt.709 conversion.
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Old 16th December 2020, 15:24   #8064  |  Link
huhn
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this https://i.imgur.com/l99tCrd.jpg is not correct sdr bt 709. it should look like this: https://abload.de/img/madvrmsk9y.jpg

just take the red in the top left corner.
for HDR -> SDR tone mapping there is a lot of freedom i can't 100 % say it wrong or right.
even the source doesn't seem to be mastered in a way that they should look alike:
it say in HDR10 M03 750 nits
it says in HLG M03 75% grey.
i don't know what 75% grey means is it a linear image that would be 750 nits.
HLG 75% of 1024 range ~767 that's not 750 nits.

HLG as HDR seems fine
HDR passthrough seems fine
both tone mapping of HLG and HDR 10 seems fine
but HLG SDR bt2020 to bt709 is obviously wrong even in your new screenshoot.

@volt they all 3 seem to be the same.
and that'S all i can provide i don't know the difference between bt2020_10 and bt2020_12 same for MFVideoTransFunc_2020_const MFVideoTransFunc_2020.
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Old 16th December 2020, 17:58   #8065  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chros View Post
And doesn't mpc-be internal video decoder support d3d11-native using hevc? Only dxva2-copyback?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleksoid1978 View Post
Only DXVA2 Native
I just noticed that I have brutal tearing with:
- LAV Video set to d3d11-native
- mpcVR set to "Use Derect3D 11" and Swap effect is set to "Flip" (there's with "Discard" as well, but not that brutal)

Now, if I set one of the following the tearing goes away:
- LAV Video set to d3d11-copyback
- uncheck "Use Derect3D 11" in mpcVR (LAV Video falls back to d3d11-copyback)

Does it mean that mpcVR doesn't support d3d11-native at all? I haven't noticed this before ...
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Old 16th December 2020, 18:21   #8066  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klaus1189 View Post
I just tried EVR CP Renderer again after long time and I don't know which settings I need to get rid of these stutters, which are also protocolled by EVR stats graph. I does't matter if I use internal filters or LAV Filters. Tried to disable DXVA2 and tried various DXVA2 settings of LAV. I also tried different renderer settings and VSync options. But no luck.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hec...ew?usp=sharing
I did some more testing and I have created a videofile without audio, so copyright should not be an issue.

Just play this 60p file with CVR custom and stock settings and you will get this jerky playback. I checkd EVR cutom statictics in Filters menu and it reports a lot of dropped frames. If I did something wrong, please let me know what settings I need to tweak.
I must add I am on a Nvidia RTX30 card now. But AMD RX 5700XT is still here.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pDj...ew?usp=sharing
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Old 16th December 2020, 18:57   #8067  |  Link
v0lt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chros View Post
I just noticed that I have brutal tearing with:
- LAV Video set to d3d11-native
- mpcVR set to "Use Derect3D 11" and Swap effect is set to "Flip" (there's with "Discard" as well, but not that brutal)

Now, if I set one of the following the tearing goes away:
- LAV Video set to d3d11-copyback
- uncheck "Use Derect3D 11" in mpcVR (LAV Video falls back to d3d11-copyback)
Tearing?
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Old 16th December 2020, 19:12   #8068  |  Link
v0lt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klaus1189 View Post
Just play this 60p file with CVR custom and stock settings and you will get this jerky playback. I checkd EVR cutom statictics in Filters menu and it reports a lot of dropped frames. If I did something wrong, please let me know what settings I need to tweak.
I must add I am on a Nvidia RTX30 card now. But AMD RX 5700XT is still here.
I did not notice any major problems with this video (although it seemed to me that the graph is moving smoothly). Perhaps a larger display is needed.

I can advise you to check the "Video" and "Frame synchronization" settings, as well as make a frame with active statistics (Ctrl+J). You can also try turning VSync (V) on/off and using the exclusive full screen.
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Old 16th December 2020, 19:27   #8069  |  Link
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Statistics (Ctrl+J) show that frames are dropped. I also tried all possible combinations of VSync options built into MPC-BE. While playing back the file I rightclick menu and open filter list and click on CVR CP and then on the second it lists the dropped frames which grow fast.

If I turn on Tearing Test and use it for "smooth test" and you can clearly see that I get dropped frames because the double red line jumps during that drop.

I tried madVR and also MPC Video Renderer. Both are fine to my eyes and also no dropped frames are reported. So I encounter that issue only on EVR CP. I want that basic renderer be also fine.

I created a second sample file, which is now AVC, but also 60p. Also here Audio removed for copyright issues:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1orp...ew?usp=sharing
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Old 16th December 2020, 19:37   #8070  |  Link
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Updated german translation - little cosmetic change: more consistent
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Old 16th December 2020, 20:06   #8071  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v0lt View Post
Yes, and brutal stuttering as well even with SDR (1080p/2160p) content

Here's the interesting part: it works fine at 59Hz!!! (even with 23p/25p videos)
Issue happens if I set the TV (in Windows adapter settings) to:
- 23Hz with 23p video
- 25Hz with 25p video

I have 2 displays connected to the HTPC:
- monitor via DVI (only supports 60Hz, so I can't try it on this)
- TV via HDMI (supports 23/24/25/29/30/50/59/60Hz)

Something is not right. And as I said this only happens when Lav Video is set to d3d11-native and d3d11 output is enabled in mpcVR (more visible with "Flip" presentation).
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Old 16th December 2020, 23:22   #8072  |  Link
Aleksoid1978
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chros View Post
Yes, and brutal stuttering as well even with SDR (1080p/2160p) content

