Windows 7, x264, and Media Center Extenders

[Crono141]

Well, the windows 7 beta was "officially" unleashed upon the public on Friday. Windows 7 promises integrated support for h264 content. Additionally, it claims to be able to send that same h264 content to media center extenders natively, without the need of third party transcoding programs such as transcode360 or TVersity.

Well, I've been testing at these claims and so far I'm disappointed. It seems that Divx and Xvid do come across the MCE without need of a third party transcoder. I even managed to get a h264 file with 2 channel AAC audio to play without a hitch.

Unfortunately, I haven't figured out how to get a 5.1 stream to the extenders. I tried h264 with AC3 in m2ts, but that didn't go at all. It seems Win7 only really like h264 in the mp4 container, and then only with AAC 2 channel.

Has anyone had a chance to play with this yet besides me? Has anyone had any success with multichannel h264 on media center extenders?

[Atak_Snajpera]

It seems Win7 only really like h264 in the mp4 container, and then only with AAC 2 channel.

The sane story with XBox360. only mp4 with stereo

[Crono141]

I guess I should clarify: I can get h264 with multichannel to play on the PC in WMC and WMP12(?), but the extender only likes 2 channel audio. I'm currently encoding a movie with a max width of 640, because I heard a rumor somewhere on these internets that 640 is the maximum width the extender supports for h264. After that i'll try to encode standard width with 2 channel audio and see if that plays. If so, I'll be quite disappointed, because whats the point of h264 2 channel support with no 5 channel support?

The whole reason I'm going through this again, is because I recently acquired a PS3, and it playes H264 with AC3, H264 with multichannel AAC, and just about anything in between. I'd like to be able to rip my DVDs to a universal format that plays on the 360 and the PS3 so I don't have to go and buy more PS3 or similar devices to get maximum compatibility (I already have 2 Xbox360s).

[Jeff Flowerday]

I can't get h264 to play from a mkv container.

I installed haali splitter and madflac. vc1, mpeg2 play fine, h264 not at all.

[Atak_Snajpera]

but the extender only likes 2 channel audio.

The sane story with XBox360. only mp4 with stereo

Forced compatibilty with Microsoft's console ... Do you understand now?

[Crono141]

I understood before. I just realized what I'd said was not what I'd meant and wanted to clarify.

This Most recent encode didn't work either. Its odd, because the error isn't "incompatible format or codec" but "files required to play not found, restart extender or computer".

[R3Z]

Originally Posted by Atak_Snajpera

Forced compatibilty with Microsoft's console ... Do you understand now?

Microsoft gave an inch when asked to give a Mile.

[CruNcher]

The only full Interoperable solution you will be happy with as a Microsoft Customer is WMV and Windows Media Audio 5.1 Channel sound unless Million of Microsoft Customers write to them and force them to support 5.1 AAC
That is reallity they try to force you to use their stuff the options you have are limited either throw away their Hardware or Fight for it supporting more formats then their own in a interoperable way

[Ronin-7]

I've had some success with Win7 Beta1 64-bit and the Xbox MCX

Everything was encoded with Ripbot264 and I was able to play
H.264 High Profile M2TS with AC3 5.1 (played a 1080p video too but its a bit buggy)

H.264 High Profile MP4 with AAC HE or AAC LC (2 channel)

It would not play the AAC 5.1 Ripbot264 created though it played fine in WMP12 and Win7 media center. There is supposed to be a transcoder built in to help when media does not play I'm guessing its not working in beta 1.

However some test AAC-HE/LC MP4 videos I made using XviD4PSP caused the Xbox MCX to freak out and stop all video playback until it was restarted.

I also tried some videos encoded from Nero v8 and only the MP4 with 2 channel audio would play the AAC 5.1 and AC3 from Nero would not in the Xbox MCX (Nero's AAC 5.1 plays fine in WMP12/WMC and the AC3 MP4 plays video but no audio)

Overall it sorta works but its pretty buggy, obviously given its beta 1 status. Try Ripbot264 Crono141 if you want to get some videos working.

As far as I can tell the Xbox dash is still the same though the M2TS/MP4 videos now show if streaming from WMP12 but its still H.264/AAC-LC in MP4 only.

[Crono141]

I'll have to try RipBot264. I made several h264\AC3 rips, and I couldn't get them to play in Win7 at all (wmc or wmp12). I used autoMKV for my conversion though. My next idea was to create an mp4 with 2 audio tracks. The first being 2 channel AAC for wmc compatibility, the other AAC 5.1 for ps3 playback. I've already walked the WMV5.1 road, and now I have a hdd full of movies that don't look quite as good as dvd, and no audio on ps3.