Here's the interesting part: it works fine at 59Hz!!! (even with 23p/25p videos)
Issue happens if I set the TV (in Windows adapter settings) to:
- 23Hz with 23p video
- 25Hz with 25p video

I have 2 displays connected to the HTPC:
- monitor via DVI (only supports 60Hz, so I can't try it on this)
- TV via HDMI (supports 23/24/25/29/30/50/59/60Hz)

Something is not right. And as I said this only happens when Lav Video is set to d3d11-native and d3d11 output is enabled in mpcVR (more visible with "Flip" presentation).
Can you record video with statistics ?
Do you try in fullscreen exclusive ?
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Last edited by Aleksoid1978; 16th December 2020 at 23:46.
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Old 16th December 2020, 23:25   #8073  |  Link
Aleksoid1978
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klaus1189 View Post
Statistics (Ctrl+J) show that frames are dropped. I also tried all possible combinations of VSync options built into MPC-BE. While playing back the file I rightclick menu and open filter list and click on CVR CP and then on the second it lists the dropped frames which grow fast.

If I turn on Tearing Test and use it for "smooth test" and you can clearly see that I get dropped frames because the double red line jumps during that drop.

I tried madVR and also MPC Video Renderer. Both are fine to my eyes and also no dropped frames are reported. So I encounter that issue only on EVR CP. I want that basic renderer be also fine.

I created a second sample file, which is now AVC, but also 60p. Also here Audio removed for copyright issues:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1orp...ew?usp=sharing
Check you video - perfect playback(test in window and fullscreen exclusive).

P.S. Try reset settings, try in fullscreen exclusive.
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Last edited by Aleksoid1978; 16th December 2020 at 23:46.
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Old 16th December 2020, 23:26   #8074  |  Link
Aleksoid1978
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
this https://i.imgur.com/l99tCrd.jpg is not correct sdr bt 709. it should look like this: https://abload.de/img/madvrmsk9y.jpg

just take the red in the top left corner.
for HDR -> SDR tone mapping there is a lot of freedom i can't 100 % say it wrong or right.
even the source doesn't seem to be mastered in a way that they should look alike:
it say in HDR10 M03 750 nits
it says in HLG M03 75% grey.
i don't know what 75% grey means is it a linear image that would be 750 nits.
HLG 75% of 1024 range ~767 that's not 750 nits.

HLG as HDR seems fine
HDR passthrough seems fine
both tone mapping of HLG and HDR 10 seems fine
but HLG SDR bt2020 to bt709 is obviously wrong even in your new screenshoot.
Ok, so my algorithm is inaccurate or incomplete.
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Old 18th December 2020, 11:05   #8075  |  Link
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MPCVideoRenderer-v0.4.10.1553_git2020.12.18-73a6d82

I am thinking of removing the "Convert to SDR" feature for HLG. It gives practically nothing. HLG is compatible with SDR displays.

added:
mpcvr_1553_hdr_stats_1
Test build with dimmed statistics for displays in HDR mode.

Last edited by v0lt; 18th December 2020 at 11:28.
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Old 18th December 2020, 13:53   #8076  |  Link
VictorLS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v0lt View Post
I am thinking of removing the "Convert to SDR" feature for HLG. It gives practically nothing. HLG is compatible with SDR displays.
I like to switch off "Convert to SDR" to test how looks HLG video on my SDR monitor without any processing with MPC Video Renderer avoiding switching to i.e. ordinary EVR.
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Old 18th December 2020, 15:35   #8077  |  Link
huhn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v0lt View Post
MPCVideoRenderer-v0.4.10.1553_git2020.12.18-73a6d82

I am thinking of removing the "Convert to SDR" feature for HLG. It gives practically nothing. HLG is compatible with SDR displays.

added:
mpcvr_1553_hdr_stats_1
Test build with dimmed statistics for displays in HDR mode.
while you are 100 % correct that HLG can be watched with SDR but is not really correct it's just a fallback with tone mapping more of the HLG range can be shown accurately just like HDR. the problem is currently there is no selection for the peak brightness.
the calibrated peak brightness for SDR is 100/120 depending on who you ask while screens in SDR mode are often far over that that's why madVR has a control over the brightness you define that here (i guess):
#define DISPLAY_LUMINANCE_PEAK 125.0
https://github.com/Aleksoid1978/Vide...pq_to_sdr.hlsl

i have no clue if your algorithm is able to deal correctly with higher peak brightness but madVR defaults to 200 and it's worth a try.
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Old 18th December 2020, 16:19   #8078  |  Link
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If you do allow a higher target nit value, then please make it an configurable option.
There are a lot of people who have set their screen to a much lower brightness that its maximum. In that case 200 nits gives a too dark result.
It could be a simple dropdown with values 100/125/150/175/200.
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Old 18th December 2020, 16:32   #8079  |  Link
huhn
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leave it at 100/120 or make it an option.

the usually user has a guessed brightness range of 100-400. the 400 nits user should be pretty rare in comparison to a 200 nits user.
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Old 18th December 2020, 19:29   #8080  |  Link
chros
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleksoid1978 View Post
Can you record video with statistics ?
Do you try in fullscreen exclusive ?
Same with fullscreen exclusive. There's nothing on the stats screen.
But I could recreate it on my monitor as well:
it seems the problem only occurs when fps = display Hz or really close to it (59p on 60Hz)!
So, to try to reproduce it, play back:
- 1080p/2160p 59p SDR video on monitor @ 60Hz
- set LAV Video to d3d11 native (not copyback)
- set mpcVR to d3d11 and set Flip presentation
- it happens in window or fullscreen too

Can anyone reproduce this crazy stutter?
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