[clsid]

The H.264 decoder of Windows7 only works in WMP12/MC (since it uses Media Foundation instead of DirectShow/DMO) and only for MP4/MOV files.

So for MKV files you still need ffdshow/coreavc/divx to decode the video.

MPEG-4 decoding does work in other DirectShow players since that is a DMO decoder.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Originally Posted by clsid

The H.264 decoder of Windows7 only works in WMP12/MC (since it uses Media Foundation instead of DirectShow/DMO) and only for MP4/MOV files.

Oh why, oh why, did they cripple H.264 support in that bad way?

It basically means that Windows 7 still doesn't support any useful video format natively (in a useful way). What a bummer!

Would it be so hard to include ffdshow in their 3,2 GB installer image?

[qyqgpower]

So now it's maybe a chance to develop a media foundation (and keeps directshow compatibility) based player for power user
Since both vista and 7 have the infrastructure of media foundation (don't know XP with the dot net runtime)

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Originally Posted by qyqgpower

So now it's maybe a chance to develop a media foundation (and keeps directshow compatibility) based player for power user
Since both vista and 7 have the infrastructure of media foundation (don't know XP with the dot net runtime)

What is MediaFoundation good for? What does it do better than DirectShow?

Since it's obviously based on the .NET Framework, Codecs will be either sloooow or implemented as "unmanaged" code. In the latter case one could implement a DirectShow from the very beginning...

So is it just another lousy attempt to get XP users to switch over to Vista or Win7, just like DirectX 10 ???


[EDIT]

There you got it, I was right:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

For some time there will be a co-existence of Media Foundation and DirectShow. Media Foundation will not be available for previous Windows versions, including Windows XP.

Another (useless) attempt of blackmail ...

[CruNcher]

Though Media Foundation isn't a bad move it is needed to get finaly away from all Problems Dshow brought upon Windows User/Devs

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Originally Posted by CruNcher

it is needed to get finaly away from all Problems Dshow brought upon Windows User/Devs

Any examples?

[CruNcher]

Sure it's main reason is better content Protection but Windows users will have to accept that sooner or later Content won't be available anymore for Window XP that won't happen today or tomorrow but sometime in the not so distant future.
Sure one thing that stresses me about being a XP user is IO prioritizing and the Video Handling for example you have a Game that uses Dshow in XP for showing it's Cutscenes and in the Background you have a application running that is doing some stuff on your HardDrive IO it won't happen anymore starting with the Vista Kernel and the MultiMedia Scheduler that this Background activity disturbs your Video watching experience (especially if you also use dynamic clock switching eg PowerSave Modes).
Not many user actually realize that but Process Priority Handling is much better since the Vista Kernel also EVR and Media Foundation doing it's parts here by keeping the playback steady and Glitch Free and in a better quality, another important thing is you can use DXVA outside of the Directshow Framework (though their are already ways coming up for XP for certain Formats to do that outside and being Renderer independent).

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Originally Posted by CruNcher

Sure it's main reason is better content Protection but Windows users will have to accept that sooner or later Content won't be available anymore for Window XP that won't happen today or tomorrow but sometime in the not so distant future.

That's not a reason for MediaFoundation, but a strong reason against it! (form the user's perspective, of course)

Also many online stores are moving away from DRM infected files now, as they have realized that customers don't accept all the restrictions the industry tries to put on them

So it seems M$ has missed the trend once again ...

[CruNcher]

LoRd_MuldeR only the current DRM age failed you have no idea whats cooking up in the Labs of the Big Hardware Players and Microsoft is just preparing for that and actively working on it. In the not so distant future even your Network will realize you trying to transfer copyrighted content to where it doesn't belong without rights for this transaction, tough people wont realize that those systems will be brough upon them anymore they will just accept them .
Do you really believe we could stop TPM ? it's waiting to get active in every new PC these days just that the switch get pulled and it will do it's Protection work for the Industry, it's just sleeping and waits for the right moment and what do they have to fear with all those .NET coders these days anyways .

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Originally Posted by CruNcher

Do you really believe we could stop TPM ?

Yes, we can stop DRM easily. Don't buy DRM infected media, use OpenSource software and that's it

Also a TPM itself isn't a bad thing at all. It was specified by the Trusted Computing Group to improve the security of operating systems.
DRM is only one application out of many. There are various beneficial applications of a TPM.

But I think we are getting a bit off-topic here